Long story short... my sami uses (or leaks possibly) oil and water and smokes quite a bit.  I pulled head to check the head gasket and couldn't really tell if was allowing leakage as oil leaked through the stud holes in the head as i removed it and kinda ruined my initial look.  I also feel like the oil is super "runny" when i drained it. I added some of the used oil into a clear glass but couldn't see any water?

So aside from that, here is what my piston walls look like:

Rear 2 pistons



Front 2





...not sure what to make of the discoloration (rust?). Also, wiith the pistons at TDC i can slightly move them.  Is this normal? I dont remember any play before (less than 300miles on engine but many many hours)  I have heard rebuilding/over-boring these bottom ends can lead to the pistons "walking" at the tops of the block (cant remember the term).

I have a few other dynamics to cause my smoking issue.  A used T25 turbo that possibly seeps oil and needs rebuilt.  The smoke I get is light colored, dissipates fast.  I have done a lot of trial/error (low RPM under load, high RPM and no load etc) and there isn't much consistency. 

I just want to be more safe then sorry.  The engine runs like a damn banshee at 7psi  ..i just want to be pro-active with the $1500 in short block rebuild cost. TIA for any input

How did the plugs look? Would think the rusty one's the coolant burning one if plug is not carboned and is cleanish? And you running water, or coolant mix?

Super runny- still, hours later? Maybe gas got by rings in sloppy one? what weight?

The pistons have to be loose at the top or they would seize up, at the bottom of the skirts are where they get tighter, what kind of rings did you use and did you break the engine in before adding boost?

How did the plugs look? Would think the rusty one's the coolant burning one if plug is not carboned and is cleanish? And you running water, or coolant mix?

Super runny- still, hours later? Maybe gas got by rings in sloppy one? what weight?

The plugs seemed to be fairly uniform.  Just water at this point (Florida) as i have needed to re solder a pin hole on the radiator a time or two along with pulling the head a few times. 

Well the oil doesn't smell like "gas".  I have some other used oil from our dodge and it seems somewhat thicker.  No scientific method... just kinda feels too runny. 10w30 weight.

The pistons have to be loose at the top or they would seize up, at the bottom of the skirts are where they get tighter, what kind of rings did you use and did you break the engine in before adding boost?

Makes sense.

DNJ/Rock 50mm.  Yeah I had the engine running long before the turbo... although I was not able to do a proper break in.  The motor was rebuild, installed, then i had to get it running with megasquirt.  There was lots of cranking, short starts, rich conditions etc before I finally dialed it all in.  Hind-sight, I should have ran the motor first... I just didn't have that option with no stock ECU/harness or carb setup.

Pre-turbo... it smoked but not as much.  Another difference is i ran my last head dry (installed it 180) and I am using an older non-rebuild head.  I didn't get a lot of time to look things over last night.  I plan to look the head over today.

I have to do/order:
new ARP head stud nuts (2 are looking a tad stripped)
install my ML gasket this time (vs the cheap one on now)
rebuild turbo
reseal small leak at oil pan

Anything else I should add to the list?  Should i have my head 3 angled and swap all my new seals/valves over from my wrecked head?  Kinda wanna get it all done since I am torn apart.

I have heard rebuilding/over-boring these bottom ends can lead to the pistons "walking" at the tops of the block (cant remember the term).

Even if you don't remember the term - perhaps you could explain or may be describe it?

I've heard of "cylinder walk" on the 1.3 - a sideways movement near the top that can cause gasket failure, but only under high boost levels, and as a result of it's open deck construction, I'm not certain if this is a concern on the 1.6 - one of the fixes on the 1.3 is to "O-ring" the cylinders - it doesn't cure the walk, but it apparently reduces it enough to prevent gasket failure.

If you want more information on this check either the Redline GTI or Teamswift websites.

Quote from: zuki1018 on June 18, 2012, 07:19:50 PM

I have heard rebuilding/over-boring these bottom ends can lead to the pistons "walking" at the tops of the block (cant remember the term).

Even if you don't remember the term - perhaps you could explain or may be describe it?

I've heard of "cylinder walk" on the 1.3 - a sideways movement near the top that can cause gasket failure, but only under high boost levels, and as a result of it's open deck construction, I'm not certain if this is a concern on the 1.6 - one of the fixes on the 1.3 is to "O-ring" the cylinders - it doesn't cure the walk, but it apparently reduces it enough to prevent gasket failure.

If you want more information on this check either the Redline GTI or Teamswift websites.

Flowering or mushrooming... something funny like that.  Basically like you describe... I just remember someone calling it a coined phrase. Read about it a long time ago... coulda been on the 1.3's more so like you mention.  I feel more comfortable about the slight piston movement at the tops of the bores based on mrfuelishs' comment.

Zuki1018,
It really looks like you glazed the cylinders on that engine due to a very rich condition before the rings could seat, the discolored cylinders are evidence of that. I know that isn't what you want to hear but just from what I can see from the pictures, I would bet money that is it. You will need to hone the cylinders and re-ring it to make it right. I took another look at the pictures and you can see the weird color and some shiny areas in the cylinders, it needs to come apart. I'm sorry for your misfortune, hindsight is 20/20. Good luck in getting that fixed and sure hope I'm wrong!

I really appreciate your help with my megasquirt project, I haven't had a chance to put it in yet! Today should be the day!

Kj

Zuki1018,
It really looks like you glazed the cylinders on that engine due to a very rich condition before the rings could seat, the discolored cylinders are evidence of that. I know that isn't what you want to hear but just from what I can see from the pictures, I would bet money that is it. You will need to hone the cylinders and re-ring it to make it right. I took another look at the pictures and you can see the weird color and some shiny areas in the cylinders, it needs to come apart. I'm sorry for your misfortune, hindsight is 20/20. Good luck in getting that fixed and sure hope I'm wrong!

I really appreciate your help with my megasquirt project, I haven't had a chance to put it in yet! Today should be the day!

Kj

Well that jives with things.  I was definitely super rich early-on after the rebuild.  I fouled plugs left and right for a short period... which is what led me to install the wideband 02.

So a new set of rings would be in order.  How do you feel about the hones that attach to a drill? I've heard bad stuff about them.  I cannot complain about my own oversights! lol  Its all been a learning curve from day 1. 

Yeah I cant wait to hear how the MS runs for you!

To me it looks quite badly scored at the top of the cylinders, if those scores have any depth then it will need reboring and new oversize pistons. If you've waqshed the oil opff the bores then condensation may have caused some discolouring due to rust vut I wouldn't have thought that would be anything to worry about.

I see glazing and scoring on the walls and the gasket between cylinders 2 and 3 looks very funky, like it was leaking.

 I would break it down, check all the bearings, rehone (if possible), gap and install new rings, install a new oil pump.

I know u guys cant fully see what i see based on these pix. The score marks are cross hashes from the orig. rebuild... which i had to oversize .20. With that being said... there are noticeable smoother areas opposite of one another.. driver/pass sides right in the center.

I have a multi layer head gasket and a turbo rebuild being shipped. I am going to "loosely" gamble that its a combo of one/both causing my smoke/leaks. Prior to killing my last head... and pre-turbo... the engine didn't smoke much at all as best as i can remember.  I starved my rebuilt head for oil.. which lead me to installing a used and stock unit (also could be a leak contributor) and I used a cheap gasket.... then added a used turbo. 

Thanks for all the info.  I am going to give the gasket and turbo rebuild a shot as step 1. I know the turbo needs it anyway. I will post results once everything is back in.