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TBI intake

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2011, 07:11:05 PM »
keep in mind that the factory has to build vehicles to safely opperate under all conciveable conditions. The intake warm up system is designed so the throttle plate does not freeze open in cold climates.....Now, i know that most of you are laughing, thinking i could drive with a brick on the accellerator pedal full time. But, as you can see a stuck open throttle could be a safety issue.
Some models even have a heater for the PCV valve as well.

Now, my opinion if you are like me and looking for as many ponies as possible......listed by order of expense
he left

advance the ignition timing to a very light ping. later models need a connector jumped to get a accurate reading (need help ask) The low compression engine will accept more advance.

Remove the left front fender inner fender well. Remove all the intake air ducting from inside the fender well. Reinstall the inner fender liner. Remove air cleaner lid and air cleaner. Using a 1/4 " drill bit drill a hole in the air cleaner base with the holes being 1 inch on center apart. Reinstall the air cleaner and housing top.

Add a header and 2 " cat back exhaust

convert to a 16 valve engine



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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2011, 05:59:13 AM »
I'm hoping (note, said hoping) for 1 hr per cubic inch.   lol.   we will see though.  my motorcycle had a bigger motor than this. lol.  But I hope with a good ported head, ported intake, tbi spacer, ceramic coated pistons, chamber and exhaust ports, higher compression I can get that.  I will design and build a new intake manifold to see if it helps this engine.  after all, it is only 97 ci.  but the intake comes after I build and install the engine.  my current one is about dead and its my daily.

I gotta say this - tictac - you're a good sport.  I've seen guys get really pissed off when ragged on.

Don't let any of us discourage you, I think your 1 hp/ci goal is definitely acheivable.

Oh - you might want skip drilling those holes in the air cleaner base - not only will they let in hot air from the engine bay, if you go off road they will probably let water in as well.

And whilst I'm about it - zukwrench - I think we were discussing the water heated intake manifold - that's after the TBI so it's not going to prevent icing around the throttle plate.
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Offline talonxracer

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2011, 06:26:01 AM »
The heated intake mani is a low tech/cost attempt at maintaining a steady higher operating temp cleaning up the emissions(keeps the EGR port clean), and it most certainly downgrades the available horsepower. 30 years of machining and building engines has left a few tidbits of experience with this, the issue with gaining power with a CAI on the FI 1.6L 8-16v engines is entirely in the ECU. Add in a piggyback AFC and you will start seeing gains. When the throttle goes past a cruise setting the ECU exits closed loop operation and enters open loop and runs entirely off the calibration and does not use the short term fuel trim and ANY increase in air will cause the A/F to go real lean and loose significant power.

Cold air intake should be called a cooler air intake

I have a 98' Sidekick JX with the 1.6L and the intake pipe is ENTIRELY plastic, the plastic DOES not retain or transmitt the heat nearly as intensely as the older cast aluminum, so the absurd idea that the placement of the intake pipe over the exhaust mani is an intentional heat creator is busted, it is merely a open convenient route for the intake pipe.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 06:41:34 AM by talonxracer »
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2011, 07:51:33 AM »
Ya, when my Kick was a new Trucklet I was looking for more power and
one of the first things I did was to drill the filter box, guys with motorcycles
did it and claimed it helped so I thought I would give it a try.

Results, no power increase and more throttle noise in the cab when driving,
the stock ducting to the filter is fine and I don't think there is any significant
restriction in that system.

I replaced my old filter box with another one for dirt control, I never really
was worried about water in the filter housing it was higher than the intake
tubing, and if I'm that deep in water I have more pressing things to be worried
about   ;)

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2011, 12:27:35 PM »
You will get more power from reducing the intake temperature. Its actually directly proportional, so a 10% reduction in IAT will give you 10% more power but its proportional to degrees kelvin so you need to reduce IAT by around 30C to get a 10% increase which is probably not very practical.
I had a good look at the intake piping a few years ago and concluded that the whole thing is designed to have a cross-sectional area roughly equivalent to a 45mm dia hole, to get any improvement you would have to replace all of it including the throttle body which doesn't have any spare metal at the top to allow it to be bored out.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 12:30:05 PM by Rhinoman »
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Offline tictac

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2011, 03:33:18 PM »
I know a new intake manifold will help this motor.  I have built and designed several for nissians, turbo dodges, mitsubishi.  everyone worked good.  but I tested with flow bench and ultimately on the car as u dont race the flow bench.  the designers of this motor had a tight budget to work with im sure.  as do they all.  I am not discouraged in the least about getting ragged on.  I laugh at it because most of u dont know my background.  I have been building performance engines and porting heads, making intakes, ect since 1990.  have quite a bit of experience and seem to be drawn to odd ball cars that mainstream people disreguard.  these little trucklets are amazing for what they are.  im impressed with what I have seen in this motor tearing it down.  oil squirters, full floating wrist pins, a type of crank girdle.  pretty impressive.
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Offline Jluck

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2011, 03:48:11 PM »
I personally like a challenge when people doubt. If nobody ever tried mods/changes no progress would ever happen. I know any of the earlier posts were just adding comedic value, not doubting you or your ability. I look forward to watching your progress.

and its just fun to point out some of the 1000 HP adding 20 dollar eBay items. unfortunately people fall for these scams on the regular. ::)
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Offline bentparts

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2011, 06:06:53 PM »
I'm hoping (note, said hoping) for 1 hr per cubic inch.   lol.   we will see though.  my motorcycle had a bigger motor than this. lol.  But I hope with a good ported head, ported intake, tbi spacer, ceramic coated pistons, chamber and exhaust ports, higher compression I can get that.  I will design and build a new intake manifold to see if it helps this engine.  after all, it is only 97 ci.  but the intake comes after I build and install the engine.  my current one is about dead and its my daily.

When I built the engine for my Harley bagger years ago I had a goal of 1hp per CI. Using stock bore and stroke =80 CI, just good heads with bigger valves and better port design, cam, intake and exhaust , ( still carburated Mikuni 42mm flatslide) ignition, and forged higher compression pistons ( 9.7 to 1 ) the standard hot rod stuff, I got 81hp and 79 ft lbs. DO IT! It can be done and with your background and skills I'm sure you can do it. Oh, one more thing, since I didn't want to go bigger bore or stroke, the only other way to get more power is to spin it higher. Stock redline for a Harley motor is 5300, with my built lightweight valve train,  I now redline at 6600. 
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Offline tictac

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2011, 07:52:47 PM »
thats the first harley motor ive seen that made more hp than tq!  I ported a set of heads for an 883 before.  im pretty confident that I will get my hp goal or close to it.  who knows, may even exceed it.   ;)
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Offline bentparts

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2011, 06:44:45 AM »
Yeah, most HD engines are closer to Diesel's when it comes to powerbands, and most guys ride 'em that way, chug chug chug. Me, I like to spin 'em too. Nothing like a big v twin wound up to redline, and they are actually smoother when spun up a bit more. Man I love talking about making HP out of little motors! Weeeee! ;D
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2011, 08:56:19 AM »
When you doing the turbo on the Harley?  >:D
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Offline djlantis57

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2011, 02:11:26 AM »
When you doing the turbo on the Harley?  >:D
He might have to make it a trike to get the power to the ground. Or have lots of spare rear tires 8)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 02:14:13 AM by djlantis57 »
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Offline Jluck

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2011, 05:56:41 AM »
I know a guy (kinda a friend I guess) who has a blown Harley. theres a small roots type supercharger where the OE gas tank was. its scary fast.
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Offline bentparts

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2011, 06:44:31 AM »
When you doing the turbo on the Harley?  >:D

I've got another new center section for my turbo stored for a spare, if I had the whole unit I might have tried it. But hey it's a bagger, it's plenty fast enough, especially in the corners!  It would be fun to build one though. A friend of a friend did build a blow through turbo system for his Harley and it worked, for awhile, till he melted his pistons.  ;D
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: TBI intake
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2011, 11:14:51 AM »
A little turbo off of a 1.0 turbo Sprint would fit nicely, of coarse
you got to tune for the boost so you don't get melted parts
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And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

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