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Pics of Zaggys Engine

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Offline Natebert

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2005, 06:15:00 PM »
I bet the idea of 'fuel economy' when modifying a motor like that is totally out of the question...


8)
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Offline wildchild1066

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2005, 04:54:35 AM »
nice work    ;D
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Offline zaggy

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2005, 02:00:17 PM »
Ok guys are you ready

    Busted my buns all weekend and got the new cam installed. Got tired of messing back and forth so mounted the whole mess on the aircraft I've been working on. (No it will come off after testing is all finished).
    The new cam has 28 degrees more duration and .065 more lift. Total 228 duration/.415 lift advertised

Results
- Idles lopey at 1100 rpm
- Max rpm 5900rpm loaded with prop |removethispart|@ 17-18 degrees
 pitch. (about 56" according to the chart)
- Works out to a prop rpm of 2657

    Working it back from other known certified combinations (Rotax 912S 100hp) this is approx 114 hp |removethispart|@ 5900rpm

    Throttle response is great from about 3000rpm up, (loaded by the prop)......I think it's a little much cam for a 4WD but I need to do some more tuning and testing including thrust testing before I can verify this combination....but I'm close enough to my targets to be happy.
    I was only trying to get 100hp |removethispart|@ 6000rpm so this might be 100 rpm short but it's way more power than I expected.
    I was planning on using a 226 duration/395 lift cam, but was able to get this one quicker, probly would have got virtually the same results with a titch better idle.
    Made a couple of other decisions as well...
- The other 8v is going in the airplane if everything
 checks out with this one on the airboat, that one will  
 get the very slightly milder cam.
- The daughters rag is going to get a 1.6/16v built up
  the same way as the (2) 8v's.

    But first I need to finish with this engine and get it throughly tested and get the 2.0l in the wifes 4dr Kick.

    I want to thank everyone for their input, it helped me make up my mind on the direction to go with solving this glitch.
    I also hope this little excersise helps out other people with the experience.

Till the testing is finished...

Zag
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2005, 03:27:36 PM »
If you don't mind Zag, where did the
Cam you used come from ?  and how
much was it ?

Wild
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Offline cj

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2005, 07:37:35 PM »
Good to hear it's progressing in the right direction.  :)
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2005, 12:15:36 AM »
How is the mixture looking at low rpm. Is there much evidence of blowback? 115bhp is a good result, nice work.
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Offline zaggy

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2005, 10:48:19 AM »
Hi guys
    Wild .....
    The cam is one that got done locally, shop had never done a suzuki grind and had a profile they wanted to try so I'm the test rat....I traded him some parts for it and supplied the cam core, if it checks ok on my engine he's going to want $190.00 USD, but doesn't want to go ahead until we get some time on this one.
    Rhinoman.....
    No evidence of any blow back...yet.  My worry at this point is durability...I've used this fellow in years gone by for custom grinds on Nissan race engines, but this is new ground.
    I need to do some additional testing before I could recommend this cam for street or even off road use. Idle is ok but pretty lopey, doesn't seem to be richening up at idle (1100rpm) but I need to get some time on it. Throttle response is a little funny under 3000rpm, but then again this whole combo is kind of odd. Over 3000rpm throttle response is sharp and instantanious. Pulls real hard from 3500ish up to 5900rpm. I'll be doing some more testing the next couple of nights and hope to geet verifiable hp numbers to refer on. I just like to be cautious.

Zag
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2005, 06:16:04 PM »
My cam cost me $200 so I guess the price
is about right.

Pinto 2.3L cams are similar, and would be a
good benchmark for how a cam would run, of
coarse you need to compensate for the smaller
displacement by not going too big on lift or too
much duration

Wild
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Offline zaggy

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2005, 06:56:39 AM »
Well you think you run your Suzuki HARD....

    Ran the engine for (4) hours last night, other than initial start up and cool down it ran at wide open throttle the entire time...(5900rpm), that right about 3hr and 45 min at WOT.
    Ran excellent, cooling fine, oil temp good, no leaks no runs no errors.
    Prop pitch set at 18 degrees, peak horsepower relates to approx 113-4 hp. Peak rpm is 5900 and no amount of tweakin will get it higher but I'm happy.
    I'll report actual thrust testing as it is another good cross check for power but I thinks I gots me a wiener.

    Tonight we recheck everything and go for another (4) hour run to check reliability...

If you haven't been following...5900 doesn't sound great till you realize thats loaded with a prop.

Zag
« Last Edit: June 08, 2005, 06:58:13 AM by zaggy »
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2005, 02:57:10 PM »
Awsome work dude   ;D
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Offline zaggy

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2005, 03:28:53 AM »
I guess this may be the last info entry on this thread...

    Last night we did the final test runs on the engine
- 5 min to warm up
- 5 min to cool down

- 3hrs and 50 min at wide open throttle
  (5900rpm loaded with prop at 17-18 degrees)

    Ran excellent, no problems at all. Plugs checked clean. No issues at all.
    Haven't done the final thrust testing yet, but initial numbers look like 415lbs at max power using a pull spring scale. This combined with the prop setting has me confident we have 113-114hp |removethispart|@ 5900rpm.

From a driving vehicle perspective....
-  Carbs should be CD150 Strombergs instead of
  CD175's...they are a titch big.
-  The 226/395 cam would work better for a vehicle, the
  228/415 idle and peak power seem a little much for a
  street/trail driver, but probly ok for a 2WD cruiser.
-  Fuel burn...
  Over the almost 4hr we averaged 17.9 litres per hour,
  about 4.2 US gallons per hour...put it into perspective,
  thats about 24 miles per gallon on an airplane at 120
  mph...this would be a reasonably economical vehicle
  engine.

    It's strong, reliable and sounds awesome, I'm going to finish the twin to this engine with the CD175 carbs and the 226/395 camshaft and it's going in our airplane...damn this thing works well.

    Now I have to finish the mounts for the 2.0L going into my wife 4dr kick....till next time

Zag
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Offline zaggy

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Re:16v valve timing
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2005, 06:01:11 PM »
Quote
Hi guys
    I wanted to take a second to thank "Wild" for hosting the engine pics for me, I admit to being a computer dufus. Thanks Wildgoody.
    The specs for the engine are listed under  "highperformance engine glitch" if you're interested.
    The carbs are strombergs and sikid-01 you are right they were off a TR-7. (CD175's) It's been a really neat but long drawn out project, check out the other thread for details.
    The guys on this site have been great with help diagnosing the glitch I've been fighting and I really appreciate it.
    As of last night and doing a pile of cam adjusting I'm still not getting full rpm but thrust tests are showing we are up to 100hp (approx) at 5000rpm.
    I listed the results of the experiment on cam retarding earlier but it looks like it got zorched by the hacker so I'll list it again here.

    The problem has been getting the engine to pull over
5000rpm. Goes to 5000rpm runs excellent but won't pull higher. From the advice I got here and a whole bunch or research I've diagnosed it to needing more cam. So I've ordered a cam. But while waiting for the cam I couldn't resist trying something different. Soooo

Test 1) -Engine was removed, all adjustments and
             systems verified correct.
           -Camshaft was retarded (1) tooth
Engine ran a little better, good throttle response under prop load, no additional rpm, no measurable power gain.

Test 2) -Camshaft retarded a total of (2) teeth
Engine runs very well, torque moved up 500-1000rpm, excellent mid range throttle response under p[rop load, ran a little cooler with extended (10-15min) wide open throttle. But no additional rpm (still max 5000rpm), but we were able to add another 1-2 degrees of pitch to the prop which indicates a slight power increase.
    Words of caution, I wouldn't recommend this setting for 4wd, it has moved the torque band up considerably and would not be a strong off road combination in my opinion. The other thing that is bothering me is I expected the engine to run badly as this is a pile of retard, I can't explain why it doesn't. It should by all rights run poorly and be overheating (from my experience on other engines). It does verify from the other link, one of the guys tried (1) tooth retard and I can say that does make things a little smoother and snappier.
    In the end I didn't get what I was looking for (more rpm) so the engine is out again waiting for the cam.

A special thanks agin to "Wild" and thanks to everyone for their input.

Zaggy

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Offline zaggy

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2005, 06:46:40 AM »
This should be the last report

    The engine has been working well, freinds have mine have been using it over the last few days while I have been finishing a huge project for the Alberta Aviation Museum (as a volunteer).
    It has worked so well in fact it is coming off and going on to my airplane.
    The en gine has put on almost 25hrs most of it at wide open throttle and given impressive results.
    Thanks to Wild and everyone else for their advixe and interest.
    Now I have to finish the other 8v to replace this one and then get back to the 2.0L swap thats half done.
Now Wild has my interest up on blower motors and I was lookin at the 2.7 Vitara and figure............

Zag
« Last Edit: June 20, 2005, 06:54:34 AM by zaggy »
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Offline zaggy

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2005, 07:52:48 AM »
Finally....


     Since the engine was switched to the aircraft we have been testing and sorting and taking care of airframe snags.
     Yesterday Transport Canada finally signed her off........first flight is imminent

    I will post pics.........

Zag
« Last Edit: September 23, 2005, 08:14:57 AM by zaggy »
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Pics of Zaggys Engine
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2005, 02:13:42 PM »
We want pics  ;D ;D
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2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org
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