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expert info needed

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Offline showgun

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expert info needed
« on: February 05, 2012, 06:21:35 PM »
I just want to get some info on this samurai setup. I am new to samurai's and haven't seen one in stock configuration. This one has had some modifications done to it and Im trying to figure out whats stock and whats not...

I know the leaf spring mounts are fabricated, do the leafs look to be original or are they a swap?
The leafs look a little flat, should I run new leafs with more arc?
Are the leaf spring mounts in the original locations?

It appears that the front end is sagging a little, I was thinking about getting new leafs and shocks but wanted to figure out what this is set up with. I can take measurements on the leafs if needed.










Thanks in advance

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Offline Boxcar

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 08:45:57 PM »
Not near stock.
A. It has been shackle reversed.
B. I'm pretty sure those are YJ springs . Stock samurai are 2"wide . those look to be 2.50 YJs.
C. It's got a crossover steer kit on it.
D. your pinion angle is all wrong on the front end.
E. your drive line is in backwards..
 All the work , other than the pinion angles and the drive line, looks really pretty well done.
On a SPOA suspension (as you have) you kinda want flat springs, the flatter the better. This promotes good articulation.
Unless the builder rotated your steering knuckles your caster is way off on your front end. This will make it wander.
 You should have 3-5 degrees of negative caster angle. Looks like yours  a ways to the positive.
You can correct this problem with wedges. MAKE SURE THEAY ARE BOLTED INTO THE SPRING PACKS. Not just slid between the springs and the pads.
A good rule of thumb is that the axle flanges (where the drive lines bolt to the pinion) should be parallel to the flanges on the transfercase.  (Boath axles)
 I can't see your shocks or mount so I cant comment on them. I will say that with your suspension I'd be running a long travel kit.
 I also don't se a rear track bar... If one is not on your Zuke now . ADD ONE . You will need it.
 Also, once you have your geometry corrected check your driveline length. You may need spacers.
And last but not least. The slip joint goes towards the transfercase.
 What you have is the makings of a great Zuke SPOA suspension. Just needs a little fine tuning...Have fun and welcome to the Zuke world....Boxcar...
 
God Bless
88.5 Samurai Heavily modified.

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Offline showgun

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 06:24:07 AM »
boxcar, You're the man!

Thanks a ton for the info, This is why I posted here... greatly appreciated.

I'll get under it tonight and measure the springs to verify. I'm trying to put together a "parts list" so I can tear into it and put the finishing touches on it. I know the front axle needs rebuilt (seals), needs new shocks (running ranchos with only 5" of travel), needs longer brake lines, plus the pinion angle shift and driveling change you mentioned, no sway bar on the front or back - should I run both or just the rear, and why?

This weekend was the first time I've torn into it, In the process of going through all the wiring, accessory wires everywhere... It was broke into and they pulled the radio face out with all the switches. I've got the winch up and running, the push button starter in order and most of the lighting wires figured out... now it's time for the mechanical piece!

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Offline showgun

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2012, 06:29:29 PM »
Yep, jeep springs....

Ive been reading on caster angle vs pinion angle all night and I'm a little overwhelmed. It looks like its in the negative right now judging by the pinion angle. It appears that its a little too negative and could be rotated towards the positive a few degrees if I'm understanding correctly.  At what point does someone sacrifice pinon angle for caster on a samurai? If the front pinion angle isn't lined up with the drive line will it be an issue?

If I'm understanding this correctly the negative caster will improve the steering/tracking but will add some stress to the TC seals, pinion seals etc...

Also, I see where the front sway bar has been taken out. I haven't checked the rear but how will adding a sway bar to the rear improve its offroad driveability?

This is a dedicated off-roader - not street legal.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 06:42:36 PM by showgun »

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Offline showgun

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2012, 08:18:01 PM »
Took a look at the front axle a little closer... Wanted to see if these welds and the end of the axle housing were normal construction. I'm looking at the pinion angle and then looking at the nuckle and the nuckle and components look to sit flat but without putting a gauge to it my eyes could be off 10 degrees... The spring perches are welded in place to accommodate the pinion angle, no shims being used to achieve the angle.

Any other thoughts on this?
Are the welds below normal for a stock sammy front axle?




« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 08:26:43 PM by showgun »

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Offline mrfuelish

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  • you must have a perception problem.
Re: expert info needed
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 10:01:27 PM »
can you take a pic of the other end of the drive shaft, Thank's.
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

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Offline showgun

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2012, 04:37:36 AM »
The sencond and third are of the left side, the 4th is of the right side.

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Offline locjaw

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, 05:57:34 AM »
can you take a pic of the other end of the drive shaft, Thank's.
i was gonna say, the driveline does not look stock either.
1995 Sidekick SAS'd "Trail Slayer"
1993 4 door lifted "Road Warrior"
1995 4 door stocker "CreamPuff"

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Offline showgun

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, 07:09:38 AM »
Will get pictures of the drive shaft up tonight.....

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Offline showgun

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2012, 03:23:30 PM »
Its got a tracker rear with spool...

The first three are of the front drive shaft and the last three are of the rear.







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Offline zuki1018

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, 03:48:54 PM »
Man they sure have those axles tweaked!  ...would that allow any fluid to reach the bearings?  My drive shafts dont look anything like those from memory... and my rear seems a lot longer.

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Offline showgun

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, 04:18:01 PM »
Yeah... I wonder if its a sammytracker hybrid rear driveline! Adding fluid to those diffs will be fun, I guess if I keep it on the trails some gear oil might make its way to where its suppose to be!

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Offline FBJR

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2012, 04:28:36 PM »
The rear should get plenty of oil as it is slug off the ring gear. The front, the opposite is true and should be addressed. Much less the caster angle.

The drive flanges of the axles and the TX case should be parallel in an ideal setup. Pretty much impossible with a 4x4 but the CV joints are a nice touch and can makeup for a lot on the front.

Other than the angles, it looks pretty good.

I might address the rear front spring mount. Looks like it kinda hangs out in the front looking to hook something?

I would cover the splines on the drive shaft that are exposed too. Why pull dirt into there?




I think I had a motorcycle that was heavier!!

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Offline showgun

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2012, 04:55:40 PM »
Well I'll probably just run with the rear as is for now because it has the CV joint. After doing some research I think Im going to add a rear track bar. As for the front, I think Im going to buy some shims and try to reduce that pinion angle a bit and put the caster in the negative which will slightly extend the driveline length which will require a spacer which costs more money.... !!! Hope my wife doesn't find these posts, she'll really figure out what I spend on my hobbies...

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Offline zuki1018

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Re: expert info needed
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2012, 05:24:23 AM »
Wonder what the cv's are off of.

Ha I used to keep a running total of what I have in my sami... just got too depressing! At least my better half is on board. Heck she wants her own trucklet now!