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Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions

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Offline zuki1018

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Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« on: February 01, 2012, 05:58:52 PM »


I am looking to get the water cooled Saab T2 plumbed into my 1.6 16v engine here shortly.  I have a water inlet/outlet along with an oil inlet/outlet. I need some advice on the locations to pickup the coolant and where to dump it back.  In addition, the best spot to catch the oil feed into to the turbo.

There are 3 ports at the t-stat housing which seems the obvious spot to get fresh water from.  Just not sure on where a good place to return it would be. I would prefer a solid location... other than tapping into a rubber heater hose or such. My intake does not have the idle coolant line(s) hooked up fyi... I am running Megasquirt.

As for oil, I see 2 ports on the driver side lower area.  One is occupied by my aftermarket oil sending unit to which i could tee off of i suspect.  There is also a hex plug just to the left of that.

To get up to speed on the build and a few other turbo/manifold pix:
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/build-diaries-how-to-diy/build-up-87-sami-1-6-16v-megasquirt/msg272115/#msg272115

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 04:14:16 AM »
For the coolant lines I just tapped into the upper and lower rad hoses using a t fitting I made for the top, and a welded bung to the steel portion of the lower rad hose for the return.  You can tee into the sending unit for oil, no problem there. I would reccomend using AN3 fittings and braided SS lines for all oil feeds. I would also reccomend researching the oil pressure requirments for your paticular turbo and make sure it can handle all the oil pressure from a straight shot off the oil gally from the engine. Typical 16V running pressures are around 60+ pounds at normal operating rpm and can easily over oil most turbos. They tend to flood and smoke a lot if over oiled. The oil drain from the turbo is critical also, to prevent flooding and oil backing up into the turbine side.
Also since your turbo sits pretty high I would suggest some kind of stainless steel ( much better at containing heat than regular steel ) heat sheild around your turbine and exhaust side to prevent melting things in the engine compartment.
It'll be worth it!  ;)
The usual stuff, and 2nd generation Air to liquid intercooled TURBOCHARGER

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Offline zuki1018

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 05:34:48 AM »
Not a bad idea on tapping the radiator hoses.  I just wanted to keep leak possibilities to a minimum.  That could be a worst case plan though thanks.

Anyone know for sure what size the block oil sender port is?

I will probably build a heat shield in front of the master cyl. and install an electric cooling fan i have.  I dont plan to run crazy boost but I want additional cooling for the lower MPH hill climbs and such.  I also still need to fab an additional hanger/support from the turbo to the head.  Im not in a hurry to finish... just wanted to get the manifold and turbo positioning finished.  TIA

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 12:54:09 PM »
Sender port is a metric size, funny I can't remember exactly. A 1/8th NPT will ALMOST fit, but doesn't. You should be able to find the size at a decent hot rod type store. To simplify things though, I just tapped mine to 1/8th NPT so everything was an easy fit.
I've had my turbo cooling lines tapped into the rad hoses for almost 4 years now, never a leak.
The usual stuff, and 2nd generation Air to liquid intercooled TURBOCHARGER

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Offline mrdezyne

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 01:58:23 PM »
So is there such a thing as an oil restricter or pressure regulator that needs to be used to control flow?  Probably a stupid questoin but I'm trying to research for a future turbo addition.

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Offline kreator

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 02:33:04 PM »
In the off road sand and desert cars I use a turbo fuel pressure regulator , so the more boost the more oil pressure.
If you over oil pressure it it will push the seals out of it, and it make a differance whether the turbo is bushed or bearinged
BOB | www.KreationFab.com | 503-689-1377

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Offline DonD

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 03:47:56 PM »
Sender port is a metric size, funny I can't remember exactly. A 1/8th NPT will ALMOST fit, but doesn't. You should be able to find the size at a decent hot rod type store. To simplify things though, I just tapped mine to 1/8th NPT so everything was an easy fit.
I've had my turbo cooling lines tapped into the rad hoses for almost 4 years now, never a leak.
1/8 BSP
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Offline bentparts

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 03:51:18 PM »
Sender port is a metric size, funny I can't remember exactly. A 1/8th NPT will ALMOST fit, but doesn't. You should be able to find the size at a decent hot rod type store. To simplify things though, I just tapped mine to 1/8th NPT so everything was an easy fit.
I've had my turbo cooling lines tapped into the rad hoses for almost 4 years now, never a leak.
1/8 BSP
Thanks for clarifying that Don, I knew it was something weird.
The usual stuff, and 2nd generation Air to liquid intercooled TURBOCHARGER

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 03:54:11 PM »
So is there such a thing as an oil restricter or pressure regulator that needs to be used to control flow?  Probably a stupid questoin but I'm trying to research for a future turbo addition.

I use an adjustable needle valve I got from McMaster Carr, plumbed through an old oil pressure gauge I had layin around. That way I could set the pressure where it needed to be. 25 lbs seems to be the good spot.
The usual stuff, and 2nd generation Air to liquid intercooled TURBOCHARGER

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Offline zuki1018

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2012, 05:33:09 AM »
Good comments thanks.

I do like the thought of adjusting the oil pressure.  How did measure the turbo line pressure in order to tweak it to 25psi?  Guess I could just move my sending unit above the adjuster.

I would still like to clock the turbo in a more upward direction to avoid turning the intake pipe as sharp and crossing back above the exhaust side as much.  My snap ring plyers were too small to get things apart... will have to pick up a larger pair.  The other pita is if i clock it, I will have to make a new mount for the wastegate actuator.  The aluminum mount is built onto the turbo itself.  It will be worth the trouble though.  Probably will save a good foot of extra piping (ie lag).

I ordered all the piping, adapters, blow-off valve, t-clamps, and electric boost controller (a Megasquirt MOD actually) yesterday. I decided on 2.25" steel 16g madrel bends for the filter and intake side.  Also I think my zuki exhaust also measured 2.25 if i remember correct.   I am going to build a snorkel while i am piping things in. 

T25 Garrett pulled from a Saab:
Intake (filter side) is 2"
Turbo to engine intake is 2"  (factory piping was 2.25)
Turbo exhaust side is 2.25

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Offline mrdezyne

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 07:29:02 AM »
Can't wait to see this thing making power.  Nice build.  Be sure to post pics of your intake plumbing when you get it all sorted out...

What did you use for a manifold?  Is that one of those generic u-weld log manifods?  I've been looking around for this part of the puzzle, curious what is out there for the 1.6.

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Offline zuki1018

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 10:32:15 AM »
Quote
Can't wait to see this thing making power.  Nice build.  Be sure to post pics of your intake plumbing when you get it all sorted out...
Yeah same here thanks.  Its been fun learning & building along the way. Never done any piping before so I am excited to start the plumbing phase.  Hell it took me a couple hours of pre-planning just to order all the stuff I needed online. Plus I am going for function and low cost so I plan to paint the piping black to blend in.  Hopefully this will cover up a booger weld along the way heh.


Quote
What did you use for a manifold?  Is that one of those generic u-weld log manifods?  I've been looking around for this part of the puzzle, curious what is out there for the 1.6.

Yeah I picked up the schedule 40 "weld els" at a local shop.  Any pipe fitting/pump shop should have them. 2 "Tees" and 2 90's.  They almost line up from the get-go.  Had to shave off about 1/4 off both sides of the Tees then re-bevel the edges. I went pretty thick on the flange also.  Measured and bought some flat stock that was close.  Torched the general shape out using the gasket, blew out the rough port openings, then cleaned it all up with my drill press and carbide bits.  Probably about 15-20 hours i suppose.  I did make the rookie mistake of not clamping my flange down while welding everything.  Ended up with a bow in it I had to have surfaced down ($20).  Materials were about $25-30 plus my screw up.

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 11:47:53 AM »
Looking good so far. To measure oil pressure going into the turbo, I ran the oil feed ( braided SS) from the block into the "in" side of the needle valve, The pressure guage ( just and old aftermarket HD guage I had ) is attached to the "out " side of the valve, the outgoing oil line to the turbo feed attached to that. Lets you simply adjust and watch the guage at the same time. I made a simple mount to attach both to fender well. There are plenty of photos here in the Build Diary section under " How to turbocharge a 16V" or at my flicker site  www.flickr.com/photos/bentparts. Look under 2nd gen turbo build.
The usual stuff, and 2nd generation Air to liquid intercooled TURBOCHARGER

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Offline mrdezyne

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Re: Turbo install update!! ; ..few plumbing questions
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 01:12:50 PM »
Yeah I picked up the schedule 40 "weld els" at a local shop.  Any pipe fitting/pump shop should have them. 2 "Tees" and 2 90's.  They almost line up from the get-go.  Had to shave off about 1/4 off both sides of the Tees then re-bevel the edges. I went pretty thick on the flange also.  Measured and bought some flat stock that was close.  Torched the general shape out using the gasket, blew out the rough port openings, then cleaned it all up with my drill press and carbide bits.  Probably about 15-20 hours i suppose.  I did make the rookie mistake of not clamping my flange down while welding everything.  Ended up with a bow in it I had to have surfaced down ($20).  Materials were about $25-30 plus my screw up.

Looks good!  I was thinking along the same lines as it looks like the easiest way to get a simple log style manifold.  My plan was to take a stock manifold and design the flange from that shape, then have the plate water jet or laser cut at a local shop.  Will probably add to the cost but might save some time?  My only FI experience is a BMW supercharger that was designed to bolt on, still a tight fit.  The Sami has SOOOOO much more room to work under the hood, I'm kinda excited about what is possible...  Rock on!