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practical difference between lockers and what to buy...

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practical difference between lockers and what to buy...
« on: September 25, 2010, 07:47:37 AM »
I am a bit confused about  different locker options I have.  As I understand a full locker locks the axle, so if one wheel spins the other still get's power. Now if you look let's say the rear axle but both wheels have no tractions does all the power go to the rear axle - in short if you have front and rear lockers, do you also need to be able to lock the transfer case ( or somewhere  else between front and rear)?
Next question : Air or electric lockers are 100% lockers? Detroit and Lock right are also 100% lockers but need no manual assistants to lock  and unlock? So why would you not just install lock rights ( 65 & cheaper than an air locker) an call it good? What are the negative sides for Detroit or lock right lockers.? Why would you go with an air locker instead....
I am looking for a reliable locker for an expedition vehicle which will see a lot of sand and mud but it is not an extreme off road/ rock crawler..... but it will drive 5500 miles on bad roads.....

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Offline jow003

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Re: practical difference between lockers and what to buy...
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 08:01:23 AM »
im not sure im qualified to answer this but ill try and someone else can say if im right.

Initial thought, id go with the detriots for what your going to do

Lockers lock the axle.  if one tire starts to spin it engages so both tires spin at the same rate and with equal power.  if you have front and rear lockers you shouldnt need anything in the t-case.  as for the pos/negs for either i cant really tell ya

thats my $.02, take it for what you paid for it :P where all you plan to go?
if a bigger hammer, bigger tires or more gas doesn't help... your doing it wrong.

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Re: practical difference between lockers and what to buy...
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 08:15:28 AM »
South Africa,Namibia, Botswana,Zimbabwe,Mozambique,Tanzania, Kenya,Uganda,Congo,Sudan,Chad,Niger,Mali,Algeria,Morocco - if I can get all my documents/visas ..... if not I might need to take a detour....

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: practical difference between lockers and what to buy...
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2010, 08:20:51 AM »
The best locker in my opinion is a lock-rite type of locker, the price is much less
and performance is the same as an air locker when locked.

The power goes to both wheels all the time on the same axle, you don't need
a transfer case locker because when in 4 Wheel Drive, power is sent to both
front and rear axles fully no differential action.

The difference is an air or electric locker is selectable, locked or open, and a
lock-rite type locker is always locked when you apply power, but when you
let off the throttle it allows the wheels to turn at different speeds, like when
making turns.

The problem you could have with an ARB is if you break an air line or have no
air pressure, because say your air compressor failed, you would have no locker
at all. You could back up your air pressure with a CO2 tank, but that is more
stuff to carry with you on a very long trip, and that still will not help if you break
an air line going to your ARB.

As far as I know, there is no Electric Lockers available for a Suzuki

Hope this helps.

If I were going on this expedition I would have Lock-rite lockers in both front
and rear, as well as 33" tall and wide Swampers, I run the 33x13.5-15 LTB
Supper Swamper and like the performance in the sticky clay mud we have here
in Southern California.

Good Luck
Wild

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And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

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Online fordem

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Re: practical difference between lockers and what to buy...
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2010, 09:25:16 AM »
I am a bit confused about  different locker options I have.  As I understand a full locker locks the axle, so if one wheel spins the other still get's power. Now if you look let's say the rear axle but both wheels have no tractions does all the power go to the rear axle - in short if you have front and rear lockers, do you also need to be able to lock the transfer case ( or somewhere  else between front and rear)?
Next question : Air or electric lockers are 100% lockers? Detroit and Lock right are also 100% lockers but need no manual assistants to lock  and unlock? So why would you not just install lock rights ( 65 & cheaper than an air locker) an call it good? What are the negative sides for Detroit or lock right lockers.? Why would you go with an air locker instead....
I am looking for a reliable locker for an expedition vehicle which will see a lot of sand and mud but it is not an extreme off road/ rock crawler..... but it will drive 5500 miles on bad roads.....


This is a discussion that needs to start with a description of the standard open differential - you need to understand how that works to understand why you need a locker.

When a four wheeled vehicle turns a corner, each wheel must travel a different distance, in the same time, so each wheel is turning at a different rate - the wheels on the outside of the turn travel further than those on the inside and the front wheels also travel further than the back.

The differential is what makes this possible - the differential allows the wheels to turn at different speeds, and without it both wheels on the axle would be forced to turn at the same speed, and one of the wheels would have to slip.

Unfortunately, this very same function that we need when driving on a hard surface causes a different problem on a slippery surface, if one wheel on the axle has no traction on the slippery surface, it spins, and the other wheel which does have traction, doesn't - the end result is that the vehicle goes nowhere.

To fix this we can add either a limited slip differential - or - a locker.

With a limited slip differential - as the name suggests - the amount that the differential can slip is limited or restricted, so even though one wheel is spinning, some drive will be sent to the other wheel and the vehicle will (or should) move.

With a locker, the shafts are locked together, there is no differential action and if one wheel turns the other does also, and so the vehicle will move as long as one of the two wheels has traction.

Automatic lockers - lockright or detroit - is a bit of a misnomer - think of them as automatic unlockers - the axles are locked together and unlock when necessary, for example to allow the outer wheel to travel faster in a turn - when this happens, the locker will typically make banging noises and the vehicle may jerk or twitch, especially on a wet road - if you fit one of these you will eventually adjust your driving style to accomodate this behaviour, usually by coasting through the turn, rather than powering trhough.

Electric or air lockers are selectable - engage them when you need, disengage them when you don't - and when they are disengaged, the vehicle drives exactly like it would without a locker, there are no bad road manners, no change in driving style.

One of the problems you can run into with lockers is axle breakage - you have no traction on one axle and end up putting full power through the other, instead of 50/50 and it snaps.

If I recall correctly KAM advertises an electric locker for the Suzuki, and also strengthened drive shafts.

http://www.kamdiffs.com/suzuki.php
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: practical difference between lockers and what to buy...
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2010, 09:32:59 AM »
A correctly setup locker should not bang when it disengages, but it will
make a clicking sound, and should be smooth not jerky

Wild
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And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

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Offline Drone637

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Re: practical difference between lockers and what to buy...
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 12:11:28 PM »
And if you stick with smaller tires the Lockrights work just fine.  It's once you start jumping to larger tires that you will break pins and cause other issues.

There is a really good write-up of different lockers and a discussion of the pro's and con's of each available at http://zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-beginner-repair/merged-'lockers-the-best-but-most-'-and-'mini-spool-vs-locker-'/
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Offline my996duc1

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Re: practical difference between lockers and what to buy...
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 03:21:48 PM »
I broke pins on my rear Lock Right locker. Tried a Detroit locker in the rear and just got tired of the banging and bucking.
I went to the ARB in the front and rear. Drives and sounds like no locker is there until you need it, flip the switches and you are locked up solid. Especially works great on the front to make steering alot easier while staying in 4wd and just flipping it on and off when needed while going around corners. If you are going to take an air compressor with you then why not have it run the lockers too.
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