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1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration

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1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« on: February 18, 2012, 02:45:39 PM »
Hello, i hope i'm posting this in the right spot!

I recently bought a 1987 suzuki samurai and after a few weeks of driving a rattle/jingling sound started happening when i'd take off in 1st and 2nd gear.  I investigated and found a metal "sleeve" that's loose where yolk comes out of the transmission.  I made a small video about the problem in a desperate bid for help:

Help my Samurai! :D
  skip to 1:26 to see a well-lit shot of what i'm referring to.

I'm not very good at explaining, so just watch the video and you can clearly see the offending part.  I'm very new to all this but i love old 4x4's and would really like to learn. 

I made the mistake of taking it to a Tires Plus to get checked out and those guy were just completely baffled.

The gear changes are smooth and it has no trouble switching to any gear.  It is drive-able at the moment but i'd really like to avoid damaging anything further. 

The sound from the loose sleeve was nothing more than a sound until 2 days ago.  For the past 2 weeks the drivetrain has felt smooth as silk.  The only vibrations i'd get were from the old (rebuilt) engine.  Now there is a noticeable vibration coming from somewhere along the drivetrain.  I don't think it's the loose sleeve since the noise was happening several days before the vibration. 

This brings me to the handbrake...

My handbrake was functioning well and would pull up about 30% until a few days ago.  I pulled it up and it went "CHINK" and pulled all the way up instead of it's typical 30%.  After that it didn't seem to be working.  My suspicions are that when i pulled the brake up, the e-brake broke and locked one or both of the rear brakes in place.  (fully or partially).  The car is new to me so maybe i didn't notice and kept driving it unaware that the rear brakes were partially locked.  I imagine this is pretty unlikely, but what do i know? That's why i'm here!

Anyways, the super awesome mechanics at Tires Plus were not able to get the wheel spacers off so they couldn't look at them.  My question is: Am i going to have to get them off my self if i want to a brake job from anywhere?  I've never put spacers on a truck before but i can't imagine a modern garage being stumped by them!

A huge thanks to anyone who can help me out!  I've wanted a Samurai for years!!



If any of you experts need more info or detailed photos of anything to make a diagnosis, i'll gladly provide anything i can!

Thanks!
Andy

Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 09:00:02 AM »
that is the dust shield ,you can tack weld it the factory crimps broke loose.
The fuel pump breather should not have any oil comming out of it  the diaphram has hole or tear.
call LOW RANGE OFF ROAD FOR REPLACMENT pump 888-SAMURAI

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Offline SineCredulitas

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Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 10:11:45 AM »
To remove rear drums you need to disconnect pin that e-brake connects to at backside of drums. To remove drums- I first removed the 4 center axle nuts and with the side jacked up securely, I kicked tire sides from behind until drum and tire came off. Not sure about spacers, but it should get your drums off if you can unbolt axle nuts. I don't think the e-brake can lock out one side or another when it breaks, but then again I'm semi new to Sami's.

Change your oil after replacing your mechanical fuel pump.

*oh, and you got some grease on your chin...    ;D
88.5 TT, dd, 1.6 16v, 5sp, a/c, SPUA, 30" MTR's

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Offline 87Suzi

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Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 10:46:42 AM »
I'd say the oil leak at the fuel pump is the gasket, try just buying a cheap gasket they're usually no more than $5. Clean that area real good, put that on and see if it stops leaking. Then if that doesn't do it, start looking for a pump.

Also, look under the sami where the E-Brake cable connects to at the handle and see if it popped loose or broke. Run it down from front to back and if you don't find a break jack the rear up to get both wheels off the ground and try rolling the passenger left wheel by hand (trans in neutral) if it rolls the brake is not engaged.

Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 03:51:00 PM »
Thanks for the info guys!  Turns out that the dust sleeve and fuel pump are the least of my worries.  The clutch needs to be changed and various seals on the tranny need to be replaced also.  Unfortunately for me, I have no room to work on it myself so i'll be dishing out a large chunk of change to a repair shop! :(

So far, two repair shops have been unable/unwilling to remove the spacers in order to check my brakes.  I'm pretty sure they're not that hard to get off, but the repair shops don't want to risk damaging anything by using any kind of force.

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Offline Boxcar

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Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 09:37:47 PM »
It's not that they can't get them off. They can't reinstall them...Liability is to extreme.
 Insurance for all in the industry has gone through the roof. One slip up and your all done.....
Sorry to hear about the clutch / tranny problems. You know what they say " If your gonna play, your gonna pay"
 God I hate myself for saying that...Somebody slap me....
 If you were closer I'd let you use my shop. I'm a firm believer of the whole pay it forward thing......
 Hope it all works out.....Boxcar...
God Bless
88.5 Samurai Heavily modified.

Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 11:12:50 AM »
It's not that they can't get them off. They can't reinstall them...Liability is to extreme.
 Insurance for all in the industry has gone through the roof. One slip up and your all done.....
Sorry to hear about the clutch / tranny problems. You know what they say " If your gonna play, your gonna pay"
 God I hate myself for saying that...Somebody slap me....
 If you were closer I'd let you use my shop. I'm a firm believer of the whole pay it forward thing......
 Hope it all works out.....Boxcar...

After 3 mechanic shops gave me 5 different excuses about the spacers, i decided to pop off a wheel and see what the big deal was.  The things are on there via 5 simple lug nuts.  The same size lugnuts that take the wheel off!  I was able to take them off and put them back on with the same 15 dollar tire iron i bought to take the wheels off!

I wish they would've just told me "we can't because of liablity blah blah".  It woulda been simpler than all the totally crap excuses they kept feeding me. (it's rusted on, we don't have the right tools, etc...etc...).

Anyways, the brakes seem fine.  i jacked up both ends and the tires spin easily so i know they're not stuck. 

Here's what i had done since my original post: (though the problem still persists)

-New clutch assy installed
-tune up
-lube oil filter
-rear main seal
-resurface flywheel
-remove broken dust sleeve on short driveshaft yolk

I've still got a horrid vibration coming from the middle/back or the drivetrain.  It's mainly noticeable when slowing down at low speeds.  The transfer case shifter shakes really bad when going from say 20mph to zero.  At 35mph+, it's hardly noticeable.  You'd only know that the vibration was there if you hadn't driven it when it wasn't there.

Another odd thing is that it doesn't happen all the time.  When i drove the 3 miles to work this morning, it was shaking up a storm when slowing to stop.  On my way back from work, it barely happened at all!  I've got an appt. at a 4x4 store/shop on monday to see if they can figure it out, but it's a 10 mile drive and i'd rather not drive it like this.  If anyone can diagnose this, i'd be able to take it to a much closer shop (and cheaper) shop to get it repaired so ANY help is GREATLY APPRETIATED!

I'm going to run outside and make another video that will hopefully show the problem i'm having in great detail.  Thanks a ton for all your help so far guys! (and gals?)

-Andy

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Offline Boxcar

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Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 04:30:52 PM »
Sounds like it's all T case. Probably rear bearing.
 Or ( this just came to me.) Check your T-case mounts. A notoriously crappy stock part that is overly prone to failure.
Get under your Zuke , Grab the T-case and literally shake it . If it moves more than a little , Your mounts are bad.
 This will defiantly cause the vibration under deceleration...Boxcar..
PS: If it is the stock T -case mounts. Do not replace with a stock mount. Go with a sky or something similar.
There are many to choose from at all price points. All are far better than stock....
God Bless
88.5 Samurai Heavily modified.

Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2012, 09:05:49 PM »
Sounds like it's all T case. Probably rear bearing.
 Or ( this just came to me.) Check your T-case mounts. A notoriously crappy stock part that is overly prone to failure.
Get under your Zuke , Grab the T-case and literally shake it . If it moves more than a little , Your mounts are bad.
 This will defiantly cause the vibration under deceleration...Boxcar..
PS: If it is the stock T -case mounts. Do not replace with a stock mount. Go with a sky or something similar.
There are many to choose from at all price points. All are far better than stock....



I tried your t-case shaking diagnosis, and the thing is solid as a rock!  The mount looks new, and the guy i bought it from was pretty adament that he had just rebuild the t-case. (though i'm starting to doubt his word about a lot of things!)

Here's part two of me pleading for help. 

Help my Suzuki Part 2!!!


The last part of the vid, I actually strapped my video camera to my rear axle to see what's going on under the truck while i'm driving it.  You can hear the "clicking"/"vibration" sound clearly at several parts during that scene. (the worst time it happens is at the end when i'm going to park)  Please let me know what you think?


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Offline Boxcar

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Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2012, 06:27:37 AM »
I'm pretty sure You have an auto lock in the rear end . What you are hearing is it ratcheting in corners (Normal for an auto locker) (and cool)
 The other rattles and squeaks are from your poorly mounted exhaust....
 The part in question is the proportioning valve....
 By the way , You must have BALLS OF STEEL....I love the camera mount. I'm saving this video....Lots of luck....Boxcar...
God Bless
88.5 Samurai Heavily modified.

Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2012, 04:05:58 PM »
I'm pretty sure You have an auto lock in the rear end . What you are hearing is it ratcheting in corners (Normal for an auto locker) (and cool)
 The other rattles and squeaks are from your poorly mounted exhaust....
 The part in question is the proportioning valve....
 By the way , You must have BALLS OF STEEL....I love the camera mount. I'm saving this video....Lots of luck....Boxcar...

So is the auto-locker broken or are you saying that sound/vibration is normal?  I ask because the first 2 weeks i drove it, that noise/vibration was non-existant.  I just want to do whatever it takes to get the drivetrain nice and smooth again

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Offline lv2fsh

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Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2012, 11:17:23 AM »
CheckALL the u-joints. Soundsd like that could be your problem. Sometimes the bolts even come loose. :o After you check the bolts(do that before you drive too much farther) the run it for a while and then feel them. If they are warm or more likely hoy, then they are dry and bad.

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Offline fuzzy1

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Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 11:55:19 AM »
X2 on all u-joints, they can be dried out inside before they actually have any play in them... & that's what that squeak sounded like to me.
I'd agree the ratchet sound is probably a locker ratcheting. Check to be sure the gear oil is full & clean. There is a bit of Ring & Pinion play. You could probably get a shop to reset the backlash, but that would require an axle teardown & likely be somewhat expensive unless you can do it yourself. Check &/or change the rear diff oil 1st. To verify if there's a locker, just jack the rear up & set it on jackstands so both tires are off the ground & turn the tire. If the opposite tire turns the same direction, it's locked.
& Yeah, on the spacers... the shops don't want to touch them for liability reasons. So they BS you with an excuse...
'97 Sidekick Sport 1" spacer lift 225/75R16 Cooper AT's. Pioneer Sound, 14" Grant Steering Wheel.Otherwise mostly stock
'96 Tracker 1.6l 16v 3spd Auto 4x4 85k - 1 1/2" OME Lift BFG 235/75 AT's on Ion Alloy 15x7's - Pioneer Sound - Custom Installed Hydraulic Drivers Seat (Sold)

Non Illegitimi Conterat

Re: 1987 Suzuki Samurai help - drivetrain vibration
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 07:06:12 AM »
Good News!  The awesome guys at 4 Wheel Parts Performance Centers diagnosed the problem in about 5 minutes and it was a cheap fix!

The u-joints on the short driveshaft were siezing up.  They popped 2 new u-joints in and now my sami is running like new!

They were also willing to remove the spacers and check my brakes!  The rear brakes needed shoes, and holy hell what a difference!

Screw Tires Plus, and screw AMMCO transmissions! 

Thanks for all the help guys!  I ended up spending $1,500 that i didn't need to, but oh well, you live and learn!

Next to fix: STEERING!

thanks again guys!