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XL-7 buildup for 32s

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Offline nomaad

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XL-7 buildup for 32s
« on: December 12, 2004, 12:58:32 AM »
I am moving my topic here from a NC board as the sammy folks don't offer much good info if you don't have a sammy. Maybe I'll have better luck here.

First off I was intitially planning on a body lift to reach my my goal. After visiting http://www.jeppaplast.is/ a maker of flares for our truck, they say with these on the fender mods made you can run 32-33" tires no problems. So I am bypassing the body lift for right now as metal work will be much more simple at this point.

Jag, you'll be glad to know I have decided against the 235/85. With these flares I can run a much wider tire as well. I am looking around at sizes right now as I don't want TOO much to push around out on the trails with stock gearing. Also, I think a narrower tire may benefit the front axles a little. I have in my mind that if I am gripping too good that may be when breakage occurs. Most of the breakage I have witnessed involves 34s and greater with flotation sizes. Any thoughts??

Also custom front and rear bumpers are in the planning stages as there are no good outlets for them here in the US. Shipping would be way too expensive on a heavy item such as these.

I been looking at some of the Taiwan sites and have noticed alot of folks over there using the ProComp MX6 shocks on the rear. Any thoughts here?

I am going to be replacing the Calmini struts with OME struts as they are a little over 1" longer. Any thoughts here?

I am going to be adding back spacing to the new rubber. either with new rims or machined. I am thinking that with the increased lever angle that a set of RR spacers may work well in the front and with the added weight of the new bumper will keep front drive lines about the same. I have seen a set of GV SS brake lines, I have to get with the guy though and find out where he got them.  Any thoughts?

One thing that does concern me is the mounting bracket for the third member in the front. After the lift Calmini supplied new hangers for the Diff but did not address the binding that is occuring on the third. I have noticed when running on the beach and trails that there is a lot of vibs being transfered at higher speeds through the braket. Also for me when I turn a tight switchback or corner on the trail, I get a little scrub sound from the front drive shaft as I am turning. Anyone else notice this with the lift? I am thinking either the exhaust rubber hangers need to be adjusted for clearance or the rubber in the third member bracket need to be stronger to keep it from wanting to turn out. Thoughts?

Last but not least a snorkel for the front end. No so much for water crossings as for the benefits of it on the trail and road. Inducted air, cleaner, so on . . .

Any help, tech or any other thoughts will be welcome. Thanks in advance.

I plan on having this build up complete by the April running of Uwharrie NP. I will be keeping notes and pictures of the build up in case anyone wants to reproduce the results.

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Offline blacknight

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2004, 11:00:27 AM »
 I am moving my topic here from a NC board as the sammy folks don't offer much good info if you don't have a sammy. Maybe I'll have better luck here.

Glad to have you here hope we can help.

First off I was intitially planning on a body lift to reach my my goal. After visiting http://www.jeppaplast.is/ a maker of flares for our truck, they say with these on the fender mods made you can run 32-33" tires no problems. So I am bypassing the body lift for right now as metal work will be much more simple at this point.  
I don't see how bigger flarrs will get you 33''s. I have 31's on right now and I think that about as big as you can go with out moveing the rear axles back about 2' or so. Mine almost touch the rear doors

Jag, you'll be glad to know I have decided against the 235/85. With these flares I can run a much wider tire as well. I am looking around at sizes right now as I don't want TOO much to push around out on the trails with stock gearing. Also, I think a narrower tire may benefit the front axles a little. I have in my mind that if I am gripping too good that may be when breakage occurs. Most of the breakage I have witnessed involves 34s and greater with flotation sizes. Any thoughts??

245/75/16 look real good with a calmini 2.5 lift and a little trimming ::)

George

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Offline fra8dog

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2004, 11:33:48 AM »
Hi everyone, I guess I am the newest member and I hope that someone can help me. I have a 88 zuk and want to do a susp. lift, I do not know which one to use. I want to run 31's and I am looking at the calmini 5" reverse shackle or the OME 6" does anyone have a better plan. I need a bolton kit. Thanks

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Offline nomaad

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2004, 12:13:32 PM »
Blacknight, I have seen your 245s on. I got you to put some pics of them and what you trimmed. They look sweet. I am actually thinking about the Yoko ATs or the Kumho MT haven't decided yet.

Actually the flares are for when I trim the fenders. I am looking some parts from Taiwan that I can use to move the rear axle back 2". I am also talking with machine shop about possibly modifying the calmini A-arms to move the front axle .5 to an inch forward.

I know you have been looking at a 3" body lift. Have you put in any thought as to what you will have to do to the truck? They have a 3.5" in Taiwan on the FTS site I believe that Joejoekuo put up.

I'm going to have to get up that way and hit Paragon with you guys this year. ;D

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Offline jagular7

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2004, 12:53:18 AM »
After some more wheeling this weekend and with some sloppy trails, are you sure you want to go with a larger flare? Reason is, I was climbing a soft topsoil incline. (Didn't have enough air out to get good bite with the weight shift.) The trail makes you steer left to right to left again. While trying to stay in the trail and to get bite, speedo was at 20 mpg and I was moving 1' per hour (real slow!!!), the front tires too bite and swung my sideways to a 3' dia. tree. I came within inches to contact. Any damage would be easily repaired with replacement panels, whereas custom flares are quite more expensive. My previous experience: I had a set of Bushwacker flares for a Ranger on my XJ years ago. No one made anything for the XJ in the early 90's. So I adapted. On those, I had to replace several of the flares. I could only buy per pair (front or rear). Cost was ~$250 pair.

(I'm looking at doing this - collecting information/hardware and looking for a 5-sp XL7 2wd preferred:) get rid of the rack and pinion steering. Go back to the steering box setup as this leads to a lot of different options. Next, look into dropping the front axle. Since the pinion is secured to the top of the welded crossmember, see about securing it to the underside giving some 3" drop. Then add a drop bracket/diff housing bucket for the rear portion of the control arm. The control arm's front mount is mounted to something which looks like it's bolted on. Add a spacer to that to drop that or make it part of the bucket. Since you already have the Calmini arms, look into ridding the rubber bushing and adding a heim or johnny type bushing. By relocating the rear mount (see below), this places the front mount into a bind. Heims/Johnny can be used as a misalignment bushing. Adding an upper bracket for the strut is rather easily performed and is only necessary for the lift. To gain some room for larger tires in the rear portion of the wheelwell, in the rear drop bracket configure the mount so that the control arm is swung outward (ie Hagen's front adjustment article here on Zukiworld). Did you notice that the entire front axle from hub to hub is not in a straight line? The hubs are about an 1" back from alignment. (I have pics in my album.)
Then, rather than dropping that aluminum housing, look into the Anvil so get a flange for both cv axles. Since anvil is steel, adapting is a lot easier. Getting a Trackick front housing to fit a front locker and matching gears. Then step up to the TORA cv's coming out real soon. CVs are twice as big as stock. Front is completed.
For the rear axle, you'll have to step down to the Vitara axle to gain the capability for gears/lockers. Not sure if the Vitara axle has the ds with the rubber bushing, but I would gather a guess that you could swap over the pinion ds flange to keep your stock rear ds configuration. But since you are moving axle backwards, its a mute point.
Rear lift comes from standard coils, shocks can be from an XJ front. To move the axle backwards, look at Izuzu Rodeo lower control arms. They are ~23" long, whereas XL7 ~16". You could bend then for better ground clearance and the mount will be near the rear mid body mount. If not Izuzu, aftermarket Jeep control arms have adjustability and are near ~16" long. I'm researching to find if the bushings will fit into stock XL7 mounts. For the upper control arms, I'm still researching this, but thinking something along the lines of adjustability to maintain pinion angle, so looking at the shortest control arm for the Jeep with adjustment.  If lower control arms are adjustable, it's not necessary for the uppers. Track arm will be longer with adjustment and raised to be on top of the axle. Got to keep the track arm parallel as best and to keep it out of the way of other things. Not modifying the drop bracket off the frame. If this gets longer, this induces more torque arm on the drop bracket. The track arm may have to be bent to clear the diff housing since moving the rear axle backwards. There is room to do this and not interfere with the gas tank. (Not sure if the Vitara tank is any smaller if there was a need for this.)
Another obstacle, though minor could be a PITA to deal with, since front diff is engaged with pressure from an air pump, the ECM is notified when it's engaged. Why? I can only see about showing a light on the dash, but I don't know how to evaluate the program in the ECM to find out.

First thing is to determine the potential tire size. Biggest obstacle is the front floor pan for the tires. By moving the rear front control mount outward, you make that a bigger space. Thus Blacknight's comments and previous pics. I think I can not take some good pics of showing where the tires rub as my wheelwells are full of mud. The tires will clear the mud and show the rub points.
Adding wheel spacers will only introduce another problem as the tire's edges is farther out and contact is greater this way. With a different offset of wheel and tire combo, you may be able to 'squeeze' the tire right on in. Add larger lug nuts to the spindle and use your current tire wheel combo. Measure the difference out with stock and spacers to get an idea of the changes.
Lenexa, KS

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Offline nomaad

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2004, 05:57:05 AM »
I have looked into two replacement axles for the rearend. Spidertrax and Currie.

Both say they can do me an axle. I am waiting for a price from both but here is what Spidertrax have sent back so far.

Hi Bill,

Yes it can.  We would recommend considering the new Spider 9 axle though. It is fully customizable so we can set it up just for the XL-7 but it would be able to handle the power no problem.  It uses a 9" third member.  The Sidewinder uses a Sidekick rear third member so in either case you will be switching out the third member which is recommended if you want good options for gears and lockers.  The Spider 9 is significantly stronger and the rear axle price is going to be very similar.  More information on the Spider 9's will be available on the website early next year, the expected release date of that product.  If you need anything else please let us know.

Sincerely,

Spidertrax Tech
Team Spidertrax
www.spidertrax.com

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Offline nomaad

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2004, 12:46:06 AM »
Joejoekuo, Favor? check this site out and tell me were this guy got the new brake lines. Please and thanks . . .

http://www.offroad.org.tw/dousun/gv/index.htm

I think it is like the fourth link down.

Also, Jag and other, what are you guys doing with the brake line that comes over the frame to the drum when you are extending the shocks in the rear? I know when I disconnect the track bar it droops about another 2" then the brake lines are stressed all the way out as well. I have the braided line from the control to the housing but those side runners would have to be addressed, right?

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Offline nomaad

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2004, 12:46:40 AM »
Joejoekuo, Favor? check this site out and tell me were this guy got the new brake lines. Please and thanks . . .

http://www.offroad.org.tw/dousun/gv/index.htm

I think it is like the fourth link down.

Also, Jag and other, what are you guys doing with the brake line that comes over the frame to the drum when you are extending the shocks in the rear? I know when I disconnect the track bar it droops about another 2" then the brake lines are stressed all the way out as well. I have the braided line from the control to the housing but those side runners would have to be addressed, right?

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Offline jagular7

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2004, 11:39:33 AM »
Quote
....snip....Also, Jag and other, what are you guys doing with the brake line that comes over the frame to the drum when you are extending the shocks in the rear? I know when I disconnect the track bar it droops about another 2" then the brake lines are stressed all the way out as well. I have the braided line from the control to the housing but those side runners would have to be addressed, right?


Do not disconnect the track bar. The track bar is the bar which is attached to the driver's side of the rear axle to the passenger side frame rail. This bar is necessary to maintain the axle underneath the vehicle. The control arms are parallel to the frame and perpendicular to the axle, and this provides little to none side to side movement of the axle.
As for the brake line, you could disconnect it from the frame mount, pull it through, cut a slit in the mount to direct the steel line through, then add a simple extension to the frame mount to relocate the adapter (hard to soft line) and secure it.

What will really limit the droop is the parking brake, I've found.

I've got some stock XJ front shocks on now and these provide another 1+ inch of droop. I went full compression (non-stock suspension) and still had 1.5" of shock shaft left (pics coming also), so I'll be looking into something more in length with less compression.

Bad News: while looking over the -7 from last weekends wheeling today, I've found I've cracked the diff housing on the top edge. I'll have to drain it as there was mud, water, etc.
Lenexa, KS

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Offline joejoekuo

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2004, 11:57:09 AM »
Quote
Joejoekuo, Favor? check this site out and tell me were this guy got the new brake lines. Please and thanks . . .

http://www.offroad.org.tw/dousun/gv/index.htm

I think it is like the fourth link down.



I am sorry I didn't get what you want to know. Could you show me the pic and point-out where you want to know! Thanks!

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Offline jagular7

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2004, 12:02:03 PM »
Quote
I have looked into two replacement axles for the rearend. Spidertrax and Currie.

Both say they can do me an axle. I am waiting for a price from both but here is what Spidertrax have sent back so far.

Hi Bill,

Yes it can.  We would recommend considering the new Spider 9 axle though. It is fully customizable so we can set it up just for the XL-7 but it would be able to handle the power no problem.  It uses a 9" third member.  The Sidewinder uses a Sidekick rear third member so in either case you will be switching out the third member which is recommended if you want good options for gears and lockers.  The Spider 9 is significantly stronger and the rear axle price is going to be very similar.  More information on the Spider 9's will be available on the website early next year, the expected release date of that product.  If you need anything else please let us know.

Sincerely,

Spidertrax Tech
Team Spidertrax
www.spidertrax.com


I'd second an order for such a rear axle, though I'd want the axle be full float design, if they could, and possibly work with the ABS.

Then see if they could fab up a front steel axle housing to bolt in the Vitara model. Looking at using the stock driver's side inner axle shaft, and a similar shape passenger side inner axle shaft (cut and respline driver's side), so that only one cv axle can be used. I've cracked my housing and require a replacement. Calmini's Anvil housing won't fit (bolt in) to the Vitara model, but with a little working on the mounts, I think it could. This option would provide a matching gear ratio/locker capability to the rear axle. Under the article archive, there is an article of using a XL7 diff housing, locker for Sami, Tracker gears. What would really make this steel housing a plus, would to be able to have C-clip axles capability with a removable center cap.
Lenexa, KS

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Offline nomaad

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2004, 01:40:35 PM »
Jagular, I don't remove my track bar . . . I was referring to when I was I adding the Calmini bracket when I put my lift on. I noticed then that when the track bar is released and I push down on the housing to get the springs in that the brake line coming over the frame is stressed. So what I was getting at is that it would have to moved or extended. I would really like to replace it with braided lines but I can seem to find anyone making any for front or the rear. I guess if I could find out what size they are I could buy for another application but I think they use some sort of weird sizing chart (-3, -4 sort) So how do you find the size?

Joejokuo,
I was talking about on that web site the guy is showing all his modifications, I was wondering if you could figure out where he bought the braided brake lines found on the link that is 6.????:
They say Bendix on the box but I have search all over and can't find those for our trucks.

Also, ment to tell you that Hawk Suzuki has those steel XL-7 housings for 350.00 something US, I'll have to check the email tomorrow at work. I forgot what the exact price was.

Thanks

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Offline nomaad

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2004, 01:44:44 PM »
Also, Joejoekuo, Where can I get one of those awesome shovel holders that mounts on the tire carrier you guys over there are using?

And if you can, it seems this guy on that website changed out his rear axle to a Dana 44? Atleast that is what I got from my translation of it, can you see if he just bolted one in or had one custom made?

I really appreciate it.

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Offline joejoekuo

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2004, 11:42:06 PM »
Quote

Joejokuo,
I was talking about on that web site the guy is showing all his modifications, I was wondering if you could figure out where he bought the braided brake lines found on the link that is 6.????:
They say Bendix on the box but I have search all over and can't find those for our trucks.
Thanks


I didn't see where he bought the brake lines? He just thought it will be more safe when changing bigger tires to replace the brake system. But I believe the brake lines are not Bendix products.

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Offline joejoekuo

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Re: XL-7 buildup for 32s
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2004, 11:59:33 PM »
Quote
Also, Joejoekuo, Where can I get one of those awesome shovel holders that mounts on the tire carrier you guys over there are using?

And if you can, it seems this guy on that website changed out his rear axle to a Dana 44? Atleast that is what I got from my translation of it, can you see if he just bolted one in or had one custom made?

I really appreciate it.

It's easy to buy the shovel holder and cost about $40 dollars.
I just know he changed the rear axle to Dana, and TRUETRAC 44 is LSD(He said). I think he didn't use a custom made one.