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brakes keep locking up

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brakes keep locking up
« on: August 28, 2011, 04:44:40 PM »
I have a 95 Kick,  and the brakes keep on locking up.  I believe that it's just the front, haven't had issues with the rear, though I haven't touch the rear brakes other than bleeding.  It has ABS, and I noticed that the drivers side front isn't on the ABS system.  Is that normal?

What I have replaced so far...

-Master cylinder
-Front lines
-Front hoses
-Calipers
-Rotors
-Pads


Anyone have any ideas?
Oh, the brake pedal feels like the engine is off, where it doesn't release the pressure. ???

Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2011, 05:58:00 PM »
I think the 95 and older trackers only had rear wheel anti lock.
When you say the brakes lock up do you mean the pads are dragging all the time? Especially right after braking and possibly pulling to the side for a while after you let off the brake?
If the brakes are just dragging I had that problem on my track and it was just the pads were too tight in the shims. Fixed that by grinding off a bit of each end of the pads where they slide on the shims. I ground and fit them little by little until they were held secure enough by the shim to prevent clicking/rattling but not so loose that they'd be jiggling around.
My pads, shims, sliders, calipers and rotors were all new so I have no idea why the pads were too tight. Probably just a typical lack of quality control.

The few early trackers I've driven have had somewhat squishy brakes compared to other vehicles so a stiff pedal is odd on these things. Check to make sure your ebrake isn't over tightened or sticking. If that doesn't fix it I would lift the truck off all 4 wheels and spin each one to see which one is bound up and go from there.

Let us know what you find.
Proud owner of a low mile 1992 Tracker 4x4 rust bucket.

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Offline talonxracer

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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2011, 07:20:20 PM »
It doesnt have true ABS, but a valve in the rear with a arm that attaches to the rear third link with a spring. When the rear lifts up it directs almost all the braking force to the front wheels. If you add a lift kit it is always engaged and always sends all the braking to the front.

If you have a gizmo in the back like this, go ahead and disconnect the spring.


I would also make sure tha vacuum line from the mani to the Brake booster is not blocked.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 07:52:33 PM by talonxracer »
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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 02:55:18 PM »
That's the LSPV - load sensitive proportioning valve - it controls the rear brake effort based upon the load in the back of the vehicle, more load, more braking  Disconnecting the spring is not the best approach - Suzuki put it there for a reason - if you have lifted the vehicle you may need to extend the arm with the spring to compensate for the lift.
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Offline bentparts

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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 03:57:29 PM »
Sounds like you replaced just about everything in the system. when you replaced your master cylinder did you check the piston rod length to make sure it was correct? If it extends too far into the vacuume booster it would do just what your describing.
The usual stuff, and 2nd generation Air to liquid intercooled TURBOCHARGER

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Offline talonxracer

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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 05:50:30 PM »
That's the LSPV - load sensitive proportioning valve - it controls the rear brake effort based upon the load in the back of the vehicle, more load, more braking  Disconnecting the spring is not the best approach - Suzuki put it there for a reason - if you have lifted the vehicle you may need to extend the arm with the spring to compensate for the lift.

I mentioned removing the spring as a troubleshooting step, I should have been more complete in my reply.

My AE lift has a new third link without provisions for the spring and I have not had any issues whatsoever with braking with disconnecting it.
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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2011, 08:37:55 PM »
My AE lift has a new third link without provisions for the spring and I have not had any issues whatsoever with braking with disconnecting it.

Correction - you have not had any issues YET.

Your rear brakes are making very little contribution to stopping the vehicle - which is not a problem when it's lightly loaded, however, load the vehicle up and you will find the braking distance required to stop from a given speed to be greater than it should, and let's hope for your sake, than when you do in fact need the rear brakes to play their part, that you don't run out of room and end up using the back of the vehicle in front of you as an additional stopping resource.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline talonxracer

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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 06:05:24 AM »
I had 400 lbs of food and fuel in the back and a passenger up front, no issues at all with braking, in fact iot was greatly improved! You have the purpose of the load sensor slightly skewed/mis-understood, the system is intended to REDUCE braking forces to the rear with LOWER weight in the back and as the weight is transfered to the front during braking, when you use the brakes the weight is transferred to the FRONT brakes, thusly unloading the rears and this can cause the rears to LOCK up as they are carring alot less weight due to the short wheelbase.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 06:10:02 AM by talonxracer »
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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 08:46:43 AM »
I had 400 lbs of food and fuel in the back and a passenger up front, no issues at all with braking, in fact iot was greatly improved! You have the purpose of the load sensor slightly skewed/mis-understood, the system is intended to REDUCE braking forces to the rear with LOWER weight in the back and as the weight is transfered to the front during braking, when you use the brakes the weight is transferred to the FRONT brakes, thusly unloading the rears and this can cause the rears to LOCK up as they are carring alot less weight due to the short wheelbase.

What mis-understanding would that be - reduced braking forces to the rear with lower weight (your explanation) is exactly the same it controls the rear braking effort based on the load in the back of the vehicle, more load, more braking (my explanation), you're simply restating it from the opposite point of view.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2011, 06:21:20 PM »
Sounds like you replaced just about everything in the system. when you replaced your master cylinder did you check the piston rod length to make sure it was correct? If it extends too far into the vacuume booster it would do just what your describing.

I did not check the length, do you by chance know the length that it should be at and how to adjust it if possible.  I think it might have been 1"1/2 2" in, it was a couple months ago.

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Offline bentparts

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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2011, 04:19:25 AM »
I don't know the exact length, but an easy way is to compare it to the old one, measure both and make sure there the same. Had that happen to be when I did a MS swap to the bigger one from a 4 door. Rod in the 4 door one was longer and kept causig the fronts to lock up once they got hot.
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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2011, 03:34:37 PM »
I bought my mc brand new, and the pedal still gets harder and harder every time i touch the brakes.

p.s.  Everything I replaced is with brand new parts

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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2011, 06:48:17 PM »



Curiosity question - in this picture which way is up?

At a glance it seems the bleed nipple is at the bottom, which seems a little unusual.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline talonxracer

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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2011, 07:25:11 PM »
Yes the bleeder is on the bottom, that picture was taken looking up.
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Offline Drone637

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Re: brakes keep locking up
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2011, 06:47:21 AM »
It sounds like the brake booster is having issues or isn't getting vacuum...
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