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Need help changing springs!!!!

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Offline sergi

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Need help changing springs!!!!
« on: April 29, 2005, 05:12:41 AM »
Hi,
Yesterday I went on to change my rear springs. It wasn't as easy as I expected, but all went OK. Today it's the front spings I am changing. But I have problems!
The thing is, I can't get the lower balljoint loose. I've loosened the two strut bolts, that link on to part A (because I don't know  what it's called :-[). Well, this part A is linked to the A-arm by a nut/bolt with the balljoint. The thing is, I've removed the bolt, but I can't get piece A to slide on the bolt to separate it from the A-arm. What am I doing wrong????
Suzuki Grand Vitara 3dr TurboDiesel
Barcelona, Europe
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Offline jagular7

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2005, 06:15:52 AM »
Probably nothing. The part A is usually referred to as the steering knuckle. The steering knuckle holds the strut on top, connected to the lower control arm via the lower ball joint, and the spindle is bolted to the knuckle. I would reconnect the nut to the ball joint, then hit the a-arm near the ball joint area. What is going on is the ball joint has a tapered bolt. The hole for the ball joint is also tapered. Being that they are torqued with the nut, this creates a 'fit' so there is no play. Same for the tie rod.

However, it's not a real necessity to remove the lower control arm from the knuckle to get to the spring. You do have to disconnect the strut, disconnect the tie rod and remove the caliper, then the lower control arm will have enough to swing to lower the spring.

I wouldn't have removed the strut from the spindle. This is where it's aligned. I would remove the top of the strut from the upper mount. It's only a single bolt, located withing a single hole. This wouldn't require an alignment check once you are done.
You remove the tie rod as the rack and pinion (US Vitara 3rd generation model) steering can't handle the amount of droop necessary to remove the spring.
You remove the caliper from the bracket on the knuckle as the brake line isn't long enough.

Recommendation, if you plan to install a statically taller spring, it's not going to be easy. Due to the frame point of the lower control arm and the distance of the spring from those points, it's rather difficult to get a statically taller spring in. Same for installing a larger spacer. I've tried.
To install a statically larger spring, compress it to a point near static height of stock spring. Retain it at this height. Install with PRECAUTION as the spring is now a loaded spring. Next would be to lower the factory upper strut mount. It's not easy on these models as they are rather tall and are secured with a strut mount.

Good luck.
Lenexa, KS

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Offline sergi

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2005, 06:30:59 AM »
Thanks Jagular, that was great help. I'll try right now to see what goes on.
The springs should give a 1.5" lift, so they aren't that much taller than stock. I wasn't expecting that much trouble getting the stock spring out though...
Well, I'll get going ;D
Suzuki Grand Vitara 3dr TurboDiesel
Barcelona, Europe
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Offline sergi

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2005, 07:13:41 AM »
By the way, just seen I have just the same problem with the tie rod. I didn't fully understand how to remove the steering nuckle from the arm, and I see the tie-rod is connected to the steering knuckle in the same way.
How is it done? I've removed the nut on top, but it won't come down. I've tried tapping it gently, do I have to go harder?
Thanks a lot for your help! :D
Suzuki Grand Vitara 3dr TurboDiesel
Barcelona, Europe
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Offline jagular7

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2005, 04:02:07 PM »
Tie rod is a little different. You could use what is referred to as a 'fork', but using this usually ruins the boot. Or you could hit the area of the tie rod on the knuckle. Or....

I usually remove the nut to 1 thread off the tie rod threads (or make the nut flat with the top of the threads). Then hit the nut square with a 3.5 hammer. This should make it drop out. By hitting the nut, you prevent the threads from mushrooming. It's ok for the nut to mushroom as you have 6 sides of it to work with and could use an adjustable wrench to tighten it rather than a socket. After it drops, the nut prevents the tie rod from fully dropping with the impact of the hammer.

Does yours have the safety cotter pin? My XL7 doesn't. ???

Don't forget to disconnect the cv axles from either the knuckle or the diff/axle to get full benefit of the swinging A-arm.

As for adding 1.5" taller springs, see how much difference there is between them from stock statically. I recall the XL7 stock static height to be ~13". You may have to push on the control arm to swing it enough to get the spring out.

There are pics of this little stuff in my webshots under XL7 suspension, IIRC.
Lenexa, KS

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Offline sergi

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2005, 01:48:41 AM »
OK, thanks a lot jagular7, your help is really useful. I will try the tie rod thing today... Hope this works. I was considering taking it to the workshop to get it done, as I would probably need an alignment done anyway. But as I said, I'd rather do it myself.
Now, when I get the tie rod out, how do I get it back in? Hammer as well?
Suzuki Grand Vitara 3dr TurboDiesel
Barcelona, Europe
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Offline Cwkick

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2005, 02:09:06 AM »
It will slide in easily with you hands.  Once you tighten the nut down it will pull everything back together.  

Cwkick

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Offline sergi

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2005, 02:45:27 AM »
ok, I'll trust you to that, Cwkick ;D
I'll try now...
Suzuki Grand Vitara 3dr TurboDiesel
Barcelona, Europe
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Offline jagular7

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2005, 06:01:42 AM »
Quote
It will slide in easily with you hands.  Once you tighten the nut down it will pull everything back together.  

Cwkick


Exactly. The nut will pull it tight up into the cavity. Does yours have the cotter pin?
Lenexa, KS

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Offline sergi

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2005, 06:15:25 AM »
Hi! SUCCESS!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thank you very much, I couldn't have done it without you (no joking here).

I've just done the passenger side, but I ran out of time to do the other side.

I am not sure what you mean about the cotter pin. I just hit it hard till it came loose...

You were right about the tie rod sliding in, but when I tried to tighten the nut, the tie rod would simply spin, so it was rather useless. Had to hammer it from below to get it to stay put.

Well, thank you very much (again).

I'll post pics when I'm done. And if anyone else has any questions I can answer on this topic (I've got it fresh ;)), I'd be glad to.
Suzuki Grand Vitara 3dr TurboDiesel
Barcelona, Europe
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Offline jagular7

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2005, 04:01:10 PM »
Cool, glad things worked out. Do note, since the tie rod ball was spinning with friction on the nut, it may be going bad. The ball in the socket has clearance, but as that clearance gets greater, there will be play in the steering and while driving, you will feel it.

Cotter pin, it's a pin that fits into a hole in the threads of the tie rod. Usually, the nut will be a castle nut (shaped like a castle tower). With the nut tightened, the pin goes through the hole, through 2 openings in the castle nut (like between your finger sort of thing) and secures the nut from working free.
Lenexa, KS

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Offline sergi

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2005, 09:51:46 PM »
Well, mine definitly doesn't have a cotter pin. My nut won't work properly as I hit it to get the tie rod out. When I went to the shop to get one it was closed  :(.
So I did a small very temporary fix to try it out, as I have a sort of construction site at the end of the street. It rides very stiff, and I don't have much droop. I'll have to work on that, was thinking about flipping the strut mount and getting rid of the sway bar up front and put some sort of spacers for the rear shocks. I don't want to change them for now...
So now comes the quetions. Ir I flip the strut mount, will I be able to retain the bar that connects the 2 struts? If I flip it, what is going to happen with alignment?
And about the sway bar: is it a good idea to definitley remove the sway bar on a daily driver or should I rather keep it for onroad use?

Thanks again for your help :)
Suzuki Grand Vitara 3dr TurboDiesel
Barcelona, Europe
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Offline jagular7

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2005, 01:16:32 AM »
Since you have the Grand Vitara in Barcelona, can you verify that your GV is nearly the same to the GV in the US? I want to make sure that I'm giving the proper info.

Since I have an US XL7, it's basically the same as the GV, just a little longer.  For the rear, it's rather simple. I have a stock front gas shock for a Jeep Cherokee (XJ series). It's 2" longer in droop and 1" less in compression. Biggest problem with the rear shock you will have is that it may be too long, meaning that before full compression of the axle, the shock is bottoming out (full compression on the shock). This damages the shock of course as well as the mounts. I have placed the 2" Jeep spacers in the rear. I also added a 2" bump stop riser on the axle. Pics are in my webshots link under suspension. The XJ shock still has another ~1" to compress at full axle compression. The riser stops the axle from compressing even more.

For the front, it's a lot different. You really can't just flip the upper strut mounts. The 3rd generation Suzuki (US Vitara series) has a much taller mount and there is a strut support bar. You could replace your stock strut with the OME strut as it's longer and this would help with the droop.

For the sway bar, it's up to you.  Disconnect it for a while and give it a shot for street performance vs. offroad. Then you will know. I've got mine removed. There is considerably more body lean in turning vs. the amount of droop I get trailriding. I may put mine back on.
Lenexa, KS

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Offline sergi

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Re: Need help changing springs!!!!
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2005, 02:17:03 AM »
Hi, thanks a lot for the info Jagular7.

As far as I can tell, the only diffence is mine is a 3dr with a "metal roof". And the diesel engine. This gives more weight, so I would think that the springs would be a bit stiffer, apart from that I believe they are the same. Eg: mine weighs 1450 kgs, or about 1500 fully loaded, oposed to 1300? of the other 2 drs. I'll check stock/new wire diameter.

As for the rear shocks, I'll check the XJ shocks. I've seen your pics and I find it to be a good solution for the rear.
As for the front, I thought so about the mount flip, although it is done on sidekicks isn't it? That is what gets me confused.

Well, we'll think of something else then, and I'll try without the swaybar. The thing is I don't want to have too much droop up front, as diesel suzukis (talking mainly about sidekicks) have a fame of breaking lots more cv's than gas. But you'll never know until you try ;D.

Again, thank you very much.
Suzuki Grand Vitara 3dr TurboDiesel
Barcelona, Europe
Aquesta és la meva màquina. Creus que em pots seguir?