Ok, I have a 04, 4 door Chevy Tracker V6, pretty much the same as a Grand Vitara.  I want a locker of some sort BAD.  So, here I sit looking at all these options I don’t have and I am getter really confused, some clarification from someone smarter, please.

I have the ARB catalogue in front of me.  It says:
Front locker for 1998-05, 26 spine ADD, 27.4 shaft dia. – says Grand Vitara/XL7 will need a conversion kit and a Vitara/Sidekick 3rd member.
For the rear locker 1998-05, 26 spine, 27.4 shaft dia. – says GV/XL7 rear requires conversion using Vitara/Sidekick 3rd member (and 26spine axle shafts if required).

1st, what is ADD (not accidental death or dismemberment)

2nd,  I did call around, and the few ARB dealers I talked to are not sure what fits what.  No one seems to deal with GVs or Trackers this new too much or at all

3rd, this looks like I need (mine is like a GV right?) maybe some 98 or so front and rear 3rds and I will be good to go?  If this is so them why aren’t TT, roadless, calmini, hawk, etc. pushing their lock-rites or spools for the GV/V6 tracker crowd?  Logic to me would seem that if I can make an ARB work that easy, the any locker would do.  I have not taken my 04 rear apart but I assume that it is 26 spine 27.4 dia.

Please tell me what I am missing here…… thanks

In the same boat withmy 01 Vitara , I took my rear apart and found that the ring gear is different than the older modles and it seams that a third from a older track/kick will work. picking one up this week to try... will let all know what happens ...

from what i gathered is the rear changed in 01 or they dont know whats in it  but anything from 94-00 will have the same12 bolt rear... i dont know for sure if the rear changed but no one seems to list past 2000 models... the front is the same from 89-98 it says except from 96 on the output changed to 26 spline... what i would do is just check your front and rear diff see if they are still 12 bolt rears and 10 bolt front, then check the spline on it to see if they both stayed 26... honestly i doubt they changed it they probably are just too new.. and no one has ripped into them yet... just like with hayes manuals you have to wait a few years before they even make one... but what i have seen so far anything from 96-05 is the same setup 10 bolt front 12 bolt rear 26 spline axle shafts... i could be wrong but i dont think your gonna find out for sure unless you try it or find someone who has..

Pardon the interruption, but this is a mod that I'm planning for my 99 GV.  I'm planning a rear-only ARB but all this talk of having to convert before installing has got me concerned.  I mean I keep reading I have to get pieces out of an old tracker/sidekick and put them in my GV first?  I mean wouldn't that weaken it?  Wouldn't my GV parts (I guess they're talking about the diff carrier itself) be stronger because it's meant for a v6?  So I have to downgrade before I can upgrade to ARB?  And what about the ratios?  I'm sure the final drives between the sidekick and GV are different allowing the tracker to run at higher rpms on the highway, does this mean I have to convert the front too?

And for pete's sake, WHAT on EARTH is this "THIRD MEMBER" thing that everyone talks about?    I'm a 4-5th year apprentice mechanic and the suzuki forums are the only places that I have heard that term and I still don't know to what exactly it refers.  All I know it has something to do with the rear axle/differential.  Is it:  The axle tubes/diff case?  The big heavy piece the diff itself mounts into, before going into the rear axle?  The carrier itself, including the crown/ring gear?  The pinion gear?  The carrier without the ring gear?  Speaking of third member, what happened to the first and second members?

Sorry for asking a doofy question but I've owned my GV since January and have been lurking (mostly) on this forum and others for just as long.  Just read this thread and I just snapped and had to ask.  This has been driving me insane.

I really really would like to see a tutorial on installing an ARB air locker into a GV, specifically what the heck they mean by requiring what parts exactly from a "trackick" and why... oh and now it only affects 01 and newer?   

I know when someone says "12 bolt rear" I know it means how many bolts hold the ring gear to the carrier... and 26 splines yeah I know that too...

 

James

1st, what is ADD (not accidental death or dismemberment)

I think it means "automatic disconnecting differential"  ie. it disconnects from the front c/v shafts.

James

I'm a 4-5th year apprentice mechanic
What is a 3rd member?
"WOW"
Okay,I'll bite
It is the part that is removeable on the front/rear axle that holds the pinion/ring gear and is removeable with out removing the whole rear axle.

Upgrade/downgrade 3rd member?
it's actually a straight across trade off.
It just gives you more options in the rear(i:e parts avilable(I:E, Lockers))
If you have a steel Front third, hold onto it............
Hope this helps a bit..

 FYI You can't use 4.875 R&P's with an air locker. There are some differences that even with some machining still won't let them work.

I too have been a bit puzzled about 3rd member (also 1st and 2nd  ).  I think it is the assembly of parts listed as:

Case Diff, LH
Ring, Exciter
Case Diff, RH

Is that near?

 Gear Case - cast iron (or optionally, aluminum) unit that houses all of the internal differential components, such as the carrier and ring and pinion. When all of the internal differential components are installed into the case, the completed unit is referred to as a "third member". The 3rd member is then installed into the axle housing 

Great discussion!  I totally agree with Wezeles.  I think the newer generations are still way too new for too many people to have broken them down to modify.  Most people can't afford nor are interested in buying a new/newer vehicle then taking them apart iin their driveways.  They can't afford the cost of parts,,, or worry about voiding an existing warranty or they just aren't interested in modifying their rides (yuppy types).  These trucklets are just a great way to get from home to work for most people.   Older Trackers/Kicks and Sammys have been stripped down to their frames and modified many times, as documented within this forum but what exactly is different/new on the newer generations isn't as widely known by as many.  Hell, there is even a great deal of discussion on just how high you really can lift the suspension without bringing doom on the CVs or some other area (1.5" or 3"?).

This is the exact reason that makes me think Richmond gear, in their final analysis is going to opt for manufacturiing rear end gears and differentials for the newer generation trucklets (99-07 Trackers and GVs) because the market is growing on these trucks and slowly diminishing on the earlier Trackers/Geos/Kicks and Sammys (98 and earlier).  They don't make or import them anymore to us.   At least here in the U.S.   their engines and axles will out last the vehicles.  You got to have a body in order to have truck.

This is a great forum and I totally enjoy the information exchange and flow.  It's helped me tons already

Norm

i think we will see alot more of the newer gens soon... they are now getting cheep. i picked mine up for 4,500 bucks out the door with 75,000 miles and a 30,000 mile warranty...  and i drive mine like its an older vehical with little discretion... its not that they are expensive to fix, its just the parts are just now being made... i have to replace to lower control arm "one piece ball joint broke" both inner and outter tie rod ends and the cv shaft on mine after ive been messing with it . mudding trail ridding ect.. my strut extender let loose and drove over my own tire... but still the price for a used control arm was 50 bucks, the cv shaft 75 new, inner and outter tie rod 100 shipped to my door... not bad for a car only 7 years old... and for what i did so far i couldnt have rented a jeep and done that much for the same price... 

we know the rear end is the same atleast untill 2000... i dont see why they would change it after that... the front end is also the same up till 2000 dont see why they would change that eaither... i know the XL7 rear end is larger "3rd memeber" but besides that they all seem to be based basically on the same setup as the 96-98 styles with the 26 spline front and rear... the only issue you will get into is the high end vehicals with stuff like ADD and i think some of the XL7's and grand vitaras offer and AWD 4low and 4 high so its probably got some electrics in there... but when you talk about adding lockers... these all use the same parts and bolt patterns we know this from guys upgrading to XL7 steal diffs up front... best bet get on ebay or a junkyard... buy a steal diff without any of the crap if you can if you have to just get a alum then toss a locker in that... then toss on some manual hubs... even in winter conditions you could just lock one side so it doesnt go squirrely on you...

  granted you will probably loose your ADD, your AWD, or traction control if you have it... but your putting in a locker air locker or not you obviously want something that will have some extra guts off road... so screw the extra crap you can survive without it and the soccer team will be fine i promise... if you wanted the ability to have all that traction and a safe cushy ride no matter what.. you wouldn't have bought an "economy" mini suv you would have bought a freekin hummer for 50 grand or more...  my guess is unless you dump alot of cash, your not going to be able to stick with the "push button" luxury...  but unless your lifting it tossing on bigger tires and acctually doing stuff with it... you dont need a locker in the first place...
 
the true mini suv is gone... its sad enough that they went to a rack and pinion steering setup on these things for the 99 and up styles... but now all the new ones are unibodys... and you know the full frame wont come back... same with CRV's, hyundai all of them... this is the last years of the "real" mini suv's, its all going to be cross overs now,unibodys, push buttons, AWD nothing but lifted station wagons that handle well in bad "On road" conditions and thats all....anything this small with the same setup after today will be cutom made not factory... so have fun, go wild because you wont have another chance, just storys to your grandkids of how they use to make off road vehicals, and how cool you made yours

wow, this turned into a really good discussion.  thanks all for you input!

FYI You can't use 4.875 R&P's with an air locker. There are some differences that even with some machining still won't let them work.

i think this is the problem with the V6 and why a reg locker wont fit.  on another forum i got some info on an ex ARB tech that i am going to try to contact.  i will post here if i find out anything.

i agree about the mini suv is dead/dying.  r&p steering sucks, unibody sucks..... and i really hope the small 4x4 modding craze moves into the 200-2005 range.  richmond isnt making gears for the ol 10 bolt anymore, maybe they will move up to making a 4.875 sized ring at a better ratio.  and maybe a lok-rite locker from someone too...... ahhh its good to dream.

also looking into this locker in Greece.

http://www.to4x4.gr/html/site/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2814&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

well the ARB air locker may not be possibal without switching diffs... but i bet you if the 2000-2005 style still use the 26 spline... then you can use the same locker as the 96-2000 models.. worth a try you can find a lockright for 275 range.. and if it doesnt work just send it back... it will for sure be out someday no doubt about that, but to get to that point someones gotta be willing to try... if you find out that the lockright will fit with some modifications... well now all you gotta do is come up with a locker style that drops right in to work or some type of adapter and you will  have a nice side buisness being the first on the market with it... its always the first people that try something new that gotta pay the big bucks... but they are also the ones that can usually make the most money off sharing the secrets...

Check out the RRO site for lockers:

http://www.rocky-road.com/kickdrive.html

They say the the lockrite fits GVs thru 2001, so that suggests a design change for 2002.  However, the Suzuki Parts list groups 99-03 together, and there doesn't seem to be any change in the third member, crownwheel and pinion for the 04 model either (last year my list covers).  So maybe the lockrite for the sidekick fits the GV thru 05.  Some models may need side couplers (whatever they are) and others not?

Btw, those Suzuki parts are different in the Sidekick and the XL-7, but of course I can't tell from the list what the differences may be.

ARB fit my 2000 GV.  Axles are 26 spline, and 4.88 ring gear fit the diff.