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1600 8V ECM Question

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mudfkr

1600 8V ECM Question
« on: September 28, 2005, 07:59:54 PM »
Hi,

Can any one tell me what the two components I've circled  in red do they are hard to see but on Left side one's in middle and other's at the top. They were leaking and I've had them replaced but I'm just wondering what they actually do.






Cheers, Mudfkr.

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2005, 08:56:19 PM »
That's what they say ruins the ECMs in
the zooks, they say a bad batch of Caps
got in and assembled

Wild
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And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2005, 04:43:39 AM »
They are there to smooth out noise on the power supplies. The middle one is the 5V supply for the ECU and sensors and the top one is on the 12V supply for the injectors. IIRC they have an 85C temperature rating. The replacements should be at least that as the higher temp devices have a better ripple rating (higher power dissipation) and longer life. The 85C devices should last about 10 years but it varies a lot depending on the application. Those caps are a 'wet' electrolytic, there are better types about now that won't leak. Solid Aluminium and Tantalum are used for military applications.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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mudfkr

Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2005, 05:13:54 AM »
I knew they were capacitors I was just wondering what role they played in the ECM.

The trucklet that I took it out of I've never had running. When I brought it, it had been sitting for  ages and the guy told me that he went and took the fuel tank out after a long time of it sitting there, banged some dents out of it and put it back in and it wouldn't run. So he figured he fudged some thing up with the fuel pump.

I brought it unconcerned that it wasn't running and then some one offered to buy the ecm so I popped it open and had a look in it to make sure there was no obvious signs of damage and thats when I found the leaking Cap's. I'm going to try it on my trucklet before I sell it to the guy now just to see if it was the problem after all.

Thanks for the replies.

 

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Offline Zukipilot

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2005, 05:36:52 AM »
A cap is a stored energy source. It 'charges' to a certain level then supplies (releases) a good constant voltage to what ever is down lind on the circut board. It keeps voltage from droping and/or peaking causing inconsistant performance.

The best modern example of this is in a high power car stero. If caps are not used, the High power amps can over power the Alt and battery causing the amp's to shut down temporarly due to low voltage. The same thing could happen to your vehicles ECU if the cap's did not supply constant voltage causing your vehicle to quit running.

HTH,
Zig
Zukipilot
'92 Liberty Overland Sidekick

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2005, 08:20:08 AM »
I used Tantalum Caps in the MegaSquirt
when I built it.
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2005, 11:59:41 AM »
I used Tantalum Caps in the MegaSquirt
when I built it.

I use Tants in all my designs its standard practice. You don't want to have one of thse fail on you though cos they can REALLY burn. I had one board that had been in service for 6 months, I had it on the bench while I was using it to test another board and suddenly, woof 4" high flames, they are real difficult to extinguish too. Turned out that when the outside contractor did the silkscreen markings for the PCB they put the '+' sign at the wrong end - worked fine for 6 months too.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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mudfkr

Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2005, 01:13:24 PM »

I didn't think you had a clue ;D


Your probably right ! :P

I know what resisters, Caps, and  most the other bits are I just didn't know what purpose they served on the board. I probably should have worded my ? a bit better but I was rushing off to work at the time  ;D 

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2005, 10:35:21 PM »
I've got an 89' 8V, the ECU is fine,
lots of hours and cycles as well as
miles, seems to me some bad stuff
got out and assembled, but should
the ECU ever die, MegaSquirt will be
the new ECU
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2005, 04:39:39 AM »
All that aside, does it work now?
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline Mythose

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2005, 02:51:42 PM »
My .2 on the caps, alot of these caps made it one computer main boards, and leak alot, when i ran accros the first instance it was a gigabyte board, i called gigabyte and they informed me that  the failure had accoured because of a faulty substrait, that was used in the production of the caps, that the cap manufacturer had purchased from a company at a cheeper rate then the usual provider,  this faulty substraight has also been known to cause some drive controler chips found fugitsu hard drives to over heat, and in some cases the chip will actually explode.


any way that is what i go from gigabyte ppl, i had 6 boards in a week fail, so I actually called the manufacturer,all with leaky caps,  gigabyte replace the caps "free of charge" and the boards worked fine.  all of these boards were 4 years old and out of warrenty, but the warrentyed them any way. i ramble i know.  but gigabyte is the only one that will replace the caps for free. if the oard is out of warrenty.
All things must start and end, the key is to not let them start and end in the same place.

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Offline TN_Tracker

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2005, 05:32:06 PM »
Do you know what the design life is? AFAIK it has never been published. if you don't then how can you say that they failed prematurely? The earliest of these units are over 15 years old now. You pretty much accused the cap manufacturers of a crime which is just plain wrong.

You know, I went back and deleted anything I said before this post since you seem to think you know everything about electronic components, counterfeit parts and PCB assembly. Just how many PCB's have you built? I've built thousands and furthermore I never said the OEM committed a crime. I'm done with the subject! >:(

I'm a Proud Member of Team BlueRibbon Coalition & Tread Lightly, are you?

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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2005, 10:26:06 PM »
(My .2 on the caps,)      Man this inflation stuff is killing me.  ;D
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

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mudfkr

Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2005, 01:50:42 AM »
All that aside, does it work now?

In my truck no, So the guy could be right and the fuel pump has crapped itself but that doesn't worry me anyway cause I'm so over 8 valves now after I picked up a complete 16v trucklet for $500  ;D

In the other guys trucklet who's brought the ECM off me yes runs fine, in fact he's so over the moon he gave me twice as much as I was asking for the ECM to start with ! It had been sitting for 18 months ECM less and once I plugged it in put some jumper cables on and fired straight in to life  8)

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 1600 8V ECM Question
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2005, 12:49:27 PM »
Just how many PCB's have you built?

Well you asked so...
I can't claim to have built thousands. I design electonics for a defence company so its low volume stuff. It has to be high reliabilty, in service life requirements are up to 30 years and MTBFs are a minimum of 15,000 hours. The boards have to withsatnd extremes of temperature and often extremely instable power supplies. I have designed electronics for nuclear submarines, ships, aircraft and tanks. The PCB layout is done by an outside contractor to my guidelines and I get the final say on the artwork. All components and raw materials for equipment certified for airworthiness must be traceable by batch number back to the time and place of manufacture. I spend a lot of time investigating suitable components in addition we use MIL HDBK 217F for reliability predictions.
I don't have any axe to grind with you. I apologise if I misinterpreted your comment, I have deleted that post.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2005, 12:54:41 PM by Rhinoman »
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org