I don't know Mythose.....

    I looked at some of those videos after you and Snofalls made your comments on the other thread.

    Over the years I've had the chance to go 1/4 mile in 9 sec, over 185mph on the road race course, flown aerobatics at all kinds of angles, saw the dark side of 50,000 feet and got to ride back seat at the speed of sound.
    But you guys are crazy, those angles scare **** outta me

Zag

i love my IFS regardless of what anyone else says or does.

people always say go SAS and be done with it. but i will be keeping the IFS all the way. a lot of reasons have been already mentioned, but for me, i think the main reason is for the clearance.

i am aiming for about 25" or so under the front crossmember, this is where the back of the front diff bolts too.

clearance is everything, maybe not so much for other things, but on what i have to drive up here, it is. theres a lot of mud, and bog holes up here, and i usually find that the front xmember usually becomes a bulldozer half way through.

so clearing the front and middle of the vit, and letting the rear diff drag isnt such a big problem. also, when in those giant ruts, i would like to get the tyres digging in instead of the chassis.

and the moment, i have about 16" from bottom of chassis rail to flat ground half way between front and rear tyres.

other measurements that people can use to compare is the door handle height, measured from underside of door handle to ground. front xmember, and rear diff clearances too. and wheel base and width/track.

maybe we should all get some measurements, and start another thread to compare where our trucklets sit. i;m thinking its can only be a good thing if you have a goal to work towards.

IFS all the way boys.

    I'll be the first to admit that I haven't done much serious off roading but I've done a pile of other stuff and I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone seems to want rid of the IFS on the Kicks.
   I see the IFS being an advantage
-  Better ride on and off road
-  Should be able to power down better when the going
  gets tough
-  Should be able to take extreme angles better without
  upsetting the vehicle

    For the minimal extremish off roading I do I would never consider getting rid of the IFS.

    But I would really like to understand what I'm missing
cause I figure I must be missing something, right?

Zag

This is awesome.    
(I love the opportunity to help people see the light)

Incase you want to know, this topic has been hashed in great length and a search would reveal pages and pages of nothing but opinions.

And here's mine!
again.

-  Better ride on and off road

Define 'better'.  
Are we talking STOCK Sidekick IFS then I'd probably say;
*IFS is probably smoother on and off road, if you call off-road gravel plowed roads.  (which I'd call 'on road')  
If you call off-road the Rubicon, I haven't seen or ever heard of a stock Sidekick IFS make it through the CON yet.  (I've heard of stock SAS jeeps making it though)
Better to me is being able to go places my stock one wouldn't go.

*IFS is probably weaker on/off road, compared too stock toyota SAS trucks (using toyotas as an example as its a pretty good representation of the first place people who do SAS go to) as there are more moving parts to fail on IFS and they are just plain old smaller/weaker.
Better to me is not having to replace stock parts that fail when put into heavy duty use.

-  Should be able to power down better when the going
  gets tough

* Again define 'power down',
Is 'power down' the ability to take more torque?  
If so, better to me might be my want to take a Toyota Birfield joint over a Sidekick CV joint.

-  Should be able to take extreme angles better without
  upsetting the vehicle

* One could assume you are talking about CG and the roll over prone 'Sammy' comparison.  But I think that this would dig up whole nother can of worms.

Over all, I'd say that most people have their reasons for getting rid of IFS.  I'd say that the number one reason is for strength.  Fixed suspensions can generally take more punishment over movable ones.  
Straight lines are generally stronger than curved ones.
(leaf springs, straight axles)
Levers exert more force.  IFS = bunch of levers.

SAS are easier to design, build and fix over the long haul.  

(which is one of the reasons why solid axles were invented/implemented first over IFS to begin with.)

If you follow this thought through you can see where we are going...
Are we there yet?

Can you imagine building an IFS charriot suspension, with nothing more then casting technology?

Can you imagine building an IFS wooden wagon suspension, with nothing more than pine trees for repairs?

Can you imagine IFS on an air-plane? Awefully heavy when a solid axle does just the same.

Can you imagine IFS on Monster Trucks?  Stronger is better than flexiable.  (they are finally getting around to IFS here, but it's taken years and TONS-O-Cash.

Can you imagine IFS on baja racers?  
(You can now because they have millions of dollars to spend on exotic parts and learn from and are able to apply to their vehicles and have crews paid to follow them around when they brake things.)
Motorcycles make it great because they have a solid axles!
ATVs don't.

So its really quite simple.
Some people have pushed their technological limits of the Suzuki Sidekick IFS design and needed it for something more.

Some people have over come of of those technological limits by designing their own majorly improved IFS systems and are doing great things with them.

Those of us who haven't gotten there and need a solution now, turn to SAS.



~Nate

Thanks for the exacting opinion Natebert
    I can see where you get your point of view and now hav an understanding of the why.
    By the same token I see that while it's the simple solution and the most popular due to current cost I think the 4WIS is going to come in the future..

    Till then or till I can work up the nerve to try some of this more extreme stuff, at least I gots duh info as to the why?

thanks

Zag

Although I will be keeping My IFS...
Bigger Tires = More Ground Clearance
More Lift is needed for bigger tires
SAS = More lift

Can you imagine IFS on baja racers?  
(You can now because they have millions of dollars to spend on exotic parts and learn from and are able to apply to their vehicles and have crews paid to follow them around when they brake things.)

Nathan, your slipping

Baja buggies are 4WIS and they break stuff  
but you knew that huh.

Wild

Yes i think we can all apply the cost sinario,  but a properly built IFS will exact less force on the driving parts and break less, but it will cost a lot more, 4wIS breaks because it is not beefy enough, i know how to impliment my suspension in a form that would work, but it would break in really extreen condition, and you would have body roll,  now i am looking into ways to make it bombproof, because; in extreme you dont want it to break.

it costs alot more to make a titanium suspension for a truck then it does for an RC.

and parts still got bent /broke doing jumps on the baja RCs with titanium parts.  i dont think anything can be made not to break, cause if it does not break we will find harder places to go, and if it extends our reaches eventualy everything will break, we are limited to wree we can go on our equipment, which is limited on our budget.

Here is another common reason that I am surpised nobody has mentioned yet, ARTICULATION and SUSPENSION TRAVEL.  A solid axle on both ends of the vehicle is much easier to make travel.  The only limits to suspension travel is the length of the shocks.  On an IFS, CV length and angles are most often the limiting factors.  Anybody that has messed with an IFS much knows that if you get 12" travel out of it, you are doing very well.  If you want to get a hint of "real" travel, just take a look at any of Heathers posts at the bottom where there are pics of her Kick flexed.  Try that with an IFS.

Not to mention, with IFS, when your suspension is compressed, your ground clearance is DECREASED.  Imagine dropping off of a 10" ledge that has a rock at the bottom right under where your diff is.  With a solid axle, your diff will stop going down when your tires hit bottom and, assuming you have enough GC to begin with, miss said rock.  With an IFS, your diff will continue down when the tires hit bottom due to suspension compression sending your diff straight into the rock.  Just one more thing to consider.  
It aint for everybody, but to the hard core enthusiast, it has many advantages.

I will after patenting release The info to get the flex out of the IFS / IRS, and when I hold patend, I will release rights to thoes capable of building there own units. i have been workin on it and am close to haveing body roll eleminated and mantaining strength. And would be verry hapy after patend to strike deals with aftermarket manufacturers that support the off road communitty, and verry not intrested in doing buissnes with thoes that dont, it might have a market in aftermarket general use as bolt on kits, and it may be to expensive, but i KNOW there will be a market for it in competition rock crawling, and off road raceing.  

sorry if I offend anyone with this, but I want to target the competition market for revenue,  now for the guys that have the knowledge and want to just do it, after patends finalize we could come to an agreement about the desgins for you, at minimal to no cost,  and if it is already patend ideal, I will post drawings auto cad models specs measurments that can be applied to any vehicle, given the righ knowledge.

And I want to see it in motion with a feesable price for the consumer, and made of what it needs to be made of for strengh,

but i cant post the knowledge of 12 years of desgin and look up next month and say "hay that was my ideal" had that experiance in a desgin competion for GM in high school.

I will after patenting release The info to get the flex out of the IFS / IRS, and when I hold patend, I will release rights to thoes capable of building there own units. i have been workin on it and am close to haveing body roll eleminated and mantaining strength. And would be verry hapy after patend to strike deals with aftermarket manufacturers that support the off road communitty, and verry not intrested in doing buissnes with thoes that dont, it might have a market in aftermarket general use as bolt on kits, and it may be to expensive, but i KNOW there will be a market for it in competition rock crawling, and off road raceing.  

sorry if I offend anyone with this, but I want to target the competition market for revenue,  now for the guys that have the knowledge and want to just do it, after patends finalize we could come to an agreement about the desgins for you, at minimal to no cost,  and if it is already patend ideal, I will post drawings auto cad models specs measurments that can be applied to any vehicle, given the righ knowledge.

And I want to see it in motion with a feesable price for the consumer, and made of what it needs to be made of for strengh,

but i cant post the knowledge of 12 years of desgin and look up next month and say "hay that was my ideal" had that experiance in a desgin competion for GM in high school.

Good luck, Hope it works out for you.  I like to see that kind of engineering, but for me it is just too expensive and complicated.

allright ive had enough . ifs has its place ,on the road ,doing the dessert races trophy trucks etc. but rockcrawling ,not yet . the red bull s10 was 4wis,and after half of a season he went back to solid axels , he did pretty well but he felt the independent suspension was holding him back . i saw the writeup in 4wd and sport i think wile he was building it . he has some serious $$$$$ in it and it looked asome . but its not beig used anymore to my knolage .
yes ifs can crawl but the amount of mods you have to do to get it to work in rocks just isnt worth it to me. not to menton lack of wheele travel.
i love my sas tracker, i want a ifs but for prerunning not rockcrawling . and as cheep as zooks are why not have  a different one for everything .

lol loveing it, and I will post when the papers get back from patend, but yes it would be cheeper to have 2 zooks.

what is the BAC limit for posting?

what is the BAC limit for posting?

.08