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SAS -average driver-Suspension: Leafs vs Coils

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GRVIT

SAS -average driver-Suspension: Leafs vs Coils
« on: May 07, 2005, 05:00:09 AM »
 Hi ,Sorry if this issue has been already discussed somewhere in here,I dont have the time to search again so many pages.If there is somewhere such discussion,give me the linkand remove the post.If not ,post your opinion.What is best for a SAS or a truck with solid axles ?
I m ready to start a swap (IFS to Solid) and I still cant decide as everyday I get different opinions .... ::)  
« Last Edit: May 07, 2005, 11:12:31 PM by GRVIT »

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Offline mesjr2004

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Re: Suspension - SAS: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2005, 07:44:05 AM »
IMO coils are the ticket ,and not that much harder to install. i have a sas tracker on coils and love it . and i also think it looks cleaner .you dont have to build a frame out of the front of your rig to place the shackles for the leaves . and lots of flex

« Last Edit: May 07, 2005, 07:49:24 AM by mesjr2004 »

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GRVIT

Re: Suspension - SAS: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2005, 11:42:17 AM »
do you have any photos or a link to see it ?

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Offline safarikick

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Offline HotRod

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Re: Suspension - SAS: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2005, 04:36:09 PM »
No pics of the front suspinion but it still looks perty interesting ;D
Nice switch set up though ;D
95 2dr Geo Tracker with Calmini 6"inch combo lift, 32'inch BFGs M/Tlocked and loaded--D.D is my 06 Racy RED Aerio SX AWD

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Offline mesjr2004

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« Last Edit: May 07, 2005, 04:46:16 PM by mesjr2004 »

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Offline explosivo

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Re: Suspension - SAS: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2005, 09:23:10 PM »
Coils, budget willing. Definately the best performing of the two.
omghi2.us[/url]
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Offline overkill

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Re: Suspension - SAS: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2005, 09:25:25 PM »
Coils will give a better all round performance. IMO
SAM

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GRVIT

Re: Suspension - SAS: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2005, 10:03:34 PM »
I m sure coils are better.I m not sure though what is best for the average driver as it concerns,knowledge on modifications,time available,cost and percentage of doing the job right.
I m in this position ,you know.And still cant decide clearly.
Maybe I should make the question in a different way.
What is best for a begginer or average driver that is going to do a SAS? Coils or leafs ?  :)

I really like the coil set up mesjr2004 has,its very good.I really like the links.WildWeasels' also.And I also like Heather's-Nate's leaf set up.Great articulation.
To me ,a leaf spring set up seems easier to do and has nice offroad performance for a leaf set up.But I would like to have a coil set up  :) .The problem is that I dont feel so confident about doing it right,since all I have as guide is photos and advises.Never seen a swap live.
And also there another thing I would like to know.Which one (coil vs Leafs-spring under and spring over) provide more stability and control offroad,on the grounds that both set ups are done right ?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2005, 10:27:35 PM by GRVIT »

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Offline zooky

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Re: SAS -average driver-Suspension: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2005, 11:51:50 PM »
Wildweasel is selling his  :'(

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Offline explosivo

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Re: SAS -average driver-Suspension: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2005, 11:08:12 AM »
Coils, set up properly, would probably perform the best on-road as well... no bump-steer or any other leaf-associated problems. But then again, you do have to set it up correctly so that it's safe to drive :-/

I'm leaning back towards leafs... I'm thinking coils are going to cost more than I want to spend at the time... and since it's going to be primarily driven offroad, it should be fine.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2005, 11:11:35 AM by explosivo »
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GRVIT

Re: SAS -average driver-Suspension: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2005, 11:27:32 AM »
Quote
Coils, set up properly, would probably perform the best on-road as well... no bump-steer or any other leaf-associated problems. But then again, you do have to set it up correctly so that it's safe to drive :-/

Excactly.Mine is a daily driver.About cost,this period,I go t a new body (after the recent roll over) ,the kicker 3 is on its way.....I can still afford to do a coil set up,but I dont know if I can afford to make alignments and corrections for a long period if its not done right from the first time...
As I was searching I also found this comment from a guy that chose leafs (link :http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/solidaxle/index2.html )
"Why I Chose Leaf Spring and not Coil Springs ?
I have had at least 10 different people ask me why I chose to go with a leaf spring and not a coil front suspension. The main advantage I can see to a coil font suspension is comfort. A coil suspension will give a smoother ride than a leaf spring ever will (with the possible exception of fiberglass leaves). The problem with a coil setup is that is is very difficult to get the mounting points correctly placed. I have experimented with using different connecting links in the back of my 4Runner and I found that the angle of the links to each other is very important. I have heard of two other second generation 4Runners like mine with front coil suspensions. Both turned out poorly and one is still undriveable to this day due to instability above 35 MPH. I do not know anyone qualified to design a good coil suspension. It would take weeks or months of experimenting to get the positioning of the links correct.
As for travel,  I believe that I can get as much travel as I would ever want from a leaf spring suspension. First tests showed over 20" of travel with the leaf spring swap. I have seen other trucks with 24" of front travel using similar Alcan springs. I know and trust the front leaf spring design. The highway ride you get from Alcan springs is better than any other leaf spring I have ever used. I am very happy with the swap and look forward to testing it on the trail."

On the other hand ,I m thinking ...all it is ,is just 3 links on the front (2 left-1 right)  and a Panhard....The fact that it seems easy to me where others see it as very difficult makes me even more worried.....
I can leave the rear as it is (Calmini 3") or at least make some minor adjustments...But is it going to be like that?
Guess not...
Coils are good,the best, but the more I think about the posibility of not doing it right and the after swap period with who knows how many adjustments will be needed and also the fact that its a daily driver  ,the more I m leaning back towards leafs.
If it wasnt a daily driver but a second truck only for offroad driving,I m sure I would have already decide to go for coils.
Last ,till now ,from all the searching I ve done on the net about solid axle swap,I found out that approximately 8 out of 10 that do a sas for the first time ,they use leafs and 6 out of those 8 are doing SPOA....... :-/
« Last Edit: May 08, 2005, 11:39:08 AM by GRVIT »

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Offline Natebert

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Re: SAS -average driver-Suspension: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2005, 02:30:58 PM »
Quote

Excactly.Mine is a daily driver.About cost,this period,I go t a new body (after the recent roll over) ,the kicker 3 is on its way.....I can still afford to do a coil set up,but I dont know if I can afford to make alignments and corrections for a long period if its not done right from the first time...
As I was searching I also found this comment from a guy that chose leafs (link :http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/solidaxle/index2.html )
"Why I Chose Leaf Spring and not Coil Springs ?
I have had at least 10 different people ask me why I chose to go with a leaf spring and not a coil front suspension. The main advantage I can see to a coil font suspension is comfort. A coil suspension will give a smoother ride than a leaf spring ever will (with the possible exception of fiberglass leaves). The problem with a coil setup is that is is very difficult to get the mounting points correctly placed. I have experimented with using different connecting links in the back of my 4Runner and I found that the angle of the links to each other is very important. I have heard of two other second generation 4Runners like mine with front coil suspensions. Both turned out poorly and one is still undriveable to this day due to instability above 35 MPH. I do not know anyone qualified to design a good coil suspension. It would take weeks or months of experimenting to get the positioning of the links correct.
As for travel,  I believe that I can get as much travel as I would ever want from a leaf spring suspension. First tests showed over 20" of travel with the leaf spring swap. I have seen other trucks with 24" of front travel using similar Alcan springs. I know and trust the front leaf spring design. The highway ride you get from Alcan springs is better than any other leaf spring I have ever used. I am very happy with the swap and look forward to testing it on the trail."

On the other hand ,I m thinking ...all it is ,is just 3 links on the front (2 left-1 right)  and a Panhard....The fact that it seems easy to me where others see it as very difficult makes me even more worried.....
I can leave the rear as it is (Calmini 3") or at least make some minor adjustments...But is it going to be like that?
Guess not...
Coils are good,the best, but the more I think about the posibility of not doing it right and the after swap period with who knows how many adjustments will be needed and also the fact that its a daily driver  ,the more I m leaning back towards leafs.
If it wasnt a daily driver but a second truck only for offroad driving,I m sure I would have already decide to go for coils.
Last ,till now ,from all the searching I ve done on the net about solid axle swap,I found out that approximately 8 out of 10 that do a sas for the first time ,they use leafs and 6 out of those 8 are doing SPOA....... :-/


This is funny to read.

All of these thoughts went through our mind when we did ours too.  "Coil shouldn't be THAT hard to setup should it?  Well wait, what about all of that geometry."  
Its not that I can't do the math or geometry, it's just that I  don't know what works and what doesn't.  I don't know what is crucial to get right and what I can fudge a bit on.
I don't know because I've never done it.

Good luck with this.

~Nate

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GRVIT

Re: SAS -average driver-Suspension: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2005, 03:49:27 PM »
 That's it Nate  :)  What about Geometry.......

O.k

One other thought that goes around my mind when I m leaning back towards leafs is that if its going to be leafs,I m not going to do  a spring under.On the other hand,I reallly dont know how a spring over will make my little lightweight 2 door open top behave out there......From all the videos I ve seen ,
most of the Samurai's (not too many SWB Kick's with leafs) with YJ leafs -SPOA- seems to have a tendency to roll over at sudden changes of slope-weight.

This is the only negative thought I have about doing leafs till now.
Any comments from Samurai (or maybe SWB Sidekick's )members here with YJ leaf set up ?  Or from anyone that knows how a YJ leaf set up on a SWB lightweight truck performs ?

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Offline Natebert

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Re: SAS -average driver-Suspension: Leafs vs Coils
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2005, 02:26:54 AM »
Quote
That's it Nate  :)  What about Geometry.......

O.k

One other thought that goes around my mind when I m leaning back towards leafs is that if its going to be leafs,I m not going to do  a spring under.On the other hand,I reallly dont know how a spring over will make my little lightweight 2 door open top behave out there......From all the videos I ve seen ,
most of the Samurai's (not too many SWB Kick's with leafs) with YJ leafs -SPOA- seems to have a tendency to roll over at sudden changes of slope-weight.

This is the only negative thought I have about doing leafs till now.
Any comments from Samurai (or maybe SWB Sidekick's )members here with YJ leaf set up ?  Or from anyone that knows how a YJ leaf set up on a SWB lightweight truck performs ?



I think that our sway bars help control this alot!

Unfortunately, I've never wheeled our Sidekick without them to know otherwise.  

~Nate