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Hagen Widening Mod Questions, and Diff Drop

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Offline JollyZuk

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Hagen Widening Mod Questions, and Diff Drop
« on: December 22, 2017, 07:12:37 AM »
I have to replace the half shafts on my 'Kick.  Seems like a good time/excuse to do the widening mod, and swap to 2 left shafts.  If I recall from the write ups I have seen, it seems like it mentioned using 3 of the bolt on flanges to make the spacer for the driver shaft after widening.  While I don't have access to 3 extra shafts, I do have access to an assortment of steel that I could make a spacer out of.  How wide does this spacer need to be?  If I was also to do a diff drop at the same time, would that effect the spacer requirements?  I have seen the diff drop brackets, both manufactured and home brew.  I have been looking under the front end...I am wondering about using the stock brackets and using plates to make some dropped mounting points for the diff brackets.  There is enough frame material that I could bolt the brackets thru the original mounting hole and weld them also.  And to that end, anyone see a down side to dropping the diff with just 2" lift?  I plan to go to 4" soonish, so I would need the drop then...but I would like to get all of the front end/diff work done at once.
Thanks for any and all comments and advise!

Also to add further info...
1995 Sidekick 4 door...2" spacer lift.  I plan to sooner than later swap out the stock springs and spacers for an Explorer/ZJ Jeep spring combo, and once I iron out the diff drop try to put spacers back in for 4ish" lift.  I am just running 235/75 tires, and will probably stay with that for the time being (tires will have to be replaced before I can lift it more...as in next month).


Merry Christmas!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 08:14:32 AM by JollyZuk »
1995 Sidekick JLX
16v 5 spd, milled head, LROR Stage 2 clutch
2" Spacer lift, XL7 rear springs,  2nd Gen front springs, W-Body GM Struts on front
OEM ROOF RACK!!!

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Offline BRD HNTR

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Re: Hagen Widening Mod Questions, and Diff Drop
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2017, 09:03:29 PM »
When doing the widening mod you are moving the back hole out, which moves the outer end of CV outward and forward.  Next you are cutting the inner shaft off and welding a plate (off the end of a left side inner axle, or similar plate).  Where (what length) you weld the plate on the new cut off inner shaft sets if and what thickness your spacer would have to be.  So done correctly a spacer is not required.
To further complicate this modification, the CV shafts are slanted both backward and downward.  So as you move the back hole out, the CV shafts get straighter and therefore do not move the inner end out as much as the outer end because the decrease in angles pushes it in slightly.
Do not try to lengthen the Stock Diff Brackets.  They can be welded, but the heat makes them brittle, and will break at the weld easily.  Make your longer ones out of 1/4" plate, or buy them.  (Kreator makes good ones.)
With any more than a 2" lift dropping a tire and turning hard frequently eats CV joints, without a diff drop bracket.
Down side of lowering the diff is that it is lower and in better position to smack on big rocks.  I recommend a skid pan.  Bigger tires moves it back up, but decreases you gearing leverage.

Every modification begets another modification.
93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.

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Offline JollyZuk

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Re: Hagen Widening Mod Questions, and Diff Drop
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 06:08:24 PM »
So  maybe I did not understand the write up on the Hagan mod. I thought on the driver side it showed weldIng 3 of the driver axle flanges together to make a spacer between the axle and stub shaft flange.   That is what I am concerned about.  On the diff drop what I was thinking is welding plates over the factory diff mounting location and drilling new holes 2” lower in the new plates.   I am wondering about doing the Hagan mod and diff drop at the same time (when I replace the half shafts).  Is there a concern with dropping the diff with only a 2” lift, other than reduced ground clearance?  I have begun building a front skid plate, but have not finished that quite yet.
1995 Sidekick JLX
16v 5 spd, milled head, LROR Stage 2 clutch
2" Spacer lift, XL7 rear springs,  2nd Gen front springs, W-Body GM Struts on front
OEM ROOF RACK!!!

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Offline BRD HNTR

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Re: Hagen Widening Mod Questions, and Diff Drop
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2017, 12:06:06 AM »
Every modification begets another modification.
When doing the widening modification, it comes to mind to do a stub shaft conversion so both sides use the same left side  CV shaft (which is much easier to change out and you also only need one spare on the trail).  So if doing that one could have the stub shaft built just a little longer and not need the flange welded to the other side.  Also having the stub shaft a little longer leaves a little more room for bolts as the flange on the right side is very close to the diff mount bolts on the diff housing.
The one thing to remember is that the holes you drill have to be in exactly the same position on both sides.  If one side is different then the castor will be different and the steering will have a tendency to pull one side, which can  not be corrected by alignment.
On the diff drop brackets, I had not thought of doing it that way.  One could bolt the extension plate, but I would not just weld it to a plate.  Welding steel to cast is not very reliable.  If you don't need them now, you have time to build them right.  (I have taken lots of short cuts, and doing it right the first time will make you much happier every time.)

93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.

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Offline JollyZuk

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Re: Hagen Widening Mod Questions, and Diff Drop
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2017, 02:53:45 PM »
I was planning to bolt/weld plates and just bolt them to the diff brackets.
http://www2.zukiworld.com/feature_hagan_frontendmod/
In this article in the last paragraph it mentions welding up a spacer and that is what is confusing me.
1995 Sidekick JLX
16v 5 spd, milled head, LROR Stage 2 clutch
2" Spacer lift, XL7 rear springs,  2nd Gen front springs, W-Body GM Struts on front
OEM ROOF RACK!!!

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Offline BRD HNTR

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Re: Hagen Widening Mod Questions, and Diff Drop
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2017, 12:28:23 AM »
In that article you will need 4 left side inner diff axles.  Cut three shafts 3 bolt plades off flush with the plates.  Stack two plates on the remaining axle shaft (I recommend bolting them tightly together) and weld them so you have a really thick end (and then remove the bolts if you used them as I suggested).  Use the remaining cut off plate to make a stub axle shaft for the right side.  Cutting where Mike says creates the extra length so you do not need a spacer on this side.

Now the possible side effect of the brake caliper hitting on the spring can be exciting as it doesn't happen all the time, mostly when stuffing a wheel when turning hard (climbing up over something).  With the tire out further the increased leverage on the springs causes them to bow outward, and then turning hard when the are compressed further Bowing out even more and it pushes the caliper and forces brake fluid back into the reservoir.  As this occurred on my Tracker I lowered the suspension enough to remove the spring, and cut around 80% of the outside of the spring cup and pried it up about 1".  I took a piece of 1" x 1/8" flat stock and bent it into a ring that would fit into the slot I made around the spring cup and weld it in place.  This will give you more than one inch of lift and make the spring stand more in line with the top spring cup, without bowing.  I was having this happen without the widening mod, but I was using two inch spring spacers for lift.
93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.

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Offline JollyZuk

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Re: Hagen Widening Mod Questions, and Diff Drop
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2017, 11:04:56 AM »
I have read your build thread and definitely looking into modifying the spring cups. I am considering putting Ranger front springs under it, and am contemplating modifying the spring cup so I can leave the pig tail on the ford spring and use the ford spring retainer on the bottom.
For the immediate I am just wondering how thick the spacer on the driver side ends up being so I can decide if I need to scrounge for some extra axles or if I can just build a solid spacer. I also came across a build thread where the control arm was modified to move the ball joint mounting point. I am mulling an idea that would require little to no modification to the arm and so could be easily reversed. I have some 1x4 solid steel bar and I am thinking about making an adaptor that would bolt to the bottom of the control arm in the original ball joint mounting holes and I could drill a second set of holes for the modified ball joint placement. It would drop the ball joint 1” and I could lay out where I want the ball joint placed.  I think building the adapter I could keep better control of exact placement and be more precise between the sides.  Then again I may just be crazy. I am guessing even if I go this route I will still need the spacer on the driver side.
1995 Sidekick JLX
16v 5 spd, milled head, LROR Stage 2 clutch
2" Spacer lift, XL7 rear springs,  2nd Gen front springs, W-Body GM Struts on front
OEM ROOF RACK!!!