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Bad hub bearings

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Offline nprecon

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Bad hub bearings
« on: May 25, 2016, 08:37:03 AM »
Developed a vibration at around 50MPH on Buster and the vibration continued to intensify as my speed increased through about 64MPH.  My thoughts immediately went to my recent transmission rebuild but then the vibration didn't feel like it was centered in the gear box so I ruled that out.  I decided to rotate my tires and check the suspension. I've had tires that produced a vibration... but then they typically did this when first mounted. I haven't had one suddenly develop a vibration unless the tire was damaged or defective.

I pulled the front tires and began checking the suspension and hubs.  The passenger side appeared to be good... but the driver side had a LOT of lateral play in it.  Well... there's my sign.  Bad hub bearings.

I got my tools out and began stripping away the brake components and then unscrewed the WARN hub. As soon as I broke the last bolt loose the WARN hub released from the hub of the suspension.  This is what I was looking at.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 11:15:00 AM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2016, 08:43:57 AM »
I haven't seen hubs this dry and rusty before.  Thing is, I installed two new Moog hub assemblies at around 165K miles.  So... this has all occurred within 35K miles.  Additionally, I haven't had Buster off-road except to pull logs up a hill a few times.  I haven't crossed any creeks or had him in any water except for driving in the rain and snow on the road.  I never had this type of problem with Aisen hubs.

Note the sealing surface between the WARN locker and the hub assembly is clean.  My inner knuckle seal was still intact and in great shape as well.  The knuckle seals have been on the truck for about 50K miles.  I installed new ones at around 151K miles.  This tells me the moisture had to come from leakage in the WARN rotating cap.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 09:39:25 AM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 08:47:12 AM »
I began disassembling the front hub to replace it.  Here is a close-up of the bearing after I sprayed it with a half can of brake cleaner and then wiped some of the crud out it.  Here is the locking nut too.  I had to drill the four screws out of it to get the locking ring off.  The screws were seized in place as well.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 09:27:40 AM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2016, 08:54:18 AM »
The hub assembly had also seized firmly onto the the spindle of the Tracker.  I used a puller bracket and three 8X1.25 X110mm bolts along with a deep well socket to pull it off the spindle.  I coaxed it along with a 1 1/2# hammer on the ears.

The inner bearing assembly still wouldn't let go of the spindle and so the bearing assembly separated into two pieces.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 04:52:03 PM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2016, 09:01:32 AM »
I removed the four bolts from the front spindle.  I decided to pitch the dust cover because it was badly rusted and it wasn't going to last much longer.

I used my small press to press off the inner bearing race that was seized on the spindle using a large bearing press collar.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 04:52:31 PM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2016, 09:17:01 AM »
I cleaned all the parts up using the wire wheel on my grinder.  I coated all the parts with some quality lithium axle grease.  I even added some additional grease to the bearing assembly as well.   I spread a thin layer of RTV between the spindle mounting surface, then tightened down the four bolts.

I used a small drill press to run the cut-off screws out the back side of the round bearing tension nut and so I was able to re-use the same bearing tension nut.  These round bearing nuts cost $38 a piece at the dealer, and that was about six years ago.  They are probably closer to $40-$45 now. 

I torqued it to #158s using one of those Kent Moore specialty sockets with the four 6mm pins on it.  It is difficult to hold the socket on while torquing to that value... so I used a cargo strap.  I hooked one end under the control arm and the other to the coil spring and tightened the strap down against the head of the torque wrench to in order to hold it in position while I was torquing it.  Of course that is a relative torque value.  My torque wrench indicated it was #150+ pounds.

I was able to replace the four screws I drilled the heads off of at a local hardware store.  A REAL hardware store... the kind that carries a vast assortment of screws and bolts... not the "yuppy" hardware stores that appear to be in vogue across America today.

Installed the washer and snap ring back on.

I applied a thin layer of RTV to the hub and then installed the OEM fixed hub locks.  I'm done with the WARN locking hubs.  They may be great products, but they didn't work well for me for this application.  I'll pass on the WARN manual hubs.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 05:06:10 PM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline Perryd

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2016, 10:49:20 AM »
I wouldn't blame the hubs right away. I put some RTV on the mounting surface when installing the hubs. There was actually a gasket on the sammy I took my hubs off.

Good write up for someone changing a wheel bearing too. Ever since I got rid of my OEM wheel bearings I haven't been able to get any life out of them. I wonder if I should use more grease next time.

Also, My dust/heat shields are pretty well shot too. Anyone know where to get a replacement? Can't find them fro the usual sources.

1998 Tracker 2 door soft top, 3spd auto, 4x4, 215/57R15 BFG A/T, bone stock.

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 04:50:29 PM »
I used RTV to seal the WARN manual locking hubs to my hubs as well.  The hub still just fell off into my hand once the last screw was removed.  Usually the locking hubs require quite a bit of prying to remove.  Not this one.  Personally, I think moisture was penetrating through the rotating cap on the WARN manual hub lockers.  I checked a while back with WARN to see if they offered a rebuild kit or seal for their hubs.  They did not.  Their solution was to purchase a new set of manual hubs.

I guess if I had really been trail driving my Truck hard and had it submerged in water a lot, I would expect some moisture penetration like this.  If I drove him hard I would have been performing more preventive maintenance on him too.  That wasn't the case this time.  I've been pretty easy on the little fellow for quite a while now.

I totally agree with the OEM parts seeming having more longevity than after market parts.  These Moog wheel bearing assemblies are still manufactured in Japan.  I'll still use Moog parts, I'm just not going to be running any WARN hubs in the future.  While I welded my front diff into the "locked" position, it is now just an open differential so other than the CVs turning constantly and maybe wearing the seals on the carrier a little more, he'll run OK with the factory fixed hubs.

The vibration was greatly reduced when I took him out for a drive, however, I still can feel and hear a little vibration/rumble.  I suspect the passenger side is in bad shape as well.  I ordered another new Moog hub to install on the passenger side of the truck.  If the driver's side was as bad as it was, then I suspect the passenger side is little better.

Still, a couple new hubs (about $165 from Rock auto) and the Tracker will be running as smooth as ever.  I still love this little tin can truck. Even with 208K miles on him, (after I replace the other front hub assembly) I'd hop in him and drive him anywhere tomorrow.

I did have a link for replacement splash shields for the front rotors on my old computer.  I would have to fire it up again to see if the link is still on it and if those parts are still available.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 05:09:07 PM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline fordem

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 05:20:51 PM »
I'll mention it, even though I don't think it's the point of moisture ingress in this case, it has been for other folks suffering from shortened bearing life, and may be what's at the root of Perry's problem - there are two seals behind the knuckle, and Norm has already mentioned it, the spindle/knuckle mounting surface needs sealant.

I've been running SuperWinch hubs (I think they are relabeled AVMs), for a number of years, and if I recall correctly, those have an O-ring seal around the actuator knob - I'm in water fairly often (Guyana means land of many waters), and so far I've had no problems.  I have had the hubs off on a couple of occasions (to replace a CV boot, and also to change out the control arms) - there has been no sign of any moisture or rusting behind them, although the polished alloy outer surface shows some sign of pitting & corrosion.

Amazon has the SuperWinch hubs for $105, with free shipping.

Edit...



Although this is not the hub style that fits the Suzuki, it is typical of the SuperWinch hub construction - you can see the O-ring around the knob.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 06:39:52 PM by fordem »
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2016, 05:35:43 PM »
Thanks, Fordem.  I will check them out.

They appear to be of a different design than the WARN manual axle hubs.  The WARNs rotate almost 320 degrees from the lock to unlock positions.  Appears at face value, that much movement would be an inferior design to a much smaller rotation.

I have an old (as in no longer manufactured) 9K Superwinch on my Jeep (EPSi9?) that still functions flawlessly, so it wouldn't surprise me that Superwinch would also market a quality manual hub locker.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 06:08:24 AM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline Perryd

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2016, 04:39:19 PM »
You guys prob know the answer, but is the wheel bearing/knuckle/spindle different on the vitara's compared to the trackers. I was looking at the parts catalog and the tracker lists a hub assembly while the vitara lists a press in bearing. I have a set of complete vitara knuckles, and I would rather use them than the stock ones on my tracker now so I can to save money on wheel bearings. 
1998 Tracker 2 door soft top, 3spd auto, 4x4, 215/57R15 BFG A/T, bone stock.

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Offline fordem

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2016, 06:49:18 PM »
Since you already have them, why not compare them and let us know.

I'm not that familiar with the Trackers (presumably you're referring to a 99 or later Tracker also), but I know the Vitara/Grand Vitara used both styles of hub, and I believe they are interchangeable.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2016, 06:59:43 PM »
A quick check/comparison on the Rockauto.com website tells me a 2002 GV uses the SAME hub assembly (Moog #513193) as the one my 2002 Tracker uses. 

I didn't check the 2003 model year, but I'd bet nuts to donuts they are the very same.  Web catalogs are our friends.  They are free to boot!
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2016, 07:04:00 PM »
I'd like to know if there is a difference between the GV spindle assembly versus the Tracker.  That's an OEM part that I haven't found listed to compare yet.  I doubt they are the same part, but it would make it so much easier to switch to a larger rotor and disc brake caliper for larger tires.  I know I would have to move up to 16" rims, but I'm already considering those anyway.  Running larger and heavier tires, I would like more braking capacity.
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline fordem

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Re: Bad hub bearings
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2016, 07:43:50 PM »
On the Suzuki side of things the 99+ 1.6 Vitara (Grand Vitara in non-US markets) uses a smaller brake which I suspect may be the one used on the Trackers, and according to the parts catalogue, the actual spindle is the same part as that used on the 2.5 V6 Grand Vitara - in fact, that same spindle has been in use since '89, on the 2WD Sidekicks, on the later models, it is used on both 2WD & 4WD.

It appears that the only things that would need to swapped on the 1.6 Vitara to get the bigger brakes are the actual brake components - disk rotors, dust shields & loaded calipers

'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny