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Need Help, No ignition Spark

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Offline grizz

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Need Help, No ignition Spark
« on: March 12, 2012, 03:01:59 PM »
Newbie here,   I bought a non-running '98 Tracker 2wd w/Auto tranny.  The engine was just replaced and the guy told me it ran for 20 min then quit.  He had a Dist/coil pack he traded but made no difference.  He said it was a computer GUARENTEED so I bought a replacement off Ebay ( not tested/used ) and still have the problem.  I have checked all fuses,  added extra grounds between the battery and engine: engine and frame, and computer case and firewall.  I checked the crank sensor ( its good ) and have a full charge on the battery.

Help...... Please

Is there another computer that can be used on this model?  It has grey plugs. not green or yellow.

Danny
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Offline swanson

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 03:38:19 PM »
if you can borrow another distributor from someone and try that. i don't know about the 98 but my 89 had a bad igniter and the whole distributor cost less that just the broken igniter alone. i was having the exact same type of problem as you and that fixed it.
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Offline 87Suzi

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 04:49:51 PM »
I would be looking for a new computer too. Just in case, I had a vehicle that did that and I replaced EVERYTHING trying to figure it out if you know someone with a spare or if there is a good junkyard nearby you may want to try that if a dist doesn't work.
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Offline grizz

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 05:54:45 AM »
the '98 with 2wd and auto is the bastard child of sidekicks.  Its near impossible to find these computers.  Can a different model computer be used?? Even if it is running in a degraded mode, just to see if it is the computer ?   Also, there don't seem to be easy internal fixes to this computer. I've opened it up and the capacitors are not burned and it doesn't have the transstors the others have ???
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Offline swanson

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 01:59:17 PM »
I would try a new distributor before anything. I tried everything to get a spark in mine until i tried a new distributor. Also can you make the computer throw any error codes?
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 03:33:42 PM »
Does the Check Engine LIght come on at key on? have you scanned for codes? do the relays click at turn on? have you got access to any diagnostic equipment? throwing parts at it can get expensive very quickly.
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xoloski

Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 12:45:41 AM »
Just faced this issue myself.
My ECU was bad. There are three electrolytic capacitors that typically fail.
I replaced them all for $0.35 in parts and my labor to remove and replace the items from the printed circuit board of the ECM.
There are forum briefs that discuss the process and list parts sources.
Works like a champ now.
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Offline swanson

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 12:41:09 PM »
Quote from: xoloski on March 16, 2012, 12:45:41 AM
Just faced this issue myself.
My ECU was bad. There are three electrolytic capacitors that typically fail.
I replaced them all for $0.35 in parts and my labor to remove and replace the items from the printed circuit board of the ECM.
There are forum briefs that discuss the process and list parts sources.
Works like a champ now.

Jeez you work cheap! Can i get you to work on my stuff for those rates  :laugh:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 05:00:36 PM by swanson »
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Offline grizz

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 03:40:57 PM »
I know about the three Caps and have opened my ECU.  I'm betting yours is not a 98 model.  Eberything I can find says that the 96-98 is a different ECU and no fix is known / needed.  I contacted one member that repairs them and he hasn't seen this.  If anyone actually has a test they can do ,and then repair it, I'm all in.  The ecu # is :   30019941  72EB  3T

I have not been able to do a scan or check relays or check engine light yet.   But I will.
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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 08:27:50 AM »
Quote from: grizz on March 13, 2012, 05:54:45 AM
the '98 with 2wd and auto is the bastard child of sidekicks.  Its near impossible to find these computers.  Can a different model computer be used?? Even if it is running in a degraded mode, just to see if it is the computer ?   Also, there don't seem to be easy internal fixes to this computer. I've opened it up and the capacitors are not burned and it doesn't have the transstors the others have ???

Sidekicks newer than 95 rarely, if ever, have ECM issues.  Think about this....if the previous owner "knew" that the ECM was the issue, why didn't he replace it, before he sold it?  Wouldn't a running vehicle be worth considerably more than a non-running one?  I am always leery of people that "know" what the problem is, but fail to fix it before they try to sell the vehicle.  Generally, that means they either have no clue on what the problem is, or it is gonna cost a lot of $$$$ to fix the problem.
Since you have a sidekick sport, with the 1.8 engine, the only ECMs that interchange with it are other sidekick sport ECMs (and sidekick sports were only made from 96-98).  And for guaranteed compatibility, you need to find an ECM that has the exact same part number on it that yours does.  I did some quick research, and from what I read, only 98 sidekick sport ECMs will work in a 98 sport....96 and 97 sport ECMs are different (remember what I said about the previous owner...not replacing "known" bad parts...and $$$...I think now you know why).  There should be a 33920-72Exx number on the ECM somewhere.  That is the number that needs to be identical.  Any other numbers on the ECM should be irrelevant.
Just randomly replacing parts, without knowing for sure they are bad, is stupid and expensive.  So at least test parts, to make sure they do not test within spec and/or aren't outputting the correct signal, before you replace them.
One more thing that may be helpful, is to tell us why the PO replaced the engine.  Was the old one just worn out; was he having running issues; etc.?
Was just the engine itself replaced?  Or were there some sensors and/or wiring that was replaced at the same time?
Was it just the engine block assembly that was replaced, or was it the block, head, intake?
What I am getting at, is was all the old wiring and all the original sensors reused and what problems was the old engine having?  That could help narrow down where to look....maybe it is just that a wiring connector isn't plugged in good somewhere.
Since the "new" engine ran for awhile (and assuming the old engine didn't have the same issue with running for 20 minutes then dying), then I would say that it is something related to the new engine install.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 07:10:58 PM by Skyhiranger »
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Offline grizz

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 02:46:20 PM »
Skyhiranger,  I think you are dead correct.  OK, This is the history.   PO driving the freeway and throws a rod, takes it to a shop and sells it to the shop because of the quote to repair it.  The shop owner orders an enging Jap Exchange from Calif. and installs it with new motor mounts, water pump etc,etc. SAYS that he got it running and drove it around the block but it didn't shift right and he replaced the shift modulator in it.  Drove it around the block again and pulled it in the shop to let it run and it died.  His mechanic traded the dist and it didn't fix it.  He says he ran the codes and was positive its the ECU but got tired of throwing money at it and parked it. Lost the key to it and it sat there till I was dumb enough to buy it.  I bought a untested ECU on Ebay that is an exact match but it made no difference.  I know there is a chance it too is a bad one , but as you said,  very few problems associated with these ECUs.
I am concerned to take it to an hourly shop and have things thrown at it because it could easily get out of control.  The battery has been disconnected so I don't think it would show codes.  I sat in it and listened as the key was turned on , and I could hear relays click but the engine service lightdoes come on but varies in intensity.  Seems like it should just be on solid.
The ECU # is:   33920-72EB 0 and then 72 EB 3T
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Offline grizz

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2012, 03:33:23 PM »
Just plugged in a Scanguage II and it comes up with : "No codes Read"
The service engine soon light is on solid... not flickering.
When I crank it over a dozen times then let go of the key, it almost sounds like I get a backfire ?  but I still don't see a spark. ???
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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2012, 03:38:43 PM »
If the sidekick sport is a 98, then that is the wrong ECM for it (from what I have read).  I am not familiar enough with the sport ECMs to know what the difference is between the 96-97 ECMs and the 98s and how running a 96-97 ECM in a 98 affects things.  But from what I have read, the 98s used a different ECM than the earlier ones.  So I don't know if an earlier ECM will even run a 98 (apparently not, from your experience).  I would almost bet that both ECMs you have are good, and since they are not the correct ECM for a 98, that is where the problem lies.
The PO is full of crap.  #1....4 speed automatics (which is what a sidekick sport would have), don't have a shift modulator.  So there is no way to replace something that isn't even part of that tranny.  Now maybe he is calling the part by the wrong name, or maybe you are not remembering the correct name.  But if he is right and you are right, he is lying.
Here is my guess on what happened.  The person you bought it off of never had it running (or if they did have it running, they replaced the ECM with one that is not compatible...which is apparent by the part number of the ECM that you say it had in it).  So #1, either the old ECM wasn't bad and the problem is something other than the ECM, or #2, the old ECM was bad and they replaced it with one that isn't compatible, so that is why it won't run now.
Do you have a way to contact the PO, to see if he still has the old ECM around?  I would like to know what the number is on the original ECM.
One other thing to consider....it sounds like the engine was replaced with a JDM (japanese domestic market) engine.  And from what I have read about JDM engines, is that some of the sensors are different and not compatible with USA wiring.  So people have had to swap the sensors from the old engine, to the new JDM engine.  So I would try to find out how much of the engine is JDM and how much is original USA.  If the sensors are still the original US sensors, then that is good....at least you can rule out that it is an incompatible sensor causing the issue.  That's not to say one of the sensors isn't bad though.
Yeah, it is gonna be hard to pull codes, since the battery has been unhooked and the engine can't be started.  There are a few codes that can show up, after the engine has been turned over for several seconds, even if the engine won't start.  The procedure is to turn the engine over for like 30 seconds, then leave the key in the run position and then check for codes.  From what I remember, it is ignition codes that will show up, so that may point you in the direction of where to look.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 07:14:35 PM by Skyhiranger »
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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2012, 03:42:30 PM »
Quote from: grizz on March 20, 2012, 03:33:23 PM
Just plugged in a Scanguage II and it comes up with : "No codes Read"
The service engine soon light is on solid... not flickering.
When I crank it over a dozen times then let go of the key, it almost sounds like I get a backfire ?  but I still don't see a spark. ???

OBD2 CELs (or Service Engine Soon, which is what yours probably says) do not flash.  They just come on solid, to let you know there is a code that needs to be checked.
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Offline grizz

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Re: Need Help, No ignition Spark
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2012, 06:29:11 PM »
The owners manual says its a 1998, the hood decal says its a 1.6 motor, the valve cover says 16 valve. the shifter says L,2,D... no od shown.  Nowhere do I see "sport" mentioned.
Just cranked the motor for at least 30 secs and still no code.
I "think" the ECU is correct for the year, and I know for sure that I'm not going to get any help from the shop I bought it from.
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