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Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai

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Offline rbparker

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Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« on: October 07, 2011, 03:57:05 PM »
Hopefully somebody here can help me out with my MSD box, winter's coming and it'd be a great benefit Im sure.
I dove into search bars and found this link to be most relevant. http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721133

I bought the box at a swap meet for 20 bucks. Its part number is 6200.
I tested it to make sure it worked and it passed a few months ago when I bought it.

The on/off relay switch for the MSD box is spliced into a white red strip wire that sees 12v when key is "on".
Power and ground for the box are hooked up.
The coil and distributor have been hooked up as the directions say and every other possible way.
The tac from the MSD box runs into the brown white stripe wire that the distributor and coil connect to stock. The directions in the link tell to run the tac into a brown wire. I assume he meant brown white striped wire.

When I turn the starter on the tac in the cabin doesn't jump as it would if ignition were stock.

I assume the box's operations receive a signal from the distributor. In the signal contains tac which it splices back into the stock wire harness for the inside gauge to work. The box also knowing where the distributor is then tells the coil when and how many times to fire. If it operates as I assume tac would be the only wire connecting the new ignition system to the old ignition system's wires. Like a super air flow controller SAFC (computer controlled engines) and its buttons in the back to calibrate it to a specific car, I did nothing of the sort with the MSD box.

Are their different distributors that Suzuki came out with? I've got the earliest model year so figure its worth an ask, can't find an answer. The link says that all samurai/tracker distributors are hall-effect magnetic, and my distributor looks just like his.

If any pictures are wanted I can provide.

Thanks, Parker.

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Online fordem

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Re: Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 05:53:14 PM »
This may sound strange but I've read your post twice and I can't figure out what it is you want help with - other than the tach not "jumping" when the ignition is switched on.

If that is the problem you most likely need an MSD tach adapter - I'll find you the part number that is commonly used with the 1.3 Suzukis.

The other thing that puzzles me is why you think the tach wire would be the only connection between the old ignition system and the new one - the tach connection is an output from the ignition/input to the tach - unless I'm making a major mistake you need an input from the distributor to the MSD and an output from the MSD to either the ignitor or the coil.

Edit

The green/violet wires are the inputs from the distributor to the MSD box - the orange/black are outputs from the MSD to the coil.
Also - that white/red wire you're using to switch the MSD sounds a little suspect - I believe it should be black with a blue stripe

The MSD 8910 is the adapter used to get the MSD boxes to trigger with the Suzuki distributors - see the PDF below

http://www.msdignition.com/instructions/Products/Accessories/8910_EIS.pdf

« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 06:15:09 PM by fordem »
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline rbparker

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Re: Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 07:56:21 PM »
Well obviously the car has no spark once its hooked up. I made the post with the attitude of "this is what I did, does anyone see a hole?" I've followed direction numerous times before I made the post, so I feel ...confident with how to hook it up with a wire diagram, but I'm totally in the dark when it would come to in depth troubleshooting.

I'm sorry I meant to say ignition system wire harness. The way distributor is connected to the MSD box no longer connects the distributor to the stock harness. Same way with the coil. The coil and distributor are connected solo to the MSD box.
And yes your correct with MSD color coordination. Directions have me believing that for the coil black - orange +; the distributor green goes to black white striped and violet goes to brown white striped. This is from the plug going into the distributor, leaving the stock harness plug unplugged. Regardless if my directions were wrong I've swapped each wire keeping to its common home, coil/distributor, to no avail.

This is when tac comes to issue. The link "-if you have a factory tach and a weber...you run the tach signal wire from the MSD to the BROWN wire...." So that is the tach connecting back into the stock harness. Like I said I assumed he ment brown white striped wire, which is the distributor/coil wire, both are the same wire upstream. Their are 2 other brown wires, but which, if? Exactly where does the tach go?

I'm going to move the MSD signal wire. A suspect has come to light with all this typing and reviewing. I'll look for your suspected wire in next.

I hate to keep referring to "the link" like its the bible of my problem but its the best. He/she says that the tach and the MSD box should be "square" enough. I could find the quote but its there. Could you link or explain to me otherwise? -edit- to why I need the tach adapter. I have only replied and done no reading on the adapter. ill get on it after I fail trying to reconnect the msd signal wire. -edit-

Thanks for the reply, Parker.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 08:03:45 PM by rbparker »

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Offline rbparker

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Re: Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 08:42:23 PM »
I have no black with blue. I did try the black with white, but nothing.
Also ripped the stock wire harness open a little more following the 2 brown wires, they become the same wire. I hooked the tach up to a brown wire and still nothing. Then switched up the green and violet wires going to the distributor and... nothing. Now ill look at the adapter. I wonder if the MSD box even needs to send out tach? If I remember correctly MSD's website said it didn't.

Parker.

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Online fordem

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Re: Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 07:38:38 AM »
I work tech support for a living - the first step in troubleshooting is to identify the problem - and your first post doesn't make it clear that you have no spark.

For test purposes connect that "switch wire" direct to the battery - OR - at the very least make sure it's from a source that has +12V whilst cranking, there are leads coming off the ignition switch that have +12V key on, but not whilst cranking.

An 86 Samurai should have what is effectively a "stand alone" breakerless ignition system with the ignition amplifier built into the distributor - in this case the tach adapter is being used to take the output from the Suzuki ignition amplifier and feed into the pickup of the MSD, which would normally take a signal from a magnetic pickup.

Go to www.teamswift.net and use the search engine there to search for MSD install - there are about six pages of hits, but somewehre in there, you'll find what you need to get this sorted.  The Swift engines are the same, one version of the Swift uses a similar carburettor to the Samurai and quite a few of them use silmilar ignition systems.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Online fordem

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Re: Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2011, 08:53:00 AM »
For test purposes connect that "switch wire" direct to the battery - OR - at the very least make sure it's from a source that has +12V whilst cranking, there are leads coming off the ignition switch that have +12V key on, but not whilst cranking.

I'm not certain that white with red stripe wire is the best one for this purpose - looking at the schematic diagram it seems to run from the alternator to the instrument cluster probably a charge light connection - a better one would be the black with white stripe that originally went to the coil positive - that's the ignition feed and connects back to that black with blue wire that I mentioned earlier.

The black with blue comes off of the ignition switch and runs to a fuse panel to power the ignition fed circuits - it goes to a fuse and then to the black with white.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline rbparker

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Re: Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2011, 07:10:54 PM »
fordem.
Your completely right I did not mention my problem, and assumed everyone knew I had one, I made an ass of myself.
I've connected the msd switch to the black wire with a white stripe like you had mentioned. Nothing.
For the grain of dust that its worth I have noticed that even with the msd signal wire unplugged (msd off) and the tach still spliced into the suzuki harness; the tach does not work.

I've been busy with dogs running away, shoveling snow, and family visiting. I've done no research to help myself out yet but I will follow your advice...
I almost bought a Suzuki swift gt prepped for auto-x. Sweet little things.

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Online fordem

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Re: Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2011, 08:58:14 PM »
The tach counts pulses from the ignition, no ignition pulses means no tach.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline rbparker

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Re: Installing an MSD box in a 1986 Samurai
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 10:22:59 AM »
I finally looked at the .pdf and within 5 minutes I ordered the adapter. I really should have peeked at it when I read it, stubbornness gets the best of me yet again.