Ok, every time I look at my IFS there seems to be something wrong with it, and it's really starting to piss me off. This is making me seriously want to start looking into a $500< SAS... most likely from a Samurai. A big part of this is that the cost of getting a steel front diff housing and 3rd member is going to be fairly expensive in it's own, plus there's still going to be CV issues.

Now, how does a difference in width between the front and back axles affect on-and off-road performance? The Sammy front axle is about 5-6" narrower, correct? If I were to use ~1.5" spacers (or 1.5" less backspaced wheels), would there be a problem with the front being then 2-3" narrower? Samurais are 5 on 4.5", correct? The Spidertrax 5 on 4.5" to 5 on 5.5" wheelspacer/adapter will  work for this application to give me more width and let me maintain my current bolt pattern, correct?

Also, what coils would be good for this application? I have the Calmini 3" lift, and would probably leave the back alone, so I want the front to ride at about the current height... anyone have any info on this? Would any of the coils here work for this application?

What kind of parts are out there for increasing the strength of the Samurai axle? I remember hearing something about supertough birfield joints... are there also tougher axle shafts? What about my 5.12 Tracker gears... will they fit on the Samurai carrier?

The steering boxes on the Samurai and older Trackers are pretty similar, correct? So the steering components needed for this project could be easily moved from the Sammy to the Track?

Last thing: will Samurai axles with 5.12's hold up to 33's or 35's?


Parts list:
1 used Samurai front axle and steering components -- $?
2 1.5" wheel spacers -- $124.95
2 front springs -- $?
2 front shocks -- $?


Please add any information that you can think of for this kind of swap... I really have no clue where to go, and any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.


EDIT: I was wondering if any of you with coil sprung Samurais (nc_zuk ) could take some detailed pictures of all the links and brackets up front to give me an idea on angles and how everything is positioned. That would be awesome.

Dude the words SAS and cheap shouldnt be used in the same sentence.    

There are a lot of hidden costs and its a lot of work so before you go hacking out all your front suspension components Make sur eyou really want to go through with it.


I know of a few Trackers in Vancouver that run Samurai axels up front.  Like you mentioned, they use Wheel spacers to make up the width difference.  

The only problem with the use of large spacers is that they add extra leverage to the Birfield and bearing packs, so your front end components will wear faster than usual.

What kind of parts are out there for increasing the strength of the Samurai axle? I remember hearing something about supertough birfield joints... are there also tougher axle shafts?

You can get Rings that strengthen the Birf joins so they wont blow on you as easily. You can also get stronger Axels. Calmini makes both of these.

The steering boxes on the Samurai and older Trackers are pretty similar, correct? So the steering components needed for this project could be easily moved from the Sammy to the Track?

You can use your sidekick steering box with the Sammy linkage.  Calmini makes a drop pitman arm specially made for this application.

What about my 5.12 Tracker gears... will they fit on the Samurai carrier?

I know its possible.  I forget if their is an adapter plate to fit the sidekick 3rd on the Sammy housing, or if the plate is just to fit the carrier. I recall hearing that Hawk's carries them.

Last thing: will Samurai axles with 5.12's hold up to 33's or 35's?

That depends on how hard you drive  

I know Mac use to run 35's on his Sammy. With the Birf rings and stronger axels, I think it would hold up pretty good.  Though with 5.12 gearing 35's would be the pits.  

Parts list:
1 used Samurai front axle and steering components:--$?
2 1.5" wheel spacers -- $124.95
2 front springs -- $?
2 front shocks -- $?

1) I was going to do an Sammy SAS swap back in the day, and I picked up my front axel for $100.  I never got around to getting the steering components but I figure they would run you about the same

2) Springs: Since the front spring towers sit lower than the back. I think I'm right to believe that you will need shorter springs than the back.  The current Calmini ones may do the trick if your not going to lift the truck any higher.  

3) Shocks:  You would have to experiment with what length will match your coils.  

As far as mounting goes... if you look at the Calmini SAS they bolted a shock mount onto the strut tower.  (pretty classy) I would probably go that route.  

  If you want to do it cheaply, I would go for wrangler leaf springs or rear sammy springs in the front. Less fabricating needed and less complicated. Stay with 33's or lower even with chromoly anything. Get a hold of some birfeild rings and chromoly axles for the front sammy and kick rear axle. You can use your front diff in the sammy axle, but your alum. housing is weaker than the steel sammy one.
  Look into buying custom 2" spacers for the front or custom tube the front axle and respline your rear axles to fit in the front.
  I wont even get into gearing combos. I am normally a sammy only guy, but I really would love to do this to a kick.

i have this set up in my truck it works very well here are soem specs for ya

well i used a sami axle in the front with 1.5" wheel spacers, with rear sami leaf springs in the front as the axle is too narrow to mount coils correctly due to the width of the sidekick frame i made dropped coil spring mounts in the back. i am currently running 32" tires and a front locker this set up has worked quite well for me in the past couple of years
here are some pictures of my set up
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/553823

Hey Chopper, nice ride. Looks a lot like mine! You have the same hard top as me (which seems to be rare), the same wheels, and it's red. Of course my tires are smaller and I don't have SAS though. Just thought that was cool you have the same top... And in one of the pics you have the "skinned" rear bumper, like I used to have

 If you want to do it cheaply, I would go for wrangler leaf springs or rear sammy springs in the front. Less fabricating needed and less complicated. Stay with 33's or lower even with chromoly anything. Get a hold of some birfeild rings and chromoly axles for the front sammy and kick rear axle. You can use your front diff in the sammy axle, but your alum. housing is weaker than the steel sammy one.
  Look into buying custom 2" spacers for the front or custom tube the front axle and respline your rear axles to fit in the front.
  I wont even get into gearing combos. I am normally a sammy only guy, but I really would love to do this to a kick.

I typed my post out pretty late last night, and I've had some time to think about some things (I have a boring job ). I think leafs up front is what I would do if I did this, as coils are going to make this project many, many times more expensive and complicated. The only thing that concerns me is the combination of the 3" lift in back (coils) and leafs in front... would this combiniation be alright with either Jeep springs or rear Sammy springs? Flex isn't top priority (although it's nice), since most of the offroading I do is in the mud... not a lot of other stuff... Plus I figure an SAS'd kick with leafs will flex better than my IFS kick does right now with coils (I mean just look at heathers! ).

Also, about the gearing, would the ring and pinion from a kick fit into the Sammy axle? I thought I read somewhere that that works...

Before you actually start to perform the swap to SAS, I'd also look at the option of using a Dana30 or 44 from a Jeep CJ setup or a Scout. I'm not sure of the wms (wheel mount surface) width of those, but they do come in different widths depending on the year and are probably closer to what you'll need. I know the earlier years of the CJs are not as wide as the later years (76-86). I have a 74 CJ6 with a D30 front end with drum brakes. To upgrade to discs, simple as adding the knuckles out of a CJ D30 with discs. To add, there are 5.13's for it as well as lockers galore.
Using a simple leaf suspension would be the easiest and simplest to add the SA upfront.
Have you reviewed Heather's page about such a swap. I think they posted the costs of such a setup also. Do a search on the forum and you may find it. IIRC, sometime near Jeep Safari time (Easter).

The CJ D30/44 also have the same mounting 5 lug and large center hole to clear the hub/lockout and you could use your current wheels.

In response to your question: "Samurais are 5 on 4.5", correct?" Samis came with a 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern



Have you considered a Toyota front axel It may solve your width and strenth issues and parts are easy to find and cheap. I am running 35s on my Sami and once my stock axels explode, I am coverting to the stronger axels.

Also, about the gearing, would the ring and pinion from a kick fit into the Sammy axle? I thought I read somewhere that that works...

you can buy a kit to put you tracker gears out of the front into the front steel sammy. and for the quick SAS i would go with leafs.  soo, what are you doing with your front calmini stuff???  i call first dibs!

stu

Before you actually start to perform the swap to SAS, I'd also look at the option of using a Dana30 or 44 from a Jeep CJ setup or a Scout. I'm not sure of the wms (wheel mount surface) width of those, but they do come in different widths depending on the year and are probably closer to what you'll need. I know the earlier years of the CJs are not as wide as the later years (76-86). I have a 74 CJ6 with a D30 front end with drum brakes. To upgrade to discs, simple as adding the knuckles out of a CJ D30 with discs. To add, there are 5.13's for it as well as lockers galore.
Using a simple leaf suspension would be the easiest and simplest to add the SA upfront.
Have you reviewed Heather's page about such a swap. I think they posted the costs of such a setup also. Do a search on the forum and you may find it. IIRC, sometime near Jeep Safari time (Easter).

The CJ D30/44 also have the same mounting 5 lug and large center hole to clear the hub/lockout and you could use your current wheels.

The biggest reason I wanted to go with a Samurai axle is the fact that after I get the axle, I already have the 5.12's from a parts kick to throw in it... buying gears for a Dana or Toy axle would and a couple hundred dollars in cost.

And yes, I followed Heather and Nate's progress on their SAS kick. The questions about mixing coils and leafs actually comes from that... I remember one of them mentioning something about getting the proper leafs to match the coils or something like that, so they just did leafs all around.

In response to your question: "Samurais are 5 on 4.5", correct?" Samis came with a 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern



Have you considered a Toyota front axel It may solve your width and strenth issues and parts are easy to find and cheap. I am running 35s on my Sami and once my stock axels explode, I am coverting to the stronger axels.

Excellent. Then I don't need to worry about bolt pattern adapters then

I have considered a toy axle, but if I did that, I'd rather just get a donor truck, and nab the entire driveline. Plus the additional cost of getting them geared low, as mentioned in the above post

you can buy a kit to put you tracker gears out of the front into the front steel sammy. and for the quick SAS i would go with leafs.  soo, what are you doing with your front calmini stuff???  i call first dibs!

stu

Well, if I do an SAS, I'll obviously be selling the Calmini components up front

Unfortunately for you, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Even though I'm pretty sure I want to do this, it'll probably be a winter/spring/summer project next year :-/

Well, if I do an SAS, I'll obviously be selling the Calmini components up front

Unfortunately for you, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Even though I'm pretty sure I want to do this, it'll probably be a winter/spring/summer project next year :-/

dude, as long as you arn't going to sell it for what i could buy it new for, i can wait.

stu

dude, as long as you arn't going to sell it for what i could buy it new for, i can wait.

stu

I'll be sure to let you know if I go through with this project

Looked up some parts and am starting to compile a more complete list of parts and prices:

Samurai Axle and steering linkage -- $~150 (est.)
Birfield cups and forged shafts -- $340
Calmini Drop Pitman arm -- $120
Leafs and shocks -- $250 (est.)
Misc. odds and ends -- $100

That already puts the price to almost a grand...



Also, chopper, did you do yours spring over? And you used stock rear leafs, correct?