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Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?

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xkmail

Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« on: May 03, 2009, 09:36:25 PM »
I am having a heck of a time getting the clutch adjusted right.
The little swivel end on the pedal end of the cable is kind of loose.
Now besides that pedal adjustment there are two others:
the fork,
the two bolts in the middle on the cable mount about 4 inches in front of the "fork".

Question 1: Can I tighten the overall cable so the swivel is not so loose?
On the fork, do i leave the fork all the way slack plus 1/8" play?
Or do I take in the play at the fork by tightening the funny nut on the end of the cable until it is 1/8" from actually engaging?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 12:17:52 PM by xkmail »
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Offline ack

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustement?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 06:16:34 PM »
Here is the "official" clutch adjustment document created by Sarge 'n me:

http://www.acksfaq.com/samclutchadj.htm

Naturally, it can be found by entering the search string clutch adjust at Ack's FAQ (see signature, below for link).

I hope that this helps!
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Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com
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xkmail

Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustement?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2009, 12:14:37 PM »
Referring to the above drawing, play with the two adjusting nuts on the bracket until the pedal travel is correct.

That's about the stupidest help guide reference I have ever read.no offense to you or the guy who wrote it, but he could have at least said moving the nuts and cable one way or the other produces a certain effect.
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Offline ack

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustement?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2009, 01:00:47 PM »
Quote from: xkmail on May 11, 2009, 12:14:37 PM
Referring to the above drawing, play with the two adjusting nuts on the bracket until the pedal travel is correct.

That's about the stupidest help guide reference I have ever read.no offense to you or the guy who wrote it, but he could have at least said moving the nuts and cable one way or the other produces a certain effect.

Here is the deal:

If you can create a better document, feel free to do so.

That document - if and when you create and publish it - will most likely help someone else in future.  That is what ALL the Zuk forums are about - people helping people get the most out of their trucks.

Until that time, comments like the one above - no matter what your intent (offensive or otherwise) - are very counterproductive relating to concerned folks (like me) desiring to help YOU.

Talk is cheap.  Action is not. Take what you have learned from adjusting your clutch and make a better document than mine.  You won't be hearing me say anything bad about your efforts - whatever the results!

Do not respond to this post - you will only add negative Karma to your current unfortunate image.  If you have something to say directly to me, feel free to PM me.  Don't start a flame-war - you'll only end up posting to yourself.
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Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com
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xkmail

Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2009, 01:14:54 PM »
I have been playing with the two nuts all morning to no avail.(no pun intended).
I only find tightening the nut on the very end at the transmission shaft raises or lowers my clutch release point on the pedal.
However I know the throwout bearing should not be resting on the pressure plate so you have to have a little play there.
The track clutches are funny because you have a cable inside a sheath.
Just because one tightens the sheath doesn't mean he tightens the cable.
That's why I find the above mentioned diagram, although technically correct, diagnostically weak.
Pretty soon I will have one of those "Oh, I see now!" religious like moments.
Yes my path is laid out for me to walk, but I left my shoes at home and continue to stub my toes....
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Offline essjay

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2009, 06:28:02 PM »
I honestly see both sides here, I mean no disrespect to the guys who took the time to post that up.  But I also see his pov.

I think the problem is that we are trying to figure out "how to adjust a clutch" not "what nuts and bolts do I manipulate to adjust my clutch"

I just am lost, my car before had a hydraulic clutch, I have no idea what I am supposed to do to get this thing adjusted right.  I messed with it, and I think now Ive got it adjusted TOO tight at the tranny.

 Unfortunately, I think for the few people who have NO idea about cable clutches, that diagram only gives us enough to feel confident to try, then screw something up.

Once again, I really mean no offense, and I DO appreciate all the work you put into this, no one told you to do it, but we all appreciate it.

I just wish it maybe went a bit more in depth.

My problem is, I messed with them, and now the clutch rattle just about went away, but I think its still grabbing abit all the time.

Does it matter which I adjust first, also there is ALWAYS tension in my pedal, so what does it mean .6 to an inch of travel before you feel tension, if there was no tension, would the pedal not just fall forward to where the tension was?

Sorry if Im being a pain, but I guess Im not getting the mechanics of it.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 06:31:09 PM by essjay »
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Offline captchee

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2009, 07:42:30 PM »
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 08:23:31 PM by captchee »
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Offline essjay

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2009, 08:29:47 PM »
Well I really mean no disrespect to ack, I just wanted to know more about it, and I figured since hes got THE mother of all FAQ's, I thought maybe I could get a better explanation of what the crap im trying to do, I could just post a new topic, but I figured Im not the only one who might be a bit taken by this, so I wanted to let him know, so if he wanted, he could maybe add something to the FAQ, instead of me asking a question, eventually getting it answered, then no one else learning from it.

I definitely would not call that diagram stupid, if you know what your doing, that diagram makes sense, but I dont get it, I think of bicycle  brake lines, and they are adjusted by a lever at the ends that tightens the internal cable, I cant see what the hell that middle adjustment could do, and how I can tell when its adjusted correctly.

Ive done just about every basic and medium difficulty thing to cars, never worked on trucks, and never done anything more advanced than head replacement.  I might just ride on it as is, with the damn rattle, until I can afford to get the clutch replaced, I have the clutch, so at least it should be cheaper.
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Offline captchee

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2009, 08:50:40 PM »
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 08:56:58 PM by captchee »
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Offline essjay

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2009, 09:11:32 PM »
Well, the problem I was having, when you push the clutch in to start it, after its been in gear, the clutch seems to stick abit, it also trys to pull alittle in neutral when clutch is engaged.  I feel the bump in the petal(when the clutch disengages) about halfway through the pedal travel, and I was getting a bad rattle from the clutch when your foot is off.  So i figured I would tighten it abit, and the adjustment on the side of the engine(samurai) just plain makes no sense to me, I know now how to adjust it, but still dont get what it could do, looks like its attached to the outer casing of the cable, so moving it would just move the cable??

another thing that confused me is, after researching I keep seeing that "it should be adjusted to 1mm" problem is, thats all I can find, thats pretty vauge for someone whos never adjusted a clutch.. what should be 1mm?  Once again, I dont mean anything bad to anyone, im glad there are people here who are willing to put the time into helping other peoples problems.

so after tightening the nut at the lever, now the rattle got quieter, but I dont think the clutch is fully engaging. (on the same hill in 4lo after adjustment I couldnt make it up and the engine revved higher than the wheels were spinning.)  SO i need to back that back off, but is there a better way of knowing where to set it, than just seeing if the clutch slips?
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Offline captchee

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2009, 09:13:23 PM »
as another note here .
 as a clutch ages  not only does the pad  get thin. but the throwout bearing  becomes worn .
 back in the olden days LOL  i cant believe i said that LOL .
 but back in the olden days . manufactures actual made a  inspection and maintenance port in the side of the bell housings . that way one could get in and regularly grease the throwout as part of the regular maintenance .
 Now days its best to change that throwout  when ever you change the clutch .
 and always change the  pressure plate as well .
 thats another thing  that we  use to not have to worry all that much about . but not today
change it all , dont skimp

IMO there are few things that are more annoying  then a worn an rattling throwout  bearing.
 What im getting at  is it  may not be that your clutch is out of adjustment as much as the bearing may be  just tiered .
 If it is , no adjustment is going to get rid of the noise   that throwout is making . It might quite down alittle if you ride the clutch. However all that will do is  cause the throwout to spin  . Placing more wear on the bearing  as well as slip your clutch plate , scorch your flywheel  and pressure plate . Not to mention  eat up the  flex arms of the pressure plate itself .

 changing out a clutch isnt all that hard  or difficult .  a good full day with hand wrenchs  and floor jack  or  1/2 a day with air tools and  trany jacks
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 05:25:58 AM by captchee »
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Offline captchee

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2009, 09:20:00 PM »
sorry , you posted  while i was making my last post .
 frankly what it sounds to me like whats happening is
1) your flex plate is getting worn  and the  throwout my actualy be  weariing into the flex arms . that creats a  felt and sometimes heard pop as the  throwout pulls away from the plate
2) your throw out is  worn  and its rattling .

  if it is as i suspect .tightening it up is only going to be a short term fix  before complete failure
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Offline essjay

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2009, 09:39:10 PM »
Yeah thats what I figured, I got an exedy clutch kit for 70 bucks, I definitely see no point in not changing everything, its not like you can just reach up and change it later.  Ive read the suzuki manual on changing the clutch, if i find someone WILLING to help me (find out who your real friends are)  and a place to do it, dad wont let me get fluids on his concrete and everyplace else is gravel, I live in an apartment....  Plus im going to have to take the flywheel out and have it resurfaced arent I?  I been half thinking about just taking it somewhere and having it done, I dont like paying out the poopchute for it, I been putting it off because I still dont have a damn job, I got hired, but then my new boss told me hes sorry but the area manager decided to not hire anyone for that position now instead of getting rid of someone else, its a bad time to only have a HS diploma.  I just heard on the radio the other day, GE in Bloomington(Indiana) is letting 1300 some people go, Eli Lilly here in Indianapolis is letting 5500 people go, and where I used to live, Evansville, one of the biggest employers there, Whirlpool, is closing completely and moving to the land of sombreros and low payed pedros.

I am not sure how long you can drive it like this, my focus had a little rattle for years, but this one is much louder, and then theres the issue with it not wanting to let go of the gears, I wonder if chaging the fluid would fix that... hmmm damnit thats anothing thing I need to do, I want to change all the fluids in the diffs and the tranny, Tcase.  but thats stuff isnt cheap, plus I cant find GL4 anywhere.

Oh well, hopefully everything ends up ok, been a rough year.
Though lots of people have it worse
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Offline captchee

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2009, 05:58:35 AM »
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Offline essjay

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Re: Got the clutch in, now the adjustment?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2009, 09:23:11 AM »
Yeah, I will do it on gravel if I have to,but I will try to find a better place first!!  I will probably take it to my brothers, he has a garage, but he also has like 8 rampant STEP kids kids that walk all over him and WILL NOT listen to him, climb on stuff, theyre the type to jump up and down on the truck while its jacked up, of course I end up yelling at them, then theyre mom gets all pissy.  ::)

anyway......lol  Id say your right about the sticking clutch, and I thought of changing the rear main seal. Anything else you can think of?? I guess I need to man up and just get it done this weekend, I was waiting on "my friend" to want to help, hes got a pickup with a leaking rear main, and I told him we could make a weekend of it, but seems whenever I need his help, he disappears...lol

Hell, my ex GF is willing to help me change it..lol


Have any tips for changing it? sounds like you got some experience
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