Is it worth the $100-130 for a 12 or 16 ton pipe bender??

I've never used one...don't have one....and I always seem to have exhaust issues....I want to make my own exhaust system....

I have always wanted to make other stuff too....roll cage....tube bumpers....rocker guards.....


What gauge steel can a hydraulic 16 ton pipe bender...bend?


The one I looked at, had adjustable rollers, and several different size "dies" for making all kinds of angles and bends.   

Another important question....Will it be a mandrel bend?  Or will I have those ugly wrinkles in all my pipes?



Thanks for your help!

-Mooch

If your going to be doing tube, you want a tubing bender.  Especially if your going to be using it for a cage.  More expensive, but fun if you really start working on tubing.  Just make sure you have plenty of extra for all the mis-bends. 

The pipe bender that your looking at is also called "THE KINKER"

   Kevin

If you want to do cages and bumpers a good bender for the buck is the JD squared one http://www.jd2.com/

You really want a tube bender not a pipe bender. I have used the small tube benders with the hydraulic bottle jack and while it does the trick it can be difficult to do accurate bends. Now I have the JD Squared Model 3 and it is excellent, accurate, and great exercise! You can also upgrade with a hydraulic pump for effort free bending.

Ahh...yes.  I am familiar with that ratcheting style one that is mounted on the tall pedestal.   I've used it to make bumpers for a dirt track race car while I was shadowing a local mechanic....trying to learn some trade secrets.      


While you're input was awesome...thank you....you haven't answered all my questions.

I know that JD squared tube bender exists....and I now know the bench top pipe bender is nicknamed  "the kinker"...

But I still don't know what kind of bend the kinker makes...and what thickness of pipe/tubing it can bend.  Can I use it to make a rocker guard?  Tube bumpers?

The pipe bender is considerably cheaper than the JD model 2 and 3 tube bender....and it's not going to see a lot of action...

The pipe bender will do the bends but it will kink the steel making the bend significantly weaker and going to thicker tubing will not help. I wouldn't use it for sliders or bumpers and as for a cage you gotta think that it's your head it's protecting. Is your head worth $800 to you?

I have "the kinker" and if you weld nuts to the ends of your tube and thread some large bolts into the dry sand filled tube and tighten the bolts really really tight you can make modest almost kink free bends.

some things I noticed is the rollers while looking like a good idea really arnt and leave dimples in the tube and I was thinking of making a half pipe adapter in place of the rollers to guide the (greased) tube and allow more even pressure to keep from dimpling.

The sand acts as a mandrel(sort of in a crude way) - a mandrel is supported inside of a tube and helps support/bend the tube while being bent.

the other is the dies are very very crude and are just barely able to do the job of supporting the tube side walls while bending.

Accuracy is not even in the picture.

Save the headache and get a decent tube bender, thats what I plan to do now after having tried the el-cheapo way.

I have "the kinker" and if you weld nuts to the ends of your tube and thread some large bolts into the dry sand filled tube and tighten the bolts really really tight you can make modest almost kink free bends.

some things I noticed is the rollers while looking like a good idea really arnt and leave dimples in the tube and I was thinking of making a half pipe adapter in place of the rollers to guide the (greased) tube and allow more even pressure to keep from dimpling.

The sand acts as a mandrel(sort of in a crude way) - a mandrel is supported inside of a tube and helps support/bend the tube while being bent.

the other is the dies are very very crude and are just barely able to do the job of supporting the tube side walls while bending.

Accuracy is not even in the picture.

Save the headache and get a decent tube bender, thats what I plan to do now after having tried the el-cheapo way.

Thanks for the input.   Guess I'll wait it out and get a tube bender.   Thanks!

I have a pro tools bender an I think it works better than the JD2 model. Just my$.02

    Kevin

A great site for any type fab:      http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/   goto "shop & tool talk" then look up benders & bending. Best prices too!

The pipe bender will do the bends but it will kink the steel making the bend significantly weaker and going to thicker tubing will not help.

Please explain to me how thicker does not = stronger. Sch 80 is 2x stronger than sch 40 precisely because it's thicker.

I wouldn't use it for sliders or bumpers and as for a cage you gotta think that it's your head it's protecting. Is your head worth $800 to you?

Ah, my favorite "is your xxxx worth xxx" scare tactic. No facts, examples or supporting evidence of any kind. 


ENGINEERING is by far the most critical part of cage fab. Pipe is heavier, and slightly weaker. And, I mean slightly. A properly engineered cage doesn't rely on bent areas for structural strength - it relys on triangulation (so, any weakening by bends is irrelevant). Sch 40 has a yield strength of about 40,000 lbs of pressure, and Sch 80 is twice as strong! Tube is lighter by about .2 lbs a foot.

This topic gets brought up time and time again. The pipe guys ask, "Does anyone have pictures of a pipe cage that failed?", and no one ever does. Yet, the tube guys insist on regurgitating their silly little sayings, "Pipe is for sprinklers" "pipe is for poop" etc. Pipe is still very strong (even after going through a POS HF kinker) and is much Much MUCH better than not having anything at all, yet only marginally inferior to tube. I always find it funny no one chimes in and says, "Hey, you shouldn't be wheeling without a cage" but heaven forbid someone use pipe... then people come out of the woodwork...

Here's a video of a 4-runner (read: WAY heavier than you'll ever be in a zook) in a roll with pipe (note the cage is minimal, but engineered well):
A study on tube vs sch 40 basically shows there's not as much difference between the two as people like to make out:
More for your reading pleasure...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342992&highlight=pipe+exo
http://www.harryritchies.com/ct/ChassFlopVideo.wmv
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,19909.15.html
http://www.zookpower.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4593
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321896


Bottom line: Tube is stronger & lighter, and if you can afford it is the way to go. But, pipe has been trail proven, used as structural support before with great success and will be vastly superior to wheeling without a cage at all. In all my years of lurking on 4x4 forums I have NEVER seen evidence someone getting injured because they used pipe instead of tube.

Quote from: Freak on December 05, 2008, 02:05:20 PM

The pipe bender will do the bends but it will kink the steel making the bend significantly weaker and going to thicker tubing will not help.

Please explain to me how thicker does not = stronger. Sch 80 is 2x stronger than sch 40 precisely because it's thicker.

Because the bend has a kink in it.  Once it is bent you are creating a weak point where it is likely to bend/brake even further.  If you are very careful with a pipe bender you can make smooth bends, but it is usually better to use a tubing bender and create smooth corners.

The main difference between Pipe and Tubing is the Tensile strength.  DOM is around 70,000 and 4130 is around 90,000.   Sched 40 is listed around 50,000 depending on the site (aka, that's what Google came up with).

I've read that Pipe becomes more brittle then DOM after welding, but I don't know enough about metallurgy to give an opinion on that.

Once it is bent you are creating a weak point where it is likely to bend/brake even further.  If you are very careful with a pipe bender you can make smooth bends, but it is usually better to use a tubing bender and create smooth corners.

The structure is in the triangulation, the bends don't matter. A cheap harbor freight pipe bender is going to kink pipe when you do 90* bends, there's no way around it. But, it doesn't matter because the bends aren't structural. The bends exist to follow contours & to shape the cage & have minimal function in structural strength in a rollover event.

The main difference between Pipe and Tubing is the Tensile strength.  DOM is around 70,000 and 4130 is around 90,000.   Sched 40 is listed around 50,000 depending on the site (aka, that's what Google came up with).

And Sch 80 is 80,000 lbs - which is stronger than DOM or 4130 tube. So, use 2 sch 40 pipes, or one sch 80 in the area over your head (B-piller I think it's called) if you're worried about it. I'm not, as I've seen 4-runners, blazers and full sized bronkos with sch 40 pipe roll / flop and they're fine. Since I'm a good 2000 lbs lighter, I'm not in the least bit worried about it.

I've read that Pipe becomes more brittle then DOM after welding, but I don't know enough about metallurgy to give an opinion on that.

x2
But, again - since I've seen them hold up, I'm not worried about it in the slightest. 40,000 psi is a LOT of force. Far more than I'll ever put on it, so there's plenty of wriggle room to weaken things a bit with welds.

For the record, I may be an advocate of pipe if that's what someone can afford, but I'm not trying to tell people pipe is superior to tube. Tube is lighter, and will keep a lower center of gravity. But, being just plain out of budget for most people makes it useless to them (and me for that matter). So if pipe is IN budget, I hate to see people scared away from it when it will work very well, and is far more likely to keep someone alive / injury free than a stock Samurai roll bar, or in the case of kicks - no bar at all!

Also I think speed comes into play If your just krawling around I'm sure pipe will be fine but start racing and ?
found this one line
Pipe vs Tube



     What's the difference between a pipe and a tube?


     More often than not, people guess it has something to do with the quality of the materials, but that's got nothing to do with it.  The difference between a pipe and a tube is how they are measured, and ultimately what they are used for. 


     A pipe is a vessel - a tube is structural.


     A pipe is measured ID - a tube is measured OD.


     How they are measured...  Pipes are measured ID or inside diameter because they are vessels.  Tubes are measured OD or outside diameter because they are structural. 


     Pipes have a consistent ID regardless of wall thickness.  In other words, a 1/2" high pressure pipe may need a 2" thick wall, but the ID will still only be 1/2" even tho the OD is 4.5". 


     Generally speaking, a tube will have a consistent OD and it's ID will change.  Engineers see tubes and pipes with different eyes. 
     A tube is structural.
     By having a consistent OD they can vary wall thickness, changing the ID, to increase strength.  Because they are consistent OD, they have predictable characteristics. 


     Again, the difference is simple, it's how they are measured and what their intended uses are.



So, what's the difference between a bolt and a screw?

I appreciate all the R&D that's gone into this topic...I really do.   


But.   Tube = out of the question for me.   AND  an expensive floor mounted "wrinkle-less" tube bender = out of the question.

I'm going to buy the Harbor Freight hydraulic pipe bender because it's cheap.   Why do you think I wheel a geo tracker....because I want to?  lolz.

If I could afford shop equipment and tools...and had a garage like some/most of you do....I wouldn't be wheeling in a $900 Geo.       


There's plenty of linky links here for me to look at now...so../locked.