I am looking at buying a 1986 Samurai and the owner tells me the rear differential has been welded, and it has 513 gears.  Can someone explain this to me in lay person terms so I can understand what this means....?  Also the asking price is $3,000 - does this sound good? New Swamper LTB 31 inch tires; new paint; new soft top; 1.6 l sidekick engine swapped in 60,000 miles ago; carburetor (not fuel injection); and toyota bucket seats... Thoughts?

My thoughts are that he is eating alot of his investment.     The welded rear end means there is no longer a differential.  This is the ultra cheap way of going instead of a spool.  Both of the rears are locked together.  You will have to make turns wider to be easier on the rear axles.  And you run the risk of the weld braking.  For some they last forever.  If it were me I would at least replace with a spool or locker.  The gears are a higher ratio that means you will be able to crawl slower and have more power and better performance especially mated to the 1.6.  Sounds nice but don't forget the all important inspection.  Take your time and a flashlight and check out the frame everywhere, exhaust condition, ect.  If the body is in good condition he is in the ball park ( at least here in the midwest) but you can always do some compares on ebay to see what they are going for.   

one would wonder why someone would go through the trouble of a 1.6 swap and not switch to throttle body or efi, i love my welded diffs front and rear never broke works just fine, im amazed at the increase in value for a sami in the last year or two, i bought mine stock for 400 bucks and drove it home, i bought my wife areal clean one a year later for 800, but lately i cant find my dad one broke down even for less than 1500 its worse here in southern utah stock samis are going for 3000 bucks

one would wonder why someone would go through the trouble of a 1.6 swap and not switch to throttle body or efi

'cause it's more expensive (need to have the speedo re-worked for the fuel injection compy), and a hassle to wire for some. And, maybe he was too cheap to buy the head / fuel injection / speedo / ECU. I agree that 1/2 of the benefit of the 1.6L is the fuel injection - it's going to rob you of a lot of power & reliability not having the FI. Sometimes people doing upgrades on a budget will cut corners. Take a long & careful look under there. If you're not sure what you're looking for, find a mechanic that does. The $100 on an inspection will be WELL worth it.

The swampers alone are $1500 - $2000 installed (if he's got them on properly backspaced wheels w/ same size spare). If he did the swaps cleanly, it sounds like a good deal to me. If he cut corners, and didn't do all the "little things"... I'd look elsewhere. You'll likely be chasing problems from a poor install.

Swampers can be hard for these motors to turn. Drive it around - uphill, and on freeways & short on-ramps. Are you happy with the power? Do you plan on driving this over rocks, or anywhere you'd be airing down the tires (where swampers REALLY shine)? Then you'll either need to be like Hulk Hogan, or get power steering (an expensive conversion now).

Look at the paint job CLOSELY - IN THE SUNLIGHT. Do you see wavy wrinkles or 'pot holes'? Is it smooth like glass (good) or does it have a slight orange-peal look (bad - will need re-paint soon)? Is there overspray in the "I'm to lazy to cover this up" areas? If so - where else did they cut corners?

How's the fluids? Do they all look clean & topped off? Is he using coolant, or just water? Is the break fluid clear as watter (good), or tinty color (bad) or dark (REALLY bad)? Is the oil light colored or dark? Do they have records of maintenance? When was the last tuneup (including valve adjustment, timing belt & idler pulley, not just plugs / wires / cap)? Did they take extra care to clean up the truck well (interior is shampooed, glass is crystal clear, no mud / oily gunk / scratches on underbelly)? Is there thick oil on the back of the engine / top of the transmission?

All these "little" things will tell you a lot about how someone cared for the car. Did they keep it clean, and treat it right, fix things only when needed / when they could afford it?

im amazed at the increase in value for a sami in the last year or two, i bought mine stock for 400 bucks and drove it home, i bought my wife areal clean one a year later for 800, but lately i cant find my dad one broke down even for less than 1500 its worse here in southern utah stock samis are going for 3000 bucks

I sold my stocker with a SALVAGE title for $3200 last year. Modded sami's actually go for LESS value here  sometimes Can often find SPOA'd rigs for $3000... hard for them to sell for more than $3000 here, even if they added gears, hardened axles, 1.6L, power steering... etc all... it's strange.

The swampers alone are $1500 - $2000 installed (if he's got them on properly backspaced wheels w/ same size spare).

5 31" LTBs on properly backspaced wheels $1500-$2000?  Where are you buying your wheels and tires?  No way they should cost anywhere near that much.

Thanks all for your input.  I am still wondering a little how the gear ratios work so if someone can explain that to me it would be great.  What is stock in the 86 Samurai?

Took a closer look at it and will get a mechanical inspection done before I decide to purchase it or not... there are some good things and some not-so-good things about it... it hasn't had a power steering upgrade, does anyone have a suggestion for me there?

The number of turns the input (drive shaft) must go round for the output (wheel) to do one full revolution.  When you put on taller (longer diameter) tires it's good to have the gear ratio (ring and pinion) changed, helps keep your speedometer closer to actual and 5th gear stays usable on the highway.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm
Nice site for use newbie apprentice garage mechanics
They also have a explaination of lockers.

Where are you buying your wheels and tires?

California  :'(

Cheapest I found...
LTB $130 x 5 = $650
Backspaced wheels $60 x 5 = $300
Mounting, core stems & balancing $35 x 5 = $175
Recycling fee $10 x 5 = $50
+ Tax
Total = $1260

That's not including insurance, and again - is at the cheapest place I could find. Most places quoted $1500 to $2000 out the door.

Quote from: Skyhiranger on June 09, 2008, 08:47:49 PM

Where are you buying your wheels and tires?

California  :'(

Cheapest I found...
LTB $130 x 5 = $650
Backspaced wheels $60 x 5 = $300
Mounting, core stems & balancing $35 x 5 = $175
Recycling fee $10 x 5 = $50
+ Tax
Total = $1260

That's not including insurance, and again - is at the cheapest place I could find. Most places quoted $1500 to $2000 out the door.

Hmmm.  Have you tried ordering through mail order from like four wheel parts wholesalers or national tire and wheel or somewhere similar?  They should be cheaper than that, even after shipping.  It's been quite awhile ago, but I could mail order cheaper than getting them through anyone locally.

Hmmm.  Have you tried ordering through mail order from like four wheel parts wholesalers or national tire and wheel or somewhere similiar?  They should be cheaper than that, even after shipping.  It's been quite awhile ago, but I could mail order cheaper than getting them through anyone locally.

The prices quoted are from 4wheelparts.com

I didn't include shipping 'cause if you order from the store, sometimes they'll wave shipping (though - sometimes they like to sneak it in anyway).

I'm not saying that's the lowest price ever. I'm not saying it can't be beat. I'm just saying that Swampers are expensive, and that the zook he was looking at might be a good deal if you consider the price of the tires alone... presuming they came with new backspaced wheels 

I've seen cheaper places online, but they wouldn't sell teh wheels & tires mounted, and left that up to me. All the local tire shops charged MUCH more for mounting / balancing of tires that weren't purchased at their shops - thus negating the discount at the online retailers I found.

Quote from: Skyhiranger on June 16, 2008, 03:55:51 PM

Hmmm.  Have you tried ordering through mail order from like four wheel parts wholesalers or national tire and wheel or somewhere similar?  They should be cheaper than that, even after shipping.  It's been quite awhile ago, but I could mail order cheaper than getting them through anyone locally.

The prices quoted are from 4wheelparts.com

I didn't include shipping 'cause if you order from the store, sometimes they'll wave shipping (though - sometimes they like to sneak it in anyway).

I'm not saying that's the lowest price ever. I'm not saying it can't be beat. I'm just saying that Swampers are expensive, and that the zook he was looking at might be a good deal if you consider the price of the tires alone... presuming they came with new backspaced wheels  

I've seen cheaper places online, but they wouldn't sell teh wheels & tires mounted, and left that up to me. All the local tire shops charged MUCH more for mounting / balancing of tires that weren't purchased at their shops - thus negating the discount at the online retailers I found.

I know swampers are expensive.....I've had 2 sets (bought one set new with wheels from 4WPW and the other I bought just tires from an individual).  The first set was mounted and balanced when I bought them.  The other set I had walmart dismount my old tires ($3.50 each for 35s), since I was selling the tires and wheels seperately.  Then I got new wheels from a local place and they put the "new" tires on for free and IIRC, balanced them for like $40-$50 for all 4 (not bad for 35s).
Our local walmarts will mount new tires, even if you didn't buy them there (or at least they use to) but they might charge like $5 each to mount instead of the standard $3.50, since they would be considered "specialty and/or oversized" tires.
Not sure on the balancing......since they are just 31s, walmart shouldn't have any problems getting them on their machine.  Pricewise, I think balancing is around $8 or $10 each.  Most places I know of will put any valve stems in that you bring in (new ones).....instead of buying their overpriced ones (which are the same exact stems you can buy from most anywhere for like a $1 each).

I'm really not trying to argue with you.  I understand that some parts of the country are different than others and some places charge higher places than others.  It just seemed like your prices were way too high, but it sounds like they are "reasonable" for where you are.

Quote from: Skyhiranger on June 09, 2008, 08:47:49 PM

Where are you buying your wheels and tires?

California  :'(

Cheapest I found...
LTB $130 x 5 = $650
Backspaced wheels $60 x 5 = $300
Mounting, core stems & balancing $35 x 5 = $175
Recycling fee $10 x 5 = $50
+ Tax
Total = $1260

That's not including insurance, and again - is at the cheapest place I could find. Most places quoted $1500 to $2000 out the door.

Dude thats a rip off. I just purchased (4) 34x10.50 ltbs on custom back spaced wheels mounted and balanced, tire hazard warranty and delivered to my door in Oregon for 834.83
Free S+H and lug nuts with center caps. The local store wanted me to pay s+h and charge me more for everything. Call the 4wpws toll free next time, way better deal.

Don't forget to hit Craigslist.org and swap meets.  My Dad picked up a set of new 30" Mud Terrains and Aluminum Wheels from a CJ for 225.

That can't be a right quote.  I got 4 swamper TSl's 31x10.5x15 mounted and balanced on 4 new 15x8 crawler rims delivered to my door for $815 (includes shipping) from 4wheelparts.  Came on a truck on a pallet right to my house.  I am pretty sure they had a flat rate of $80 for shipping tires at the time and that was in Dec of 07. 

(guy asked how I wanted to get them off and I said roll them!  If they cant take that drop then they got no business on my zuk)