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Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .

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Offline ZeusZuki

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Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« on: March 21, 2008, 02:25:37 PM »
Before anyone comments , yes this is not a new idea and has been done before in various forms but newbies might not know of it so here goes:

1) Get yourself a complete Sammie 3rd.
2) Cut the bottom bearing oil drain cavity back from the flange end 105mm and cap the holes left. This is done to clear the Kick cross member.
3) Fab up some brackets. Mount the nugget in the banjo and bolt it in to your rig. Now tack the brackets in, then remove once aligned and weld them up.( Check out the pics for brackets ).
4) Swap all the Kick 3rd parts over ( a good time to fit a front locker now you have the steel nugget  ;) ). You can either buy the assembly with locker installed from Trail Tough ( my recommendation ) OR get the spacer and pin retaining kit and do the same as the Sammie boys when they fit 5.13 R&P's

NB: There is obviously some technical things I have not covered regarding the R&P swap etc but if you are not up to that task then think seriously about doing this modification yourself  :-\

Usefull info :
You can use all your original Kick bearings if they are in good condition.
Check backlash BEFORE you disassemble your Kick diff and then set up new assembly with THE SAME amount of backlash. Ring gear torque - 70 ftlbs . Cap torque - 70 ftlbs . To set up pinion bearing preload make sure bearings are oiled up and use a new crush sleeve, now tighten flange nut little by little until there is a small amount of resistance when you turn the flange from left to right Eg: Spin the flange to the left a few times and then on the final turn try to spin it back to the right - if the preload is comes right then there will suddenly be a small amount of resistance on the switch turn , when this happens preload is correct ( tap the nut into the pinion groove to secure ).
Hope you can understand my ramblings and happy wheeling  ;).
 
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1600 Escudo / Kick, beam front, coils all round, 37 MTR's, 97" wheelbase, locked fr & rr,twin stick, front stock ratio, Calmini 5.14 t box rear, Warn XD9000i winch, blah blah!

2.0 V6 auto, Calmini 3" kit, 33" jandles, LT struts, blah blah

2.5 V6 man GV, Calmini 2.5" kit, 235/85x16 jandle
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phloop

Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 09:07:28 PM »
My Zuki hasn't broken a front diff yet, should I be worried?  >:D
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Offline j2custom

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 09:15:49 AM »
Nice pics and info.  
Quote
Cut the bottom bearing oil drain cavity back from the flange end 105mm and cap the holes left
Is this the long bottom rib like part?  Do you weld the hole shut?  

Quote
My Zuki hasn't broken a front diff yet, should I be worried?

That all depends on how you wheel.  I blew one up backing out of Mickeys Hot tub (stupid) in Moab this year.  Mine has 33" tires, open front and is a 4 door.  Everyone says that the housing is the weak link and I would have to agree.  
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Offline ZeusZuki

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2008, 01:06:50 PM »
Hi j2 - yeah just make up a couple of small caps that fit inside the holes, "V" the edges and weld them in , that way they will end up flush mounted.
BTW: The reason we have put two brackets on is to stop the rocking effect that seems to be the culprit for cracking the front banjo - this set up is very strong and distributes the stress amongst ALL the mounts increasing reliablity - running this with a steel GV banjo would be the ultimate as far as Kick IFS is concerned.
Happy wheeling  ;D
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1600 Escudo / Kick, beam front, coils all round, 37 MTR's, 97" wheelbase, locked fr & rr,twin stick, front stock ratio, Calmini 5.14 t box rear, Warn XD9000i winch, blah blah!

2.0 V6 auto, Calmini 3" kit, 33" jandles, LT struts, blah blah

2.5 V6 man GV, Calmini 2.5" kit, 235/85x16 jandle
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Offline whitfield

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 04:28:19 PM »






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Offline derekj

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 06:03:04 PM »
I have 2 questions..

1) Front or rear Sammi third?
2) Do you have a picture of the mod to the oil drain area?

This is great info!

Thanks,
Derek
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Offline heiney.5

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 08:08:50 AM »
From what I gather you can use a rear carrier out of a sammy....I've been trying to scavage one for a few weeks now, with not much luck locally.


I am sure Whitfield has a lot more experience in this field.... I have came across many of his threads in my information hunt. For example....from 2004....a lot of trackick/sammy axle info here

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,3975.0.html


I also have been looking at diff braces and I do like the two point mounts, shown in this thread and in one of hagens tech articles, that  I can't find atm.


I have a question though....Will having no bushing like the design Whitfield shows hurt anything? I like that one because of the second bolt location, but leery on no bushings.


BTW...nice writeup ZeusZuki.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 08:13:28 AM by heiney.5 »
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Offline BRD HNTR

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 08:54:24 PM »
Thanks for the good write up.  I was going to do this mod. for my modified samurai rear/tracker ifs, hoping it did not get too involved.  Drone637 foreworded this to me to show what/how it needed to be done.  As this still left some guess work as to cutting, I have included more photos as my work progressed.  I used a 1/16" cut off wheel and a grinding wheel in a 4 1/2" grinder.
Third member before I started


Cut lines I used


Cut section removed


Plugs ready to weld


Welded and cleaned up ready for paint


I am using the tracker rear diff mount, and another diff mount bushing that uses Whitfields idea of using the rear A arm bolt instead of welding it to the cross member.


Diff can now set at least 1" lower without hitting cross member.
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Offline mverley

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 06:05:11 PM »
Quote from: heiney.5 on October 03, 2008, 08:08:50 AM
From what I gather you can use a rear carrier out of a sammy

I know this was posted a couple of months ago, but this info still could be useful:
Front and rear sammy 3rd housings are identical.  The only difference is the side gears for the fronts are smaller than the rears (front axleshafts are smaller than rears).  Since you would be swapping all of the kick innards in anyway the side gears don't matter so either will work.
For sammy guys, you can use a front sammy 3rd with a rear lock-rite (you can buy the lock-rite with new side gears).  I've done this for about a dozen sammy 3rd's, as the fronts always seemed easier for me to find. This is good for those custom front axleshafts from trail tough or Newfields...or for doing the locker/gears on the bench while leaving your rig in a driveable state.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 06:09:48 PM by sewerzuk »
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Offline derekj

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 11:10:43 PM »
So I am going to get a steel housing from a sami for my front diff. I am going to put in a Lockrite as well. Do I use the sami carrier or the kick carrier for the Lockrite?

Derek
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91 Sidekick jx
2" BDS supension lift
2" BDS body lift
1" Coil spacers
32" TSL's and some other stuff I did And now with a Lockrite!  www.cardomain.com/memberpage/783382
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Offline BRD HNTR

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 11:14:23 PM »
Quote from: derekj on January 27, 2009, 11:10:43 PM
So I am going to get a steel housing from a sami for my front diff. I am going to put in a Lockrite as well. Do I use the sami carrier or the kick carrier for the Lockrite?

Derek
If you use a sami carrier you have to have it machined to accept the larger ps CV shaft.  (I believe Hawk sells machined sami carriers also.) 
The tracker/sidekick carriers are single pin and do not work very good with lockers.  You can also get special tracker/sidekick carriers with the lockers installed.
ARB's come set up for the larger ps CV shaft.
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93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.
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Offline derekj

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 11:07:57 PM »
Thanks, I think I will just buy the Trail Tough carrier - seems like the best way to go.

Derek
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91 Sidekick jx
2" BDS supension lift
2" BDS body lift
1" Coil spacers
32" TSL's and some other stuff I did And now with a Lockrite!  www.cardomain.com/memberpage/783382
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Offline kottunmewth

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2009, 01:30:01 AM »
The only question I have about this is,when you start cutting off metal you start weakening the 3rd member housing.If the sammi difs are made of solid steal and not forged then it should be ok.It should be stronger then what we have now.But now your weakest link is the axle housing and cvs.When you do the work and pull the front 3rd and diff before you put it back in you should put in an additional poly bushing in the diff end on the passenger side to help support were the passenger side CV axle  inserts in to the differential.If you haven't had the leaky passenger cv axle oil seal leak yet,you will.The IFS in 99-05 have this problem  with the passenger side.

I was looking on a Australian forum and a guy from down under lifted his 02 GV 2dr 4" and dropped the front axle 1" and he was doing some lite hill climbing and had his front right up,left front down ,left rear up and right down.He was hoping a little bit and snapped off the 3rd and busted the axle housing around
the passenger cv axle end.He had to replace all of it.
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Offline BRD HNTR

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2009, 10:05:15 PM »
Quote from: kottunmewth on March 12, 2009, 01:30:01 AM
When you do the work and pull the front 3rd and diff before you put it back in you should put in an additional poly bushing in the diff end on the passenger side to help support were the passenger side CV axle  inserts in to the differential.If you haven't had the leaky passenger cv axle oil seal leak yet,you will.The IFS in 99-05 have this problem  with the passenger side.

I am trying to understand where you want to put a poly bushing.  There isn't a tube to put anything in on the passenger side.
Although I did consider putting a bearing inside of the seal when I converted a samurai rear to my ifs.


Also I didn't like the welded mount using the stock mount, so I build a frame using the diff housing bolts and fastened this to the stock mounting place.  It is a solid mount, then connected the mount on other side through a mounting bushing to a tab connected to the A arm bolt.
  No movement.
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93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Sick of broken Kick front diffs? Try this .
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2009, 11:48:28 AM »
Quote from: kottunmewth on March 12, 2009, 01:30:01 AM
If the sammi difs are made of solid steal and not forged then it should be ok.

I'm pretty sure that the third is cast steel.
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