Last weekend my dad and I competed in an overnight winter road-rally in my Grand Vitara, up in the Laurentian mountains.  It was an AWESOME rally!!    it was my second road-rally in the GV and first big overnighter.  I've done a few big overnighters before in my old cars.  It had snowed that day so the roads were excellent, with nice big 6 foot high snowbanks in places; rough patches that utilized the bump stops at 50km/h (our stuff in the back was airborne a few times for sure), smooth long straights = 5th gear on snow/ice, and twisty-turny-blind cresty stuff that would rival the Swedish or Finnish WRC events.  Coolest part of the night must've been passing by a blue Subaru WRX STi that had the big rally lights on the front, he made a wrong turn and was just coming back on route when we blew past.  I kept a close eye on my rearviews and for a place to pull over because I knew he'd be pushing hard trying to make up for lost time, but suprizingly the gap between us seemed to steadily WIDEN for the first while, until we got to the twisty blind cresty stuff and he caught up and passed me.  But it was neat that I was able to hold off a big 300hp Subaru for a while.

The 4WD worked flawlessly the entire event and also never skipped a beat before.  In fact I never ever hear the "clunk" everyone talks about.  There's only two instances that I heard it: 1.  When I first got the GV and first good snowfall I went out to an empty parking lot and tried to do some 4WD donuts.  It made a couple clunks so I stopped.  2.  One time or another I engaged 4WD while at a dead stop and then at "launch" (light turned green) it clunked as the axles engaged.  99% of the time I make sure to put it in 4WD while I'm still rolling, or roll forward slightly to allow positive engagement, at which point the 4WD light would flash once and it would be good from then on.

So like I said, no problems with the GV on the road rally.  We placed 3rd in Novice class!!  (Novice because it was only my dad's 3rd rally as a navigator).

So, we drive home, all is well.  Monday comes and I'm back to work, and after work I put the GV up on the hoist to check the suspension and linkages.  All is well.

On wednesday, Ottawa gets hit with a goodsized snowstorm.  Well that doesn't faze me one bit, I have my 4WD,  REAL snow tires (not just bald A/Ts like every other suv owner has), and the aftermarket4x4 front skid.  On the way home from work, some idiot left all his snow from his driveway all over the right hand lane of Riverside Drive.  There was someone beside me so I couldn't change lanes so I had to "blast" right through it.  Foomph!  Bah.  Nothing to it, compared to the rally four nights ago.

Except that four nights ago, my 4WD light wasn't flashing, and now it is.  Now I know what you're thinking:  Hose popped off.  That's what I thought too.  So thursday, after work, I put my GV up in the air, and pulled off the skid plate.

The hoses are all good.  I pulled the hose off the bottom of the differential and hooked the hose up an air pressure gauge, and it goes right up to 7psi and holds solid.  Releases the pressure when taken out of 4WD too.  This tells me that the air pump and all the air lines right up to the diff are holding just fine, no leaks.

I hooked the line back up to the differential.  When placed in 4WD, the airpump in the front seems to cycle once per second.  So, I teed my pressure gauge into the system and it pressurizes up to about 6.5psi and then the needle drops to about 6psi, motor runs, brings it back up to 6.5psi, drops, motor runs, air drops, motor runs etc.  The motor runs about once per second.    So it seems to be leaking down inside the differential.

I was so hoping for it to be the airpump or a hose. 

Did I miss anything in my diagnostics?  Or any other tricks to try?

Something interesting to mention is I still have 4WD while the light is flashing.  Today, it seems the light flashes and I have 4WD for about a minute or so, until the pump seems to "give up", and I have no light and no 4wd - even thought the transfer lever is in 4H.

So, now, what are my options?

Just fix it. Whatever that entails, I called the dealer and a front 3rd member with the air mechanism is about $700ish cost.

Do the SOTF-delete conversion. http://www.zukiworld.com/month_030104/feature_tsb_shiftontheflyremoval.htm  On a whim, while I was at work I phoned a junkyard and priced out a front diff from a samurai.  $150. Nice.  But then I read the SOTF-delete article.  Yeesh.  That seems like an awful lot of work just to get rid of the air-SOTF.  I've no intention of changing my gearing, or running bigger tires or doing a lift, or whatever.  As you can probably guess I'm not that big into off roading (I have yet to actually go out on a mentionable trail), my big thing is road-rallying, which is why I still have stock ride height, stock tire size, and even the swaybar.  Can't I just:

Pull my front diff out as it is now, and "permanently engage it", and get manual hubs.  After sleeping on it and thinking about it during the day, that really seems like the quickest, most cost effective option.   Has anyone out there done this?

My GV is a 1999, with a 5-speed, so it has the steel carrier (confirmed with a magnet today).   While it is apart I can toss a seal into the passenger side of the diff since it is slowly seeping.  There's still lots of gear oil in it, I changed all the driveline fluids  back in late May  and I filled the front diff with the front end jacked up at about a 30deg angle to get 1.25L in.  When I checked the fluid level yesterday it was still above the fill hole (vehicle level).

So, that's all I can think of right now, any other ideas to consider?

Thanks for any input.  It couldn't wait until the fun snow season was over, could it.  I wanted to go play in the big snowstorm this weekend too.

James

I'm in the same boat! (sorry James no answers yet)

'98 V6 5-Speed GV complete with factory clunk.

I want to change to a manual hub setup, but I want to keep my stock ratios as I more of a 'pinned sideways on dirt at speed' rather than a 'idle up a wall' kind of driver.

I've read the conversion article as far as I get it, I need:

1x 96-98 26 spline Vitara (sidekick or whatever you guys call them) diff center.
1x 26 spline right hand side inner shaft.
2x Manual Hubs

The questions I have are;

Can I install the diff center into the stock GV carrier so that I don't have to dick around with the cross member mount, or will the crown and pinion not line up?

Did the 96-98 Vitaras come with the same ratio as a V6 GV at all?

Are the RH side CV/driveshafts the same between the two models,other than the inner driveshaft length?

Cheers

Phil

As I understand it, the air enters into a component called the actuator, which pushes the axle lock clutch on the diff left case into engagement. The actuator looks like a large diameter washer, but constructed a bit like the aneroid "can" you get in a barometer, so that the pressure increases its thickness by 3mm.

If you could come up with a replacement for the actuator which would be thick enough to keep the clutch permanently engaged, or just a 3mm thick "washer", that should work.

Alternatively, perhaps you could just weld the axle lock clutch solid?

So your Front diff is not engauging at all ?

Get someone to go inside the truck and get them to engage the 4wd you should feel the front diff pumpkin move to the right.

Your in ottawa any pics of ur truck? Im in ottawa also. Have a 2001 GV with Long tube headers, exhaust, pulley and lift and alot more.


Josh

Also on another note. Yes you can permantly enguage the Front axle all the time. You would have to get a shim machined to push the diff over all the time. Im going to get something machined this summer as i am tired of the front end probs. All you do is unlock your hubs and ur done lol.

So your Front diff is not engauging at all ?

Get someone to go inside the truck and get them to engage the 4wd you should feel the front diff pumpkin move to the right.

Your in ottawa any pics of ur truck? Im in ottawa also. Have a 2001 GV with Long tube headers, exhaust, pulley and lift and alot more.

Actually, while the light is flashing, I DO have 4WD.  In this weather it's pretty obvious when it's not working.  But it only lasts for about a minute, then the front diff disengages, and the light goes out.  If I quickly shift to 2H then back to 4H, I have 4WD back for another minute.

Yeah I did that, feel the diff casing while someone shifts to 4WD, and I can feel something moving inside. I do have 4WD for about a minute.

If you could come up with a replacement for the actuator which would be thick enough to keep the clutch permanently engaged, or just a 3mm thick "washer", that should work.

Alternatively, perhaps you could just weld the axle lock clutch solid?

Also on another note. Yes you can permantly enguage the Front axle all the time. You would have to get a shim machined to push the diff over all the time. Im going to get something machined this summer as i am tired of the front end probs. All you do is unlock your hubs and ur done lol.

Anyone know of any close-ups of the front diff assembly showing how the air-actuator works?

Some sort of shim seems like the best bet (as long as it won't lunch itself), or maybe welding something inside.   That's the answer I was looking for!  Any cons of doing this?

Now I just need some dimentions, a machine shop (they seem to have gone the way of the Dodo around here), some manual hubs and I'm pretty much all set. 

It's too bad these diffs don't have a normal "inspection cover" that I could pop off and have a peek inside to make sure that everything else with the diff is still ok.    But I guess it's a lot easier to set backlash with the 3rd member out on the workbench.

James

junk setups..  my 4wd light has always flashed since i bought it new, before ever wheeling it and modding it.  last spring, under warranty i had the dealership look at the setup as the light would flash every 8-9 seconds or so, now it flashes every 3-4 seconds or so.  i never had issues with the 4wd not working and could hear the pump cycling, dealer looked for info said they found nothing on this as it 'appeared' normal.  i figured with the faster cycling that i'd be back in the shop sooner than later and this thread pretty much confirms it.   

James,

It sounds Like (and I'm probably telling you what you already know here) that you've got an air leak within the diff housing.

I'm liking this spacer idea, if it works it would be much simpler that changing the whole center, drive shafts, getting the crown/pinion setup again, ect. (I'm about 300 miles from the nearest decent mechanic, the local shop is run by thieves and liars)

From what I've seen in the workshop manual, I dont think welding would work.

P.S: Any action photo's from the rally?, I'm particularly interested in racing GV's.

P.S: Any action photo's from the rally?, I'm particularly interested in racing GV's.

Sorry we were too busy competing to have taken "action" photos.  Besides, this was a road-rally, not an all-out performance rally.  The idea is precision driving and timing, not all-out speed.   Basically in the good sections, you're given an average speed (usually 10% below the posted speed limit) and you must hold that average the best you can.  Sounds easy but on the really twisty stuff it can be a real challenge.  (In fact some performance rally teams come out to these events to build teamwork and get more seat time in their rallycars.  I've heard one of them say that these overnight winter road rallies are just as fun as the performance events, but without the high costs.)  Every stop sign, turn, etc requires you to drive slightly faster to make up the time lost at the stop.  Check out my little avatar gif there.  A more accurate picture would be to take off the helmets, and give the navigator a calculator and pen in addition to the route notes, and have him scratching his head trying to do timing calculations all while bouncing around in the seat on the rough twisty roads.  He basically has to tell me to (usually) speed up, slow down(sometimes), where to turn (that's important too).

There are checkpoints (CPs) hidden along the route that you must cross at the right time, if you don't you collect penalty points.  Less is better.   Most CPs have a one-minute window in which you can cross the line and not collect any points, but some only have a 6-second window.

I'm trying to upload some pics to photobucket, but it's not accepting any uploads today for some strange reason.  It says "uploading" and the progress bar says 0% and it just sits there.  I've tried several times through the day already.  I've got one pic of me with the GV ready to head out on the rally, and a few other pics of some other rally cars in the parking lot before and after an event that I worked at (as a checkpoint crewman) in mid february.

James

Photos are still not uploading to photobucket, but in the meantime I found a couple videos from a fellow competitor, you can come see them over here in the adventure forum.

http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=21023.0

James

If you're removing the third to try to lock it in 4wd, then why not just replace it with a used sidekick one.  I got one from trail tough with the correct ratio - wasn't very expensive.  You can get the cv/axle shaft from them as well.  The install was relatively straight forward, the hardest part was some of the rusty bolts.  The entire cost - including shipping, silicone gasket maker, etc was about $450 if I remember right.  No machining or welding was required - just wrenching.  Took me half a day.

I'm sure you could come up with some way of locking your current one into 4wd, but I needed my car for everyday use and couldn't have it down for more than the one day if possible.  I hadn't seen anyone lock the air diff up so I decided to just spend the money and fix it for good.  If you come up with a design, please post up because I'm sure others will be interested.

See, yes; something like this.  Actually that was my first intention:  just pull that differential out of the case, pull off the R&P, swap them onto a trackick/sammy diff, and pop new assembly back in.   I actually called a local junkyard and got a quote on a sammy diff,  but then I went online to research what needs to be done, and it always seems to be WAY more complicated than it first sounds.  "Oh yeah it's real simple just have a whole tracker as a parts car, part A doesn't quite fit part B so you have to convert the rear too and then part C will be too long so you have to grind the end off..." ETC.   

I can't afford downtime either, this is my daily driver as well.  I really really would like to have all parts in hand before I start disassembling my car.

So, what did you do?  Did you keep your original ratios?  From what it sounds like, now, all I need is the manual hubs (first of all), the differential itself - will any trackick/sammy diff fit and accept my GV's R&P, ie, # of bolts match up?  And then I need that long shaft for the driver's side, and then the CV shaft itself to "hybridize"?  And you say just wrenching, so no grinding was needed?

Installing a "shim" right now still seems to be an unknown, I guess.  Once I'm sure I have all the parts to complete the job, one way or another, in one shot, I'd love to take a look and see if it appears to be doable and if so, EXACTLY what size this shim needs to be.

Thanks for the tips, keep the suggestions coming everyone.

James

Frank84, now that I have time, I'm finding a lot more information on this subject by browsing through your old posts, than I did using the search!!  Thanks!  Now I just need to hear the magic words "4.3 GV gears will fit in a tracker diff"...

I also saw the photo of the air diff you posted -- saved it to my HD.  If it's all nice and exposed like that, it looks fairly easy to tack weld the plate over to make it permanently "on".  So much so, that probably within the month I'll be pulling the diff out to see if I can do it.   If so it'll save a ton of money and all I'll need to find are manual hubs.

James