Hello,
I've been slaving away in my shop working (bearings, knuckle kit and new brake pads) on my 86 Samurai in the evening for the past week. I had a "noise" coming from the front end area. The best way to describe it would be a loud rumbling sound. It did sound like it came from the middle of the front as opposed to the wheels. After searching this site I decided it could be the wheel bearings (I last changed them in 1997).

I am starting to think now that it has something to do with the differential. The spline ends of the axles looked great with no wear detectable. My question for you Samurai guru's is..... Is it possible that the differential gears are shot? Do they just wear out? If so what would be the best fix?

More information...The differential was full of gear oil at the time and my Sammy and I have enjoyed 174,000 miles together. The noise and rumble was so bad I knew something was about to give... big time.

Any thoughts on this would be very much appreciated,
Dennis




 

If it is in the diff then you should be able to pull the axles and rotate the diff by hand and feel the grinding.

Side gears have been known to wear out.  If that is the case, you might want to just get a locker with side gears.  If not, I have a front diff laying in the garage that I believe was out of a front end.  If so you can have it for free next time your over on the mainland.

Gee wizz... That's really nice of you.

I have the the samurai up on car stands .... When I rotate the axle by hand I can feel looseness and roughness in the differential. I can also see the drive shaft move a little then stop as I turn the axle. Something isn't right.
Sorry for my rookie question but what's a locker with side gears?... Is this a major job?... do I need to pull the differential and its housing off the vehicle or can it be done from under the rig?

Thanks for your help,
Dennis

You will need to pull the differential to install it.  If you have removed your front axles that it is a pretty simple procedure to pull the third member.  My rear end had some vibrations that I thought was the drive shaft being out of balance.  After a pulling it though I found out the rear diff was binding up after I broke a rear axle.  After pulling it apart and putting it back together again it ran smooth.

When you order a Lock-Right Locker, you have two options.  One is to use stock side gears, the other is to order one with side gears in it.  If your side gears are shot, then you can get a locker with new gears in it.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm has a great description of how the diff works and shows where the side gears are located. 

When you order a Lock-Right Locker, you have two options.  One is to use stock side gears, the other is to order one with side gears in it.  If your side gears are shot, then you can get a locker with new gears in it.

But when buying a front locker, you don't have the option of replacement side gears (couplers)......you have to use stock side gears.

But when buying a front locker, you don't have the option of replacement side gears (couplers)......you have to use stock side gears.

Upgrading to 26 spline front shafts makes that an option.

Quote from: Skyhiranger on January 17, 2008, 10:58:16 AM

But when buying a front locker, you don't have the option of replacement side gears (couplers)......you have to use stock side gears.

Upgrading to 26 spline front shafts makes that an option.

True.
He didn't say he had "upgraded" shafts, so I was stating info that would pertain to stock shafts.

Thanks for all the help guys,

Today I located a complete third member (Yesterday I didn't even know I owned one) on eBay... that was from a 1991 Samurai that supposedly has low miles on it. This would be the fastest and lest expensive way for me to get back on the road as this is my daily driver. I am sure learning a lot about a car that I've been driving for almost 22 years.... The more I work on it the more I like it... It's the best vehicle I've every owned.

Thanks again,
Dennis

Thanks for all the help guys,

Today I located a complete third member (Yesterday I didn't even know I owned one) on eBay... that was from a 1991 Samurai that supposedly has low miles on it. This would be the fastest and lest expensive way for me to get back on the road as this is my daily driver. I am sure learning a lot about a car that I've been driving for almost 22 years.... The more I work on it the more I like it... It's the best vehicle I've every owned.

Thanks again,
Dennis

That is what I like about samurai's.......easy to work on and very reliable vehicles.....at least in my experience.

The third from the 91 samurai will differ from the one in your 86 in a couple of ways.......1) the bolt pattern on the pinion flange will be larger, and 2) the carrier will be what they call a "2 pin" carrier.  Neither will keep it from working in your samurai, though.  For the bolt pattern difference......just take the end of your driveshaft and line it up on the 91s pinion flange (it will self center, because of the raised ring on the end of the driveshaft)....clock the driveshaft so the bolt holes are halfway between the existing bolt holes and mark/drill new holes in the pinion flange (they don't have to be super accurate, because the bolts simply mate the driveshaft to the pinion flange)......the actual "centering" is done by the raised ring on the driveshaft end, that I mentioned earlier.  The "2 pin" carrier will work as is.  The biggest drawback to having a 2 pin carrier is that if you ever want to add a locker in the front (such as a Lock-Right), you should swap the carrier out for a "4 pin" carrier (it isn't required, but is recommended).

Thanks Skyhiranger....

I'll make a copy of the information above. I plan on keeping my 86 rig semi stock so this 91 3rd member should serve me very well. This was my second major Suzuki malfunction since I bought it... my first being the transmission bearings that went south in 1990 or so. Not bad at all.

Having owned my rig probably longer than any one here, I have always had a feeling of kinship and would do just about anything to help a fellow stranded Samurai driver.

Thanks,
Dennis

This is a update on my Samurai front differential transplant:

The 1991 3rd member that I bought on eBay arrived today... so I went to work pulling the drive shaft and drilling new holes in the flange etc. I then unbolted the old 3rd member and removed it (thanks skyhiranger).

Comparing the two while sitting side by side on my bench I couldn't "feel" any difference between the two while rotating the axle flange... They both felt very smooth and tight. Is it possible that my old member would appear good but only make loud noise/feel rough while bearings are under load? I will be installing the new 3rd member tomorrow as I don't know what else to do.... What else could it be? Any ideas out in Suzuki land?

Thanks for letting me bend your ear,
Dennis

This is a update on my Samurai front differential transplant:

The 1991 3rd member that I bought on eBay arrived today... so I went to work pulling the drive shaft and drilling new holes in the flange etc. I then unbolted the old 3rd member and removed it (thanks skyhiranger).

Comparing the two while sitting side by side on my bench I couldn't "feel" any difference between the two while rotating the axle flange... They both felt very smooth and tight. Is it possible that my old member would appear good but only make loud noise/feel rough while bearings are under load? I will be installing the new 3rd member tomorrow as I don't know what else to do.... What else could it be? Any ideas out in Suzuki land?

Thanks for letting me bend your ear,
Dennis

After you put the new wheel bearings in, did you take it out and drive it to see if the "rumbling" went away?  If not, then the noise could have been the wheel bearings and you could just be wasting your time and money swapping thirds.

I guess one thing that none of us asked you.......did the rumbling occur only with it in 4wd and/or with the lock out hubs turned to lock?  Bad diff gears would only be noisy while in 4wd and/or with the lockouts engaged......if the rumbling occurred while in 2wd AND the lockouts in the free position.....then I would guess it would be wheel bearings.

I did drive it after installing new bearings and the sound/noise had not gone away. It was in 2wd drive with hubs set on FREE. This noise was/is very loud and it felt like something was about to give/blowup. I only drove it half a block before returning to my work shop. I just don't know what to think now.... could it be something to do with the transfer case?

I really appreciate your help,
Dennis

I did drive it after installing new bearings and the sound/noise had not gone away. It was in 2wd drive with hubs set on FREE. This noise was/is very loud and it felt like something was about to give/blowup. I only drove it half a block before returning to my work shop. I just don't know what to think now.... could it be something to do with the transfer case?

I really appreciate your help,
Dennis

Well, tcase noise shouldn't sound like it is coming from the front end (which is where you thought the noise was coming from).....have you checked/changed the oil in it lately, just to make sure?
I suppose it could be the tranny, but generally they start "rumbling" in 5th gear before the other gears, so I would think you would have noticed it in 5th long before it got bad enough to start making noise in other gears.....have you checked/changed the oil in it lately?
Rear driveshaft or intermediate shaft noise shouldn't sound like it is coming from the front either.....have you checked the ujoints lately, just to rule them out?
Does the noise vary with vehicle speed, or engine rpm, or transmission gear, or with the clutch engaged or disengaged?.....If so, describe how.

If you bend the transfer case arms the shifter for it will move around alot and it will make some noise kinda like front end noise.