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OK guy, can you explain something Nology seems to be unable to do on their site? How do these wires work?

http://www.nology.com/hotdetail.html

For those who are bashing this, I am curious, why are you so angry? You seem quite intent on insisting that these wires don't work without really knowing anything about them and seem unwilling to take the time to learn anything about them. This does not make much sense to me, maybe you could help me out with an explanation?

Ok, again.... How do the dang wires work? All I have read both before and now again is the hype on that page. It still does not explain how the wires gain the charge in the first place. Do you hook them straight to the battery or to the coil or do you have a set of pedals you have to pedal to build the charge? Maybe one of those propeller reciever hitch plugs winds them up?

And I have taken the time to read up on these snake oil wires. Their site seems to be missing some important info.

I have a question for you. You started this by bashing the MSD style box's stating that they all fail. Why?

By the way, how much stock do you own in nology?

Ok, again.... How do the dang wires work?

A capacitor can be configured so it stores energy until there is a drop in supply voltage, at which point it will discharge the voltage at once. 

What I think they are claiming is that when your ignition fires it will charge up the capacitor will the entire voltage of your ignition box.  Once the engine is done "firing" the voltage will drop and the capacitor will discharge the entire "charge" at once, theoretically faster then the ignition system can giving you a very fast single spark.  I assume this is why you need to advance your timing, to make up for the slight delay added by the capacitors.

This is just what I'm remembering from Electronics all those years ago, so I may be a bit off. 

Quote from: phloop on December 01, 2007, 06:48:41 PM

Ok, again.... How do the dang wires work?

A capacitor can be configured so it stores energy until there is a drop in supply voltage, at which point it will discharge the voltage at once. 

What I think they are claiming is that when your ignition fires it will charge up the capacitor will the entire voltage of your ignition box.  Once the engine is done "firing" the voltage will drop and the capacitor will discharge the entire "charge" at once, theoretically faster then the ignition system can giving you a very fast single spark.  I assume this is why you need to advance your timing, to make up for the slight delay added by the capacitors.

This is just what I'm remembering from Electronics all those years ago, so I may be a bit off. 

OK I have that part figured out. The part I want to know is how the capacitor part of those wires gain their charge. I see on the web site that the wires have a grounding point but no charging point.

How do the cap's get charged?

And another point, you have to charge a cap prior to use. How do you charge it before the spark plug fires? It has to get it's energy from some place, where is that some place?

And another thing, from the drawings I looked at there are no connections to the plug wire from the cap. It is insulated, and most people know that electricity will not flow when it is insulated from any contact. The wires are grounded but that don't mean squat when they have no way of being charged in the first place.

Here is you chance to shine sidekicksrock, sell me on these wires.

It seems to me that harping after a guy for just giving his opinion in a forum is not how things are done around here.  It sets a tone that could make someone reluctant to post a question (or answer).  I have had many hours and much money saved thanks to many of the regular posters on this forum and I try to return the favor.  It would be nice if we could keep it that way.

Here is you chance to shine sidekicksrock, sell me on these wires.

I am not trying to sell you anything, I am just trying to figure out why you are so intent on convincing everyone that it doesn't work. I read the site and all the information is there.

The spark plug wires are connected to the spark plugs and the distributor cap.

The technology is real basic, The charge from the coil is captured by the capacitor and stored until the voltage from the coil stops. The current is then released as a higher voltage short duration pulse.

I'm starting to wish I kept the " helpful tip" to my self. My back ground is not a enginer nor Nology investor. But someone who builds performace off road Toyota truck. Most with 22-re engines. I have installed no less than 200 sets of Nologys ign. systems at my work. How aftermarket stuff works on "MY" motors & feed back from customers who have had them installed is all that matters to me. (And them). I have taken my time to try & help a fellow Suzuki owner on one of the few sites I respect. For some reason Suzuki owners overall haven't "until now" checked Nology out. The system is a natural for us as making more power & m.p.g. are big part of owning a older model 4 cyl. "Yes the lastest models are better in both of these areas". The last thing I tell you about Nology is we take the plug gap from .032 to .040.(As per. Nology). Poss. this is where the gains are. All I can tell you is My X90 is faster "off the line" & about 2 mph faster on long freeway grades I drive every week to the desert. Ya, 2 isn't much unless "I'm passing you!). OH, And for the few who think im trying to "sale or push" a product, I say how can I make $ when not only have I not given you my shops name or info but my web site? Go figure? For the rest of you just check them out if you want as I said (2 pages ago!) Merry Christmas

The technology is real basic, The charge from the coil is captured by the capacitor and stored until the voltage from the coil stops. The current is then released as a higher voltage short duration pulse.

It has to be more complex than that because the voltage from the coil stops at the end of the spark. The coil is charged at 12V on the primary (coil) side. When the current source is diconnected the magnetic field collapses and a voltage builds on both sides of the coil. On the secondary (plug) side the energy has no where to go so it builds until there is sufficient energy to overcome the spark plug gap. Once the spark is formed it takes less energy to maintain it and it will continue until there isn't enough energy left in the coil to sustain the spark.

The patent for the nology wires can be read here:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6559376.html

So the capacitor will charge as the energy builds across the coil. Once the spark is formed there is a drop in voltage and the capacitor will discharge. The maximum voltage across the plug is determined by the spark plug gap, cylinder temperature and pressure and a few other parameters. Even if the capacitor were to discharge quickly, the spark should still be maintained until the coil has discharged so the spark duration wouldn't be shorter.
The control of the spark is apparently achieved by the ratio of the resitance between the coil and the capacitor and the capacitor and the plug.
Its an interesting concept but I still don't see how it could work.

I'm starting to wish I kept the " helpful tip" to my self. My back ground is not a enginer nor Nology investor. But someone who builds performace off road Toyota truck. Most with 22-re engines. I have installed no less than 200 sets of Nologys ign. systems at my work. How aftermarket stuff works on "MY" motors & feed back from customers who have had them installed is all that matters to me. (And them). I have taken my time to try & help a fellow Suzuki owner on one of the few sites I respect. For some reason Suzuki owners overall haven't "until now" checked Nology out. The system is a natural for us as making more power & m.p.g. are big part of owning a older model 4 cyl. "Yes the lastest models are better in both of these areas". The last thing I tell you about Nology is we take the plug gap from .032 to .040.(As per. Nology). Poss. this is where the gains are. All I can tell you is My X90 is faster "off the line" & about 2 mph faster on long freeway grades I drive every week to the desert. Ya, 2 isn't much unless "I'm passing you!). OH, And for the few who think im trying to "sale or push" a product, I say how can I make $ when not only have I not given you my shops name or info but my web site? Go figure? For the rest of you just check them out if you want as I said (2 pages ago!) Merry Christmas

As an engineer I won't say something doesn't work until I've seen some proper independant tests. I will say that I don't see how these can work. Have you got an ignition oscilloscope in your shop? It would be interesting to see some traces from the high voltage side. Conventional v Nology. Increasing the gap from 32 to 40 will give a higher plug voltage anyway - if the stock coil is capable of providing enough power. It is a big increase for a stock coil though.

As an engineer I won't say something doesn't work until I've seen some proper independant tests. I will say that I don't see how these can work. Have you got an ignition oscilloscope in your shop? It would be interesting to see some traces from the high voltage side. Conventional v Nology. Increasing the gap from 32 to 40 will give a higher plug voltage anyway - if the stock coil is capable of providing enough power. It is a big increase for a stock coil though.

I'm not sure if it would work, but the idea is interesting.  The amount of power in the spark isn't changing at all, it is just compressed into a shorter time period.  A lot of the power difference probably has to do with the engine design.  Heck, you wouldn't think that a Throttle Body spacer would work, but they do.

I suppose it comes down to what you think works best for a spark.  Long burn or short and hot...

wow... this thread is still goin?!


sheeesh, could use some of you guys by the water cooler! 

Ya, this thread sounds like it should be on Pirate bbs
 I've seen Toy yoda's shop and I know that he's legit.

     Kevin

wow... this thread is still goin?!

I tried to quite... but I keep coming back.  I need some help... so cold... 

Ya, this thread sounds like it should be on Pirate bbs
 I've seen Toy yoda's shop and I know that he's legit.

     Kevin

There's actually this thread at pirate http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=595113 that
it is pretty much the same concept ... (pulstar does it with plugs not wires).

I'm not saying ToyYoda is "wrong" ... and if he's selling these things to 200 odd people he's a good business person.

Just that I won't buy until I see somthing that *indepentently* shows me some results worth the $170.

My last post on this thread...

I have to ask again, how do the cap's around the wires gain their charge? They need to be charged to provide the power they provide. Where's that power coming from? I stated that the nology site shows a drawing of their wires with a ground strap but I have yet too see a power lead or an explanation of how the cap's get their power/charge. And why do they need a ground strap when they have no power input?

And as the cap's are around the insulation of the plug wire, how does the voltage from the cap get to the plug in the first place?

And toyoda, you really did start all of this commotion with the statement that the MSD style box's fail in the offroad environment and went on to sell those wires.

I really do not care one way or the other, but I would still like to see how the wires work. The nology site does not explain how their own product works (just the hype of the added power that they keep throwing out) so I am looking for that info here now that you brought them up.



And after reading my post before posting it I have another question. Why have a ground strap when you have no positive input to the cap's around the wires in the first place???

OK Phloop, The spark plug wire is connected to the distributor cap where it gets its charge from the coil. The voltage goes into the capacitor where it builds until it is released to the plug in a single short burst. The reason for the ground wire is because that is how capacitors work. In order to drain them, in this case across the spark plug gap you need a closed circuit thus the ground wire from the negative side of the capacitor.

Now for those here smarter than I, I spent some time today doing a little Internet research to try and get a good handle on this so I could explain it. A couple of things I am not clear on:

1st as the coil voltage is building in the capacitor what is actually increasing? The capacitor will continue to store voltage until it is equalized with the voltage source in this case the coil so 30-40,000 volts. But would the amperage increase over a stock induction ignition?

2nd what would be used to trigger the discharge? Would the increased plug gap be enough to delay the spark and allow the capacitor to charge or would there need to be a resistor or some other trigger in line which would open once a certain voltage is reached?