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Lockers...spools?

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ZukisandRotarys

Lockers...spools?
« on: March 23, 2007, 06:34:13 PM »
I'm looking into the locker ordeal. I know what a locker is and what it does. But someone said that.. well a lockrite locker will "save" your rear end around corners. And lockrite lockers ARNT limited slips. Then how does a lockrite locker save your rear end anymore then a spool would? what is a spool? Both of these things lock it up. I don't understand how one is better than the other around corners.
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Offline ROSS

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2007, 06:35:51 PM »
go with the arbs.  best of both worlds
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ZukisandRotarys

Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2007, 06:51:59 PM »
No offense but that was a terrible reply. You didn't answer any of my questions. And yeah, best for on road and off road, and the biggest burden on the budget. They are nice, But this will hardly be used on the road.
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Offline ROSS

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2007, 06:58:33 PM »
the lockrites for the rear can be bought with sidecouplers.  this works like a rachet while turning. thus keeping your tires  from waring out on the street.  what you hear is a click click click while turning.  a spool is locked up all the time , thus waring on your tires while turning on the street. i still say save your money up and buy arbs.  you won't be sorry
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 07:04:59 PM by ROSS »
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87 SAMI 1600 FUEL INJ. , TORQUER CAM, 6.5 TO 1T-CASE, 5"SPRINGS SHACKLE REVERSE ,2 BODY LIFT, LOCK-RITES FRONT W/ HEAVY-DUTY AXLES & ARB'S REAR  BFG 31 X10.50 X 16",  EXO SKELLETON,
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Offline stock93tracker

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2007, 07:40:22 PM »
spend 100 bucks on a spool and learn to take corners wider  ;D
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Offline ack

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 09:02:40 PM »
As it so happens, there is an excellent explanation of the different types of differentials given in a new Internet Radio program called Ack's Garage.   

Go to Ack's FAQ (the link is in my signature below) and click on the Ack's Garage button to access the first five episodes.  Episode #2 is the one to listen to.

I have driven a vehicle equipped with hydraulically-acutated lockers (identical in function to air- acutated lockers like the ARB units) and they can turn a well-mannered roadworthy vehicle into an MONSTER offroader!  Unfortunately, they are very expensive compared to racheting lockers.
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Offline TysonS

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2007, 09:16:34 PM »
weld r up  ;D cheaper then a spool :o
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ZukisandRotarys

Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2007, 09:26:53 PM »
Where can i get spools though? I don't know any experienced welders... heh.

I'm interested in the spool or welded in the front, considering i can just unlock my hubs.

A lockrite in the back. I don't care if it clicks. If anything i'd get a kick out of it. But because of the way I am, I need to know how it works. It ratchets? Well how does it know when to ratchet. What would stop it from ratcheting on the trail? The only thing i can think of is that there is a high pressure spring of some sort in the differential, and the only way to get enough pressure for the locker to back off would be the traction of concrete. Am I right?
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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2007, 10:50:12 PM »
It rachets because there are two pieces in the center that ride on the four center pins that have elongated holes in them that ride on the center pins so that when power is applied it spreads them out and pushes the theeth into the side gears, let off the gas they return to the center, so let off the gas go around the corner, get it.
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Offline Quaddawg

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2007, 02:22:08 AM »
Quote from: ZukisandRotarys on March 23, 2007, 09:26:53 PM
Where can i get spools though? I don't know any experienced welders... heh.

I'm interested in the spool or welded in the front, considering i can just unlock my hubs.

A lockrite in the back. I don't care if it clicks. If anything i'd get a kick out of it. But because of the way I am, I need to know how it works. It ratchets? Well how does it know when to ratchet. What would stop it from ratcheting on the trail? The only thing i can think of is that there is a high pressure spring of some sort in the differential, and the only way to get enough pressure for the locker to back off would be the traction of concrete. Am I right?

No spools are made for the front, that I know of.. It would be a horrible idea anyway, as it wouldn't steer worth crap.

Not sure what vehicle you have, but it doesn't matter, lockrite is a better choice for the front IMO (since you can't spend the $$ for an ARB)


Spool for rear. Randy's Ring and Pinion (sammy spool fits kick too)  or Trail Tough, and others.


The lockrite locks up under acceleration. Where there is pressure the teeth engage each other and lock it up tight (in theory)  When you are not accelerating, the "gears" (not really gears) are free to "ratchet" and allow the tires to turn different speeds, hence the clicking.

Lockrites must be set up correctly, or they won't work right, and can break quite easily.. I vote mini-spool (that is what is available.. don't know of any full spool on the market for zooks)  or weld'em up good.


Go do a search on Lockrite, and take a look at the pictures, it might help you understand how it works.

Peace.
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Offline lil_Truck

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2007, 07:24:47 AM »
Don't know if you understand it yet, so I'll give it a try.

You have a differential so that when you go around corners, the inner wheels can go slower than the outside.  There are gears in the center that do this.  If you are going straight the wheels are going the same speed so power is distrubitued evenly to both tires.

The reason "one" tire will spin sometime is that, one tires will loose traction and the other one won't.  This causes the gears in the differential to react and spin one tire.

Spool:  A spool has no gears, it is not a differential.  Having a spool is like having a straight axil from one wheel to the other.  Both wheels turn the same speed all the time.  The problem with corners is that the inner wheel travels a shorter distance than the outter.  So what happens is that one tires will be draged on the road in every turn.  This can cause tires where and/or break an axil if the turn is sharp enof and under full power.

Locker:  There are a lot of different ways that lockers work, but in a nut shell.  The gears are set up so that when when under slight to no load, the gears will rotate and allow the wheels to turn at different speeds (around turns).  If the gear set is under meduim to heavy loads the gear set locks together and becomes like a spool. 

          What also will lock up the gear set in a locker is when there is big difference in the wheel speed.  Like if you lift up a tire off roading or one tire is on mud/snow.


ARB Lockers:  An ARB is a open diff and works just like the stock differential.  But when you apply air to the lockers, a diaphram moves and lockes the gears together and so it becomes a spool and will stay locked untill the air pressure is removed.
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ozziel

Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2007, 09:38:38 PM »
Trail Tough's mini spool is a nice peice of work and VERY easy to install. It took me about an hour. I have one in the rear of my Sammy. It was welded but I guess I didn't clean it all that well before welding and all hell broke loose one day. No problems since.

I have a non-coupler type Lock-Rite in the front. I don't know when, how or even IF it unlocks, I don't use it ever on the street, but my rig is a monster ever since I installed it. Point the wheels and go! Installation was pretty straight forward.

IMHO:
If cash is not a problem, ARBs are the way to go.
If cash is a bit tight, spool rear and locker front is the ticket.
If cash is non-existant....weld'em up and away you go. Remeber to clean it thuroughly before welding!

You get used to the tire scrubbing and learn to turn wide (as someone mentioned). I have not heard of anybody breaking a rear axle with a spool...but I have heard of blowing birfs with a welded front though...."but what were you doing with the hubs lock on dry pavement?"


Oz
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Offline Yankee-Tim

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 12:06:33 PM »
Quote from: ZukisandRotarys on March 23, 2007, 06:51:59 PM
No offense but that was a terrible reply. You didn't answer any of my questions. And yeah, best for on road and off road, and the biggest burden on the budget. They are nice, But this will hardly be used on the road.

While I agree that his reply didn't fully answer your questions, it was a responible answer to a suggestion.

Lunch-box lockers suck.  Period.  Yeah, they "do" the job, but the consiquences aren't pretty.  Lunch-box Lockers (ie. Lock-Bites, slEZ-Lockers) put un-needed stress on the shafts with the constant loading and unloading.  Things that have happened to my and my buddy

1) Snapped shafts (loading/unloading issue)
2) Broken Stock Sidegears (OEM is not 4340)
3) Broken 1530 sidegears (even Lock-Bite sidegears are crappola)
4) Broken Sidegears that break the carrier
5) So many munched pins and springs in ain't funny

All of these thing happened to lockers installed professionally by an ASE A tech.

If you are on a budget, and don't wheel much or won't be in the sport for long, then a Lunch-box will be fine.  But over time, the costs for repairs may add up.  Maybe more than an ARB

As for the spool, if it's trail only, it's the better bet.  With 4340 steel, the spool won't shatter like sidegears do when a shaft fails.  And it has predictable trail manners, not the loading/unloading crappola and nasty *snap* noises lunch-boxes are notorious for.

For the best, it's a selectable locker, such as KAM or ARB.  These allow full spool or wide open, all at the flick of a switch.  Damn nice, and you pay for that damn nice feeling.

My GV has an ARB rear.  Since it was roaded, I wouldn't have it any other way.

My Sammy *had*  1510 lockers.  I hate them now.  I recently put a mini-spool in the rear (its a trail rig), and I'm build a hybrid front with an ARB up there.  Locked when I need it, open when I don't.

Of course, this is advice on what you *should* run, even though you didn't ask for it.
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Offline RHodge

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 06:49:33 PM »
I loved my spool in the back of my samy , wasn't bad on th street  till all the bolts came out of the ring geer (but I think the tech didn't lock-tite them)

I just bought a sidekick/samy rearend with the "Lock-Bites" and I'm going to run them till they brake then swith to arb's

Ryan
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Offline spazzz

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Re: Lockers...spools?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 11:43:07 PM »
I run a spool in the rear of my Track/Kick d/d and love it.. you do have to learn to take corners a little wider and I don't park as close to the mall doors as I used to but I need the extra excercise now since I don't have to get out and winch as much.. it is a little harder on tires too but I just air up a few more psi around town and the tire scrub feels a little less..auto locker is next for the front...
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