Typos fixed in URL's or links above.

Quote from: arced on March 28, 2016, 12:17:13 AM

Typos fixed in URL's or links above.

arced,
Very interesting information (at least to me), the ability to interchange parts and/or extend range of uses is what makes our builds easier and better.  I (that may just be me) would like to see this in new link (not to hijack the "Front 3rd member rebuild issue's").  I have been working/researching along the same ideas and do think that changing TC's can be included to other models/manufactures.  Thanks for getting me distracted this morning for at least an hour.  Where are you located?

4xfourart 5.72 Diff Gear Noise:

http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52018

Looking at that pic of the ring gear, it appears to me the ring gear adjustment was good BUT pinion depth isn't  set-up properly.  For new pinion and ring gears the "wear" pattern should be centered between the inside and out side of the ring gear teeth.  However, the pinion gear wear pattern is wearing on the inside (toe) of the ring gear teeth (the bottom red oval in the pic).  The wear pattern should be centered between the inside (toe) and outside (heel) of the ring gear (the top red oval in below pic).   I'm going to say the guy who installed these gears used too thick of (or too many stacked) shims on the pinion gear which pushed the pinion contact patch up too far into the ring gear.  As the gear mating surfaces wear over time, the contact patch becomes wider and deeper to reflect the metal worn from the constant meshing contact.  You want this contact patch initially centered on the ring gear so as this wear occurs naturally... there is room for the contact patch to spread evenly across the ring gear mating surfaces:  in both (height and width) directions.  If they aren't properly centered initially, using the correct height of shims for the pinion gear and the proper back lash clearance on the ring gear, as the gears wear in they will develop uneven wearing patterns.  In the case of this pic, I would bet the pinion gear is or will soon be developing a "lip" on the pinion gear where it extends too far inside onto the "toe" of the ring gear.  My thought is these gears (in this pic) weren't set-up properly initially, which places the fault with the mechanic who did the work far more than the composition of the metal of these gears.  I don't think the material is as important here as the proper set-up of the gears, initially.  Even if the gears are made of titanium, they will still wear improperly when they aren't set-up correctly initially.  That's what I think.  It is a good idea to drive on the gears for a few miles and then get out and feel the diff case to see if there is excessive heat build up in them initially after a rebuild.  They should be warm to the touch, as in you can leave you fingers on them for a few seconds before they feel too hot.  If they are too hot to even leave your fingers on them a second, something is probably wrong.  I'll bet this diff was kicking up some heat after a few miles.  It's nice if they don't leak anywhere after a rebuild, but there is more to installing them.

Hi this is my car in the photos above.  Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.
1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.
2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.
3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900. Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving.  I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution.  I will update on the outcome.  I appreciate the input.

Quote from: arced on March 23, 2016, 11:50:24 AM

#1. Would a T-Case low gear set reduce the need for 4xfourart R & P gears for the following models?:

Calmini 1991–1998 Trackicks:

http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=5&t=3&p=957&n=

Calmini 1999–2002 Vitara:

http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=7&t=3&p=759&n=

Trail Tough 1991-1998 Trackicks & 1991-2001 Vitara:

http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53

#2. Is Low Range Off Road fully accurate when they say that Trail Tough's T-Case low gear set is also good for 1999-2001 Grand Vitaras??:

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html

In a nutshell:  No, not if you are running 31" or larger tires on stock differential gearing.  These transfer case gears for the Kicks and Trackers only increase gearing while shifted into low range (unlike the Sammy t-case gears).  In high range they do nothing to increase the mechanical advantage to the wheels.  So the guys who are experiencing "power" loss issues from increasing their tire diameters (along with the increased tire weight as well) will receive no relief when driving on the pavement with a set of transfer case gears, alone.  The only time they would benefit is when they are wheeling off road while in low range.  Then the increased t-case gearing would be helpful. 

If it were me, I'd upgrade the differential gearing first.  Over gear it a little even.  This would help distribute the stress across the entire drive more evenly, reduce pressure points, and provide more "power" when driving on the pavement at all speeds, in all gears.  This would also increase the mechanical advantage from the transfer case proportionally when shifted into and driving in low range as well.  Then... IF that wasn't enough of an increase in gearing to do that which the owner needed for where and how he drives his truck... THEN I would invest in the reduced T-case gears next.

Keeping the stress balanced throughout the drive train will enhance the longevity of the entire drive train (to include the clutch and tranny) and reduce breakage at the high stress points that you would have if it were not evenly balanced out... like u-joints and clutches smoked prematurely.

Looking at that pic of the ring gear, it appears to me the ring gear adjustment was good BUT pinion depth isn't set-up properly.  For new pinion and ring gears the "wear" pattern should be centered between the inside and out side of the ring gear teeth.  However, the pinion gear wear pattern is wearing on the inside (toe) of the ring gear teeth (the bottom red oval in the pic).  The wear pattern should be centered between the inside (toe) and outside (heel) of the ring gear (the top red oval in below pic).   I'm going to say the guy who installed these gears used too thick of (or too many stacked) shims on the pinion gear which pushed the pinion contact patch up too far into the ring gear.  As the gear mating surfaces wear over time, the contact patch becomes wider and deeper to reflect the metal worn from the constant meshing contact.  You want this contact patch initially centered on the ring gear so as this wear occurs naturally... there is room for the contact patch to spread evenly across the ring gear mating surfaces:  in both (height and width) directions.  If they aren't properly centered initially, using the correct height of shims for the pinion gear and the proper back lash clearance on the ring gear, as the gears wear in they will develop uneven wearing patterns.  In the case of this pic, I would bet the pinion gear is or will soon be developing a "lip" on the pinion gear where it extends too far inside onto the "toe" of the ring gear.  My thought is these gears (in this pic) weren't set-up properly initially, which places the fault with the mechanic who did the work far more than the composition of the metal of these gears.  I don't think the material is as important here as the proper set-up of the gears, initially.  Even if the gears are made of titanium, they will still wear improperly when they aren't set-up correctly initially.  That's what I think.  It is a good idea to drive on the gears for a few miles and then get out and feel the diff case to see if there is excessive heat build up in them initially after a rebuild.  They should be warm to the touch, as in you can leave you fingers on them for a few seconds before they feel too hot.  If they are too hot to even leave your fingers on them a second, something is probably wrong.  I'll bet this diff was kicking up some heat after a few miles.  It's nice if they don't leak anywhere after a rebuild, but there is more to installing them.

Hi this is my car in the photos above.  Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.
1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.
2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.
3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900.  Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving.  I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution. I will update on the outcome.  I appreciate the input.

Hi this is my car in the photos above.

Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.

1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.

2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.

3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900. Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving.

I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution. I will update on the outcome.

I appreciate the input.

My only issue is the "lockrites" don't like to unlock on cornering most the time.  I wasnt too surprised as I have run one some years ago with the same issue in a '70 Chevy 4X4.

Suzuki/Geo Doublers are here!:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here.html

Quote from: DOWNEASTER on April 26, 2016, 01:56:24 PM

My only issue is the "lockrites" don't like to unlock on cornering most the time.  I wasnt too surprised as I have run one some years ago with the same issue in a '70 Chevy 4X4.

#1. Is that both front & rear, or just the front?

#2. If you had it to do over, would you still get the new R & P's, or would you get T-Case low gears:
     Hello friend, yes i would go with the 5:85 gears if i did it over.PLUS the T-case low gears. the lockrights are great off road lockers for the money and they are tough.But you have to remember they are made for "off road" use, not 90+% on road use.So,if run on the street you can look forward to very fast tire wear and or noise from the diffs.plus tires will squeal on nearly all corning.But most of these issues will be the same on 99.9% of diff lockers that are street driven.And i can live with the tradeoff issues as they will sell them selves when your in deep mud or rock climbing. 
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53

Hi this is my car in the photos above.

Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.

1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.

2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.

3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900. Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving.

I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution. I will update on the outcome.

I appreciate the input.