Hello,
First let me start this post by giving you some background thought processes to ponder.

I get several 4x4 mags and reciently I have noticed several rigs that utalize the winch to preload
the front end for hill climbs. Naturaly the rear end extends right.
if this process works for uphill. Will the oppsite work for down hill? rear down front up? Help
with nose stands and fliping end over end... Or even off camber situations. left up right down.

 In other words will an active suspention set up using any combo of the following allow you to maintain your center of gravity, gain more traction, reduce rebound roll-overs and custamize ride height:
- Airbags (maybe too slow)
- Hydro rams and spring jacks (too heavy???)
- Air rams and spring jacks  (??)

let hear what you think, have you seen something like this?

O I wish I had a shop to mock up this idea. I would love to try out this concept.

Theoretically it should work...  Not sure how effective it would be.  My main problem when going downhill is loosing traction when it is slick out.  Usually just gearing down is enough to control it.  The other issue is just wheelbase, and I don't think changing the ride level would fix the fact that my wheels are going to be straight up and down when I hit the bottom.  The center of gravity is still going to be above the front wheel at that point, so when my front end hits I'll go over.

But, I suppose every little bit helps. 

A lot of guys run small winches front and rear to compress there suspension.  Most of these guys are running coil buggies or some sort of air shock.

I have seen guys running air bags also they could adjust for side hilling and other unstable times.

Also seen hydro cylinders placed at all 4 corners of rigs, i haven't seen to much of these in action just lots of pics.

I can try and hunt down some pics if you want


Amilla

Thanks for the response, yes I would like to see some pics if you can find them.  I have a friend with this sort of setup using airbags and only in the front. It takes awhile to air up and down.

The winch idea will work for the two axis front and rear, but I think it will be a little slow in response.

Wheel base is always too short for me. (i have a two door track). 

My goal with this is to tie all four corners to a programable gyroscopic stability/traction control unit,that will alter the suspention travel and position.

I know...Techno geek here...

I've also seen an adaptor to fill my tires with water to act as a balast and keep the CG low. I think I will need more motor to try this option.
 

Man, and I thought I was all gizmo'd out! Sounds fasinating, love to see it done.

That's a great idea, and I actually had this thought awhile back when I was in one of my design classes. An "active response" suspension could be interesting and hold a lot of potential. I did some research back then, and came across a system that is basically doing this already, of coarse not for the Tracker/kick. And I'm sure you can guess what it is made for....

I have still thought about it, and air bags would be the way to go. If you want faster response just run more pressure, ie bigger/better tank. And your right a gyro and processor to monitor pressure at each corner would probably be the route to take.

Here is the link to a system called Airock by ORO (off road only).

http://www.offroadonly.com/products/suspension/airock/airock1.shtml


I've had ideas on chips to use and how to implement them, but unfortunately I've been slowed down on a lot of my tracker projects....I would be interested to here any progress you make.

Hey, exactly! a total replacement of the coil saves weight and simplifies system. my rear third has a vss built in. The wheels are turning.

I think you guys are looking for a fast acting, long travel Land Rover Air spring/ shock system.
I like the idea and I always  wanted to see the system plugged into a high out put compressor and a resevor large enough to double for tools and tire inflation.
Having worked on Land Rovers I can tell you that this is a headache enducing system and the most commen problem to bring newer Rovers into the shop.
I think if the pump and resevor operated at higher psi with a regulator to the air bags you could run the system faster maybe oversized high flow high pressure lines could help with reaction time. Maybe electric in cabin controlable relief sylonoids to "blow off" and lower each corner indevidually... Or even lock modes.

THe LR system can maintain different heights, self adjust to center weight, raise and lower; but it is too slow acting to make a lot of dynamic use out of. It also doesn't have the kind of travel that we aspire to and nothing worth bragging about. The older LR systems just try to keep the suspension level more than keep the vehicle level. Mercadies claims a fast acting system for level cornering and braking on some of thier vehicles.

A lot of people get tired of paying to continually repair the system, leaks, sylonoids, bags and relays, etc. and choose to move to springs... If you could find sombody who is willing to sell thier system and replace the bags with something more like the smaller diameter bags from Lincoln or Caddy.

I have been entersted in this for a while and kind of wondered if you can make a cheap homebuilt system with something like this:
http://www.rcplaneguide.com/X_UFO_RC_Flying_Toy.html
 Use a sylonoid in place of each motor with a controlled release at each corner and be able to manually over ride the ride hight.                    Just some thougts.                                  NMc

Check out this site: http://www.easystreetair.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=58.
Lots of Parts.

What about a hydraulic approach, could certainly be faster then an air bag system.  Heck you could even make it a dancer, and hop up the hills!! 



But seriously, a hydraulic system could give you the response time needed for a truly dynamic suspension.

actually air can be quite fast...



of coarse it does require you regenerate it. ie compressor/big tank. But the way I looked at is, having onboard air is a plus.

If you look into the airbag scene, of coarse it's going to take you to low riders. But they have alot of exp. with air setups, and some pretty crazy controller setups. From what I found one of the better places to buy (quality+price) is SD.

http://www.suicidedoors.com

Heiney.5 great site! Lots of stuff. It looks like most of the air kit is all off the shelf stuff.  I will have to fab the brackets for the bags. That will take care of the hardware, now for the electronic stuff. Any electrical engineers out there? I like airock's use of height senisors, and the presets for different driving surfaces. I don't like the four in one manifold. if one goes you have to replace the whole assembily.

wow! and people say we are hard on our cars. Here's a vid of a 4x4 that shows some cool aspects of controlled suspention.


I've thought about putting a suck down wench in the rear of my sidekick and hydrolics in the front. But the money thing keeps me from doing it. I've also seen a sami with a suck down winch in front and rear, very cool. Here is a link to his build thread http://rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=49447&highlight=Suisuki

actually air can be quite fast...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8lJXhJLNR8

of coarse it does require you regenerate it. ie compressor/big tank. But the way I looked at is, having onboard air is a plus.

If you look into the airbag scene, of coarse it's going to take you to low riders. But they have alot of exp. with air setups, and some pretty crazy controller setups. From what I found one of the better places to buy (quality+price) is SD.

http://www.suicidedoors.com

He is right air baga can be very fast! The speed of the bags are ultimately controlled by size of air lines and valves and also system pressure! Most of the air bag hoppers you see like the one on the video run nitrogen tanks as opposed to compressors! Lots of pressure! Thats where the speed comes from! The only downfall for running something like that on a trail rig is 1. The size of the cylinder in a small rig like a suzuki and 2. the inability to reproduce itself like an air compressor! A regular air bags set up should be plenty fast for what we are talking about in this case.