Yankee Tim mentioned switching to an ARB to save axel breakage. I am running a Detroit in the front,Lockrite rear 5.83's and a 4:1. I have thought about an ARB but dont know if I would like the manual operation, limited steering etc.
I realy like the auto locking lockers. I have never had an ARB but watching others with them I dont think I would like it :-/ With the Detroit, if I hit wheel spin, it locks. I dont get half way up a hill, start spinning, realize I need the locker, stop, lock it in , and then attempt to get started again in the middle of a hard obsticle.  I also like just letting off the gas a little bit to disengage the locker to turn, instead of stoping, unlocking, turning tight, and then re-locking.

Am I wrong in my impression in the ARB usage I have only seen them being used, and almost everyone in my club that has used them has ended up ditching them and replacing them with a detroit.

Zig

Should go like this.

Hey that's a steep hill, I'll just hit the locker before
I get on that hill, ahh got all the way up, O dang it,
it's a dead end (nobody else ever got that far up there)
I guess I'll turn off the locker and turn around, head back
down, now I'll hit the locker again so I don't start sliding
a front wheel on descent.

That's about how you should use it    

PS anyone got a front ARB they don't want in  your group,
(I meana front for a Kick)

Darrin

I'm not pickng yer stuff apart, I don't now how to make multiple quotes here to give you my thoughts on each item, so here it goes.

limited steering- Not really.  In fact, it's improved.  Let me explain.  When wheeling, and torque is on the tires, the detroit is locked, even if turning, it's still locked, so the net effect will be the same as if it's spooled, or locked/spooled on demand (ARB).  There is not differenct trying to turn a engaged-locker rig than a spooled rig in the rocks and dirt.   In fact, when I wheel my Sammy, sometimes the front Lockrite is engaged during a turn, and driving me straight when I'm turned.  I usually got to do this throttle blurp thing to get it to snap, unlock, and make turning easier.

Two things.  One, a switch to simply turn it off would make that situation so much easier.  Two, the is one of the places where that load/unload keeps taking place, each time weaking the joint.

manual operation.... I dont get half way up a hill, start spinning, realize I need the locker, stop, lock it in , and then attempt to get started again in the middle of a hard obsticle.   - In my GV, where the ARB resides, I try to leave the locker off on parts of the trail where it's not needed.  Less stress, more filing.  Wheeling experience will tell you when you need it or not, as you become more familiar with your rig's capability.  You, and the experience you have with your rig, would be slappin' ARB switches on and off like your were Scotty in the engine room.  Believe me on this, the ability for the driver to make the choice of when to be locked is far better than that the locker making that choice "automatically".  Remember, an ARB can be turned on and off at speeds over 60MPH.

I was once a nay sayer about ARBs, or any switchable locker.  For one, it was too much cash I thought, and I didn't like the idea that if I was on the road locked, I couldn't differentiate axles.  And I didn't see the need.  But time has changed that impression.  On the road, *flick* and I'm open and completely transparent.  My Sammy sucks on the road, even for small rides to trail heads, mainly due to the twitchy Lockrite.

And I've had my fair share and as well witnessed a boatload of lunchbox locker ills.  I've shattered a Lockright, stripped teeth in another, and seen several Detroits and Lockrights do the same thing.  The way they can munch down pins and springs, it would seem to be lunchbox lockers main food source.  And any deviation in the tube's straightness (and we know how tough Zook tubes are ), a locker will snap and pop all the time.

I don't call them lunchbox lockers in a disparaging way.  It's a term used to describe that type of locker compared to a full Detroit-type that replaces the entire carrier.  The lunchbox works inside the stock carrier, hench "lunchbox".  The cost less, but you resue the weaker stock carrier.  Which brings a second point,  the stock Zook carriers are not as strong as the carriers of a full-Detroit or an ARB.  I've seen many rear axles go, and especially in Kick diffs, take out the sidegear and many times, the carrier as well.

When I shattered the BIG GV axle, I drove it 5+ miles out of the park.  I figured the ARB carrier toast , based on my experience with similar breaks with rear Kick 3rds.  Nope, all good, even though the break was so bad it would have wasted a stock carrier, and many others there commented.  Some minor damage to one of the carrier caps, due mainly to my self extracation.  A quick call to ARB resulted in the replacement part and some extra back-up parts for a low price (under $50) and FAST.  The service alone is a reason to own an ARB, really.

I'm not bashing the use of lunchboxes, hell, I've got them front and rear in my Sammy.  I got the ARB mainly because I wanted my GV to be nice, and mostly roadable.  The ARB was the only transparent locker available.  I wish there was an E-locker, just so I could eliminate the only weak link in the the ARB, the use of air.  Even that, if carefully installed, is never a problem.

But being a ARB user now, I'm converted.  Almost evangelical.  A couple of good Zook buddies from New England have "see the light", and now that they have them, love them too, same reasons.  Wildweasel put them in his new Kick LA coily, and is very happy with his choice.  The only times I've heard of dislikes (besides high price) is the air leak/air pump issues.  Air leaks are almost always a install issue, but sometimes trail damage.  Pump issues almost always due to low maintainence or poor mounting location (engine bay)

As for the front CV issue, you can ask Kerry.  He still breaks CVs now that he's welded, but nowhere like he did when he was locked.  He'd do 3+ halfshafts in a days wheeling!  We both agreed that a ARB would prolly be the best for a non-trailer queen (his is trailered everywhere).

IMHO, my ARB has been worth every penny I spent on it.  I only wish I had the fund to install them in my Sam.  I think if you were able to have them in your rig, and wheel a while with them, you be like, "Wow, where have these things been all my life?".  I was.  Then again, I just bought a powerwasher and I wondered how I ever lived without it. (I'm 36)

Ive got to disagree with you here Yankee Tim. Everybodys got there preference but heres my opinion.

I dont like having to remember another thing I have to do before and after each hill. Plus leaks ect. Ive seen so many rigs that got a stick to tear the line off and now the are stuck with open diffs, or, Forget to engage before a nutz obstical and almost roll off of it because one wheel wasnt spinning. Ill pass. I run a "luncbox" locker in my front diff. I broke the pins in my front once but that was before I knew how to properly set it up and after 2 years of abuse. I replaced some $10 pins and am still running that locker almost a year later. :-/

My rear is a full carrier detroit replacement and I got to say that thing is sweet. I wish they made them for stock Trackick rear.

The fact that Kerry lunches less axles with a spool in the front truly defys logic. I think it has more to do with the fact that he drives better with more experience rather that switching to a spool.

Mike

Yeah, everything Yankee Tim said.  I've got two ARBs and wouldn't think of doing it different.

Too bad about the complexity of the air system, wish it was electric I suppose.  I dunno.  With the ARB system, I can inflate tires too.

Ripped the lines off?  Where'd they route the lines?!  Leaks?  Had mine on for a year and no problem.

Thanks!

Darrin,
Have you been to Tellico They are loooonnngggg hills I have seen many Heeps needing to disengage their ARB to make tight turns, and following (or leading) big Heeps I have to do alot of maneuvering where they drive 40's over obsticles

Hey Tim, thanks for "Picking my stuff apart" . Details is what I'm looking for. I dont make any modification decissions without getting as much info as possible. I had no Idea that you could engage it while moving. Everyone I have seen on the trails stop before engaging them Is it up to 60 with a neutral pedal, or can you stay on the gas while you are flipping the switch? If you could that would not be bad (hit some wheel spin, flip it, and keep going )But that would also cause ALOT of strain on the half shafts :-/. With the hills in Tennessee and the lack of traction on most of them, you would need to make like Scotty with the switches if you did not leave it locked in all of the time.

Mike, I also have never had much trouble out of the Lockers (Two broken pins, after shattering an inner stub)

Crow, I have seen the lines ran in many different places and most of the guys ripped out a line sooner or later. They also had trouble with the ARB line connections leeking. Any of the guys in the club that still use the ARB's have replaced all of the lines and connections with something different.

Thanks,
Zig

Is it up to 60 with a neutral pedal, or can you stay on the gas while you are flipping the switch? If you could that would not be bad (hit some wheel spin, flip it, and keep going )But that would also cause ALOT of strain on the half shafts :-/.

Crow, I have seen the lines ran in many different places
Thanks,
Zig

Just to see if it could do it, I locked my rear, going up hill, at over 75 mph.  No problem.  They do not recommend locking while a wheel is spinning.

I don't find turning it on or off to be a big deal.  Like I said, I turn it on long before I need it and leave in on for anything that may pose a challange.  This might be the entire trail.  It's only when I got a long run of simple stuff will I turn it off.  When I lock the front, that will be where I turn it on and off the most, sparing front end stress.  Remember, mine is a dual purpose rig, I trail it AND drive it home.

As for air lines and leakage, routing and protection are key.  Mine follows the top of the frame rail to the upper control arm of the 5-link.  It follows down the link to the axle and to the diff.  It is rather sheltered.  I've seen some guys use the s/s braided lines, and some have accually used steel lines.  Others have run the lines inside the links or inside a steel tube welded to the outside.  Very trick.  Again, it were electric, I'd be even happier.

Personally, I hate trails thru root-infested mudholes and trails where you ride over branches, and avoid them like the plague (but that's me).  I've taken out way too many brake hoses that way, which is worse than losing air locker pressure.

Each his own, I guess.  I know that eventually all my rigs will be selectable locking.  I just love it.

I know a bunch of guys who have upgraded the ARB lines to something else too.  I haven't had any leaks yet.  If I do I'll upgrade too, I guess.  It wouldn't make me change my mind about the ARB system though.

You can engage while moving at any speed.  The danger is if the left and right wheels aren't turning the same speed, so you can't hit the switch after you're stuck and throwing mud with two wheels.

Once you lock, if one wheel is loaded up and you hit the unlock, friction may hold the spline doohicky in.  So you crank the wheel, can't turn so you hit the unlock button.  Sometimes it will stick in the lock position.  Letting off the gas or backing up a foot will allow it to disengage.

engaging while spinning is a definite NO!!
quick way to lunch the gizmo in the locker.
and as long as both wheels are turning the
same speed it should engage fine.

AWESOME thread guys!  
We ditched the mini-spool due to axle and tire damage and have been saving pennies for the ARB.  Thanks for all of the great info!

~Nate

Yankee Tim mentioned switching to an ARB to save axel breakage. I am running a Detroit in the front,Lockrite rear 5.83's and a 4:1. I have thought about an ARB but dont know if I would like the manual operation, limited steering etc.
I realy like the auto locking lockers. I have never had an ARB but watching others with them I dont think I would like it :-/ With the Detroit, if I hit wheel spin, it locks. I dont get half way up a hill, start spinning, realize I need the locker, stop, lock it in , and then attempt to get started again in the middle of a hard obsticle.  I also like just letting off the gas a little bit to disengage the locker to turn, instead of stoping, unlocking, turning tight, and then re-locking.

Am I wrong in my impression in the ARB usage I have only seen them being used, and almost everyone in my club that has used them has ended up ditching them and replacing them with a detroit.

Zig

Dude, if you can afford an ARB locker, do it. Its so much better than a detroit locker its scary.

As for switching it on while your on a hill, you can avoid that problem by turning it on BEFORE you actually attempt to climb or decend something.

Remember, you have to be SMARTER than the hill.

A permanently locked diff stinks when driving around town and its actually dangerous in certain driving situations. Being able to flip a switch and lock your diff. is absolutely the way to go.

Dude, if you can afford an ARB locker, do it. Its so much better than a detroit locker its scary.

As for switching it on while your on a hill, you can avoid that problem by turning it on BEFORE you actually attempt to climb or decend something.

Remember, you have to be SMARTER than the hill.

A permanently locked diff stinks when driving around town and its actually dangerous in certain driving situations. Being able to flip a switch and lock your diff. is absolutely the way to go.

I can afford to get an ARB if I decide to do it . I just dont see the "bad driving" on the road :-/. I have been driving mine on road with an auto locker for 5-6 years now and it only bothered me for about the first week. A slight change in driving style on road stops the negative aspects of the auto locker.

As the hills are concerned, there is no "turn before you start the hill" on climbs around here. On some smaller short climbs you could do that but on most of the longer hills you can not. Hill climbs in Tennessee are 1/4 to 1/2 mile long with wash outs, dirt, and sections of boulders and rock that you have to maneuver without stopping, or your stuck and backing down. Most people around here are running Heeps and cab truck Hybrids with V8's auto lockers (or welds) in 2 1/2 ton running gear and 38's or bigger, so they can do the point and nail it technique. But then again I'm right with them on 90% of the trails  in my Kick on 33's, that I drove 3.5 hours to the trail instead of towing

I can afford to get an ARB if I decide to do it . I just dont see the "bad driving" on the road :-/. I have been driving mine on road with an auto locker for 5-6 years now and it only bothered me for about the first week. A slight change in driving style on road stops the negative aspects of the auto locker.

As the hills are concerned, there is no "turn before you start the hill" on climbs around here. On some smaller short climbs you could do that but on most of the longer hills you can not. Hill climbs in Tennessee are 1/4 to 1/2 mile long with wash outs, dirt, and sections of boulders and rock that you have to maneuver without stopping, or your stuck and backing down. Most people around here are running Heeps and cab truck Hybrids with V8's auto lockers (or welds) in 2 1/2 ton running gear and 38's or bigger, so they can do the point and nail it technique. But then again I'm right with them on 90% of the trails  in my Kick on 33's, that I drove 3.5 hours to the trail instead of towing

Fair enough   I guess its best to go with what is most comfortable for you.

In Colorado, we have a lot of off road stuff and most of it is done in the mountains (not the plains, which can occassionaly get mudy). My friend has a Cherokee 4x4 with ARBs on the front and rear differential. He only has a 3" Rancho lift with the adjustable 9000 series shocks, which are nice. He runs 4:10 gears. As for his wheels, they are stock, with 31x10.5s Goodrich AT tires (not the off road MTs)

Well, with those ARBs, we have gone up some serious, serious, stuff. Boulder fields that are at about 25-30 degree pitch. The only thing that allows this Cherokee to get up those types of climbs is the ARBs. Again, he is basically using a street tire on stock rims and his lift is nice, but nothing special. It all comes down to the locking differential, and the lower gears.

The thing about his Cherokee is that he uses it as his daily driver. He has about 150,000 miles on it right now. The ARBs, are the perfect set up because he can switch off the locking diff when he gets off the trail. Its super nice to be able to do that.

Beer,
I'm still considering them, mainly due to the point made about them 'staying locked' and not wratcheting (sp?) I could see the locker locking and unlocking cousing an impact hammer type effect on the axles and causing breakage. But for now I'm going to try to do a stronger half shaft and see if it fixes my problem.
Zig
P.S. Cool name