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No start (no click, no push start)....

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Offline Watts

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No start (no click, no push start)....
« on: September 28, 2011, 11:33:02 AM »
Hey guys, just got a new samurai, and this is my first post!  I come from the jeep world, i have a 4 door JK thats all worked up, but i keep tearing it up on tight trails, so the wifey said no more jeeping in that, buy something else.....so......

Yea, just picked up my new to me 87 sami, when i picked it up, i knew the starter didn't work, but it push start and ran just fine.  I took it home and have since been playing with it.  Last week, i replaced the starter, nothing.  And when i say nothing, i mean no click, no nothing, no change.  Actually, there's a small click coming from the carb somewhere???? but i dont know what that is.  Anyway, i put the old starter in and jumped the solenoid(small wire on solenoid to battery +)...by doing that, i got a click.  (yes, i've done the relay click fix mod)  So then i thought my battery was dead.  I hooked up the jumper cables and when i first hit the wire to the + on the battery, my fan moved and it tried to turn over, but after that, nothing.  No clicking, no nothing, just sparks from the connection.  So, i thought maybe it was bad battery connectors, replaced those and still the same thing.  Only now, with that done, i can't even push start it.  I tried a couple times last night.  So now i'm back to square 1, only it doesn't run at all now!!!!  You guys got any suggestions?  I need some help.  Tracing electrics isn't my thing, so if worse comes to worse, i'm just gonna take it to the shop and have someone else fix it, but it can't be that hard, right??

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Offline Watts

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 11:37:29 AM »
also forgot to add, the clutch switch has also been disconnected, but i have no idea where it's at, or i would reconnect it just to eliminate a problem, i looked by the clutch, didn't see it......have also checked all fuses that are under the dash, all seemed fine....

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Online fordem

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 01:08:08 PM »
You can't even push start it - what does that mean ?

Can you get the engine to turn over or is it frozen or jammed because the starter is meshed with the flywheel?

Remove the starter - tape up the connections and see it it'll push start.
Whilst you have the starter off - make sure that works outside of the vehicle - and then put it back on.

Oh - there is probably an antidiesel solenoid (also known as a fuel cut solenoid) on the carburettor - when you turn the ignition on it clicks and allows fuel to flow in the idle circuits.

Clutch safety switch - look under the dash above the the clutch pedal.

The important electrical bits - for the starter - are these...

Heavy cable from battery positive to starter solenoid
Heavy cable from battery negative to bellhousing
Smaller cable to spade terminal on starter solenoid - you can make a test jumper with a length of wire - connect on eend to the starter solenoid and touch the other to the battery posiitive - please make sure the transmission is in Neutral.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 01:12:08 PM by fordem »
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Offline Watts

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 01:22:28 PM »
When i say i can't push start it, i mean, it won't start if i let it roll down my driveway and let out the clutch.  IT did start this way before i switched the battery terminals.  It turns over fine, but seems like there is no spark.  I can smell fuel after i do it and it fails to start.

I did ground the big negative wire from the battery to the starter bolt, is this correct?  I didn't even notice where it was connected until i saw it laying there after i removed the starter the first time....i just assumed thats where it went!

I have tried to use a jumper wire, like you suggested, the starter does nothing.  Could it be the fuseable link?  My lights and everythign work, well, except the radio, but everything else works ok.

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Online fordem

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 05:37:08 PM »
If you wired the starter as I suggested and used a jumper wire from the starter solenoid to the battery positive and it didn't crank - either the battery or the starter is defective - you say the lights work, so that leaves the starter.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline Watts

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 05:40:24 AM »
Yes, i wired how you suggested, as i said, i had already tried that before.  Actually I got it all working last night.  Thought i'd add what i did so others might have a point of reference.

It ended up being a combination of 5 things!!! Yea, WTF?.... Bad Starter, dead battery, blown coil fuse, a bad connector at the starter and finally, a bad ignition switch.  So i started with the wiring, got it all tidied up, still nothing(even when hot wired).  So replaced the starter, still nothing.  Jumped the battery and hot wired the  new starter, ding ding! winner, starter works.  But, Sami wouldn't start.  No spark, so i replaced the Coil fuse in the fuse box up front and she fired right up!  Still haven't fixed the ignition switch, probably just gonna install a push button starter instead of trying to chase down that problem.  I don't know if it's in the switch or the clutch sensor or what. So i'm not gonna worry about it and just install a push button switch.  So, now i'm on to see if the battery is dead because it's bad, or the alternator isn't charging it.  Hopefully its one of the two or neither!  After i started it, i drove it around the block and adjusted the idle, turned it off and it wouldn't crank at all.  Would barely turn the headlights on.  i'm leaning towards bad battery, but, off to autozone this weekend to get that tested.  I'm just happy she fired back up and i have a direction now!  IT sucks when there's a problem and you have no idea where to start!

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 05:52:20 AM »
Glad you finally got it figured out.
I'd say what happened, when it failed to push start, is the coil fuse had popped.  Because none of the other problems should cause it not to push start.
Just driving it around the block generally won't be long enough to charge the battery.  So hopefully when you have it tested, they will say it just needs charged and doesn't have a bad cell, or short in it.
Oh, and the clutch switch is located near the top of the clutch pedal.  When you push in on the clutch it pushes in the switch and allows voltage to pass thorough it.  So if you want to investigate it, or replace it, that is where it is.
What people do to bypass it is simply disconnect the wires from the switch and connect the two wires together.
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Offline Watts

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 06:21:26 AM »
ohhh, i see, thanks bud.  I'll at least check out the switch to see if it's connected/bypassing.  Also found a switch on the middle of the dash, where the factory clock would go....i wonder if they(previous owner) switched the clutch switch?  I have no idea what else it would be for!!!!  I still love the truck tho, it's got great bones, just needs tidied up here and there and she'll be ready to go! I really hope i don't have to buy a battery/altenator!!!!

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 06:25:16 AM »
ohhh, i see, thanks bud.  I'll at least check out the switch to see if it's connected/bypassing.  Also found a switch on the middle of the dash, where the factory clock would go....i wonder if they(previous owner) switched the clutch switch?  I have no idea what else it would be for!!!!  I still love the truck tho, it's got great bones, just needs tidied up here and there and she'll be ready to go! I really hope i don't have to buy a battery/altenator!!!!

I would doubt the switch in the middle of the dash has anything to do with the starting circuit.
Tracker and Sidekick parts for sale.....PM me with your wants/needs.

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Offline Drone637

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Re: No start (no click, no push start)....
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 04:09:18 PM »
If you take apart your steering column you can get to the back side of your key switch, it should only be held in with a single screw.  You can then re-build the switch so the starter works properly again, provided that is the problem.  I have seen them just require a quick tear apart and sanding down of the contacts before.
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