This is a must do item for me so I figured I'd start up a thread as I go.   I'm currently in the Information gathering / planning stage.

I am looking to flip the Sidekick steering to the top of the knuckle and make it a solid respectable streetable unit.  This will require the steering tie rods, joints, tapers, and angles to be correct (or as close as possiable).  

TO begin I am researching the Tie Rod flip on Google.

THe results were much better then those on Pirate 4x4, But Pirate did have the entertaining Butt Picture thread.  Anyway,  Google shows the Tie rod Flip kit is available at:   http://www.ok4wd.com    
                     http://www.djmsuspension.com
                     http://www.rockcrawler.com
                     http://www.jamesduff.com
                     http://www.downeastoffroad.com
                     http://www.goferitoffroad.com

My thoughts are to research the different kits and applications (Jeep, Bronco / II, Chevy, Scout, ect) and find which one will most closly represent what we need by asking these questions.

 1. Are their any with the same Suzuki Sidekick taper?
 
 2. How is the taper measured?   (Metric / SAE) & what values?
 
 3. Are their any of these currently in use for IFS steering (Chevy, Bronco II)

 4. Can I adapt one of the current (Jeep, Chevy, Ford) flip kits and factory style tie rod to the stock Sidekick Center link and tie rod set up?

 5. Is a IFS tie rod designed to work at greater angles then a Solid axle one.

 6. Is their a Tie Rod Flip Kit in place for the Jeep Liberty
of other similar IFS vehicles?

 7. Can I mix Dana 30 and Chevy IFS parts, S-10 steering should be plenty compared to factory Kick.

    I have fabricated steering parts for my personal use on and off road for over 7 years.  Can I simply just build a Jeep tierod end that will bolt to the Suzuki Center link?  Can I modify Chevy / Jeep steering linkage to work as my Kick Centerlink and Tierods?
    It almost looks as though I can buy 4 of the press in & weld type inserts and install them in the Pitman Arm, Idler, and both Outer Knuckles.  Though I am still fascinated with the Ideia of a Chevy Moog idler arm (though the arm legnth may be to long / Idler and pitman should be equal legnth).  
    Starting from scratch gives us the unique opertunity to use extra Beefy components, But at what point are you just adding weight and wear.  When fabricating steering overbuilding with in reason is the standard.    

Listed below is a Screen shot of Goforitoffroad.com's Set.  I could buy and ship all 4 tapered inserts for Less then $70.



This is not an answer that will be found over night.   Heck I'm going to be on a Weeks vacation in a few days, so litttle may become of this for a week or two.  But I would soon like to make 33" and up tires on an IFS kick a reality that I can achieve safely.


I will not install this:



On This:

 The major problem with that theory with the Sidekick, is the steering angles MUST STAY THE SAME RATIO AND ANGLE AS THE LOER CONTROL ARMS AND CV AXLES. I'm not sure, but I think that we went through this already. You will cause unnecessary bumpsteer and shorten the life of the CVs tremendously.
The angular relation of all of the above is very critical!

But I would soon like to make 33" and up tires on an IFS kick a reality that I can achieve safely.

 I run 35" tires and feel very safe.  I can always understand wanting more strength, but I've wheeled mine for over a year now and the steering is no problem at all.
Brian

yea i have been wheeling mine for 2 years and the first year i didn't even have a idler arm brace.  works fine with vary little play.

stu

The major problem with that theory with the Sidekick, is the steering angles MUST STAY THE SAME RATIO AND ANGLE AS THE LOER CONTROL ARMS AND CV AXLES. I'm not sure, but I think that we went through this already. You will cause unnecessary bumpsteer and shorten the life of the CVs tremendously.
The angular relation of all of the above is very critical!

Thanks  IdahoLWB,   I understand that the angular relation was the reason Mike H dropped his lowers to match his steering.  I sorta screwd my self on the 4dr  in that now I need to drop my steering 4".  but I will try not to make the same mistake on the 2dr.  The 4-door steering will get redone too, but as you mentioned their are big hurdles that must be overcome.  

Big Bad Brian,
 
 1. What type lift are you running?

 2. Did you drop your A-arms and housing?  

 3. What does your steeering look like?

    I know their are quite a few people running 35's.  I'm headded that direction but am snagged on the steering.  I feel like a flip is the answer, especially when dropping the arms and housing.  The Cal-Mini 3" suspension which everyone seems to base 35's off of, is out of my price range.    

1bigtracker,  I know I know...  3" body and lots O sheetmetal mods.  But if you could lift your suspension 4" - 6"  on top of what you already have then 35"s  would fit like a glove, and maybe one day go wheel Moab with one of these...  http://www.kielbassa.com/pictures/pic3.jpg

1bigtracker,  I know I know...  3" body and lots O sheetmetal mods.  But if you could lift your suspension 4" - 6"  on top of what you already have then 35"s  would fit like a glove, and maybe one day go wheel Moab with one of these...  http://www.kielbassa.com/pictures/pic3.jpg

For Moab I wouldn't put to much worry in having the biggest tire you can fit. Remember, my hero, Chunk goes just about everywhere Mikey and I go on worn out (race lightened) 31 inch radial swampers. In some places he goes farther.

Just a thought...

-Eric

1bigtracker,  I know I know...  3" body and lots O sheetmetal mods.  But if you could lift your suspension 4" - 6"  on top of what you already have then 35"s  would fit like a glove, and maybe one day go wheel Moab with one of these...  http://www.kielbassa.com/pictures/pic3.jpg

going from my 34's to 35s dosn't seem like a big change but it would be for me.
1. i'm running out of gear- lower gears 600 bucks
2. not enought clearance- 3in calmini lift 900 bucks
3. wheels and tires i want- 35/10.50R15 Boggers on 15X8 AR-23's about 1180 bucks shiped
4. front and rear end breakage- 9in in the rear, all steel up front with lockers 2000 bucks(guess)

thats why i'm not going any bigger for now.  but i still think if i had lower gears some where in the drivetrain then i would have a hell of a time Moab.

stu

Have you thought of drilling straight through and adding a heim joint on top?

Since you have capabilities to mod steering, fab you own tie rod shafts to match the heims.

I've thought about it but i'm not a Heim joint fan.   I can get the factory style stuff for cheap or free.  I'm not adding that much travel, just dropping the current design. and need to correct the steering with a similar drop.  

would a johnny joint work better?

stu

Actually Jonny or Heim joint, I have read of them both but I have no experience with either.  I'm sure that they are nice for some applications but I am not sure that they are worth they extra $$$ in this application.  A stright drill and bolt of the arm might be easier but I'm not sure how the factors of wear and stress would play out on those style joints.  I'd prefer to use standard design automotive stuff.  

    It is amazing how much force the stock stuff will take.  I've walked around the U-pull it looking at crashed cars and seen wheels broken off (Steel and Aluminium) with the steering still intact.  I know that the Rock crawling competition is build better stuff all the time for extreme aplications but I feel that if I can modify the stock steering for a common place / widely available alternative tie rod application I might be better off.      

 Why not save yourself some dough and get bigger and better results at the same time...go SAS and kicker3 and get it over with. That way the gearing, steering, and wheeltravel are all taken care of.
Front axle.....$1200
Kicker3...........$600
Sammy case...$250, or less



Just a thought, it works very well, you just need to figure out the suspension to go with. I'm soon to be starting on a 95 4 door kick getting a 2.5 v6 with a 4 speed auto and dual t-cases with 4.88s and a SAS conversion on 33s with no body lift. I will be documenting the whole thing on here.
Hope it gives you an idea for the height.

Why not save yourself some dough and get bigger and better results at the same time...go SAS and kicker3 and get it over with. That way the gearing, steering, and wheeltravel are all taken care of.
Front axle.....$1200
Kicker3...........$600
Sammy case...$250, or less



Just a thought, it works very well, you just need to figure out the suspension to go with. I'm soon to be starting on a 95 4 door kick getting a 2.5 v6 with a 4 speed auto and dual t-cases with 4.88s and a SAS conversion on 33s with no body lift. I will be documenting the whole thing on here.
Hope it gives you an idea for the height.

Thanks IdahoLWB    I'll be following right along.  I have all but the Kicker 3 here ready to go, (Narrow track D-44 front with the machine work done to the center section for re-locating the spring over perch, And a set of leaf springs Front YJ's, Rear XJ's or Rear Taco's with a Trail Tough Missing Link combo).  I could place the D-44 in a kick in short time.  I also saw a 91 Range Rover in the U-pull it the other day.  Nice little radius arm & coil set up.   I have a few sets of 85 Toyota axles at the house as well.  But I'm still having fun playing wiht the IFS.  I have a 78 F-150 4wd, Sammy's, and a 83 Yota that are solid axle...   Not saying I will not go solid axle conversion, Building the IFS just seems to be different & the road less traveled.      

I've thought about it but i'm not a Heim joint fan.   I can get the factory style stuff for cheap or free.  I'm not adding that much travel, just dropping the current design. and need to correct the steering with a similar drop.  

Since the knuckle rotates on the cup of the strut, and this is held in with 2 bolts, fab a bracket that secures to these bolts and the original knuckle hole. Then place your tie rod end in a location on top of that bracket.
Sort of like how the big boys use the D44 flat top knuckles or the D60 kingpin design with the raised steering.

Why not save yourself some dough and get bigger and better results at the same time...go SAS and kicker3 and get it over with. That way the gearing, steering, and wheeltravel are all taken care of.
Front axle.....$1200
Kicker3...........$600
Sammy case...$250, or less

Just a thought, it works very well, you just need to figure out the suspension to go with. I'm soon to be starting on a 95 4 door kick getting a 2.5 v6 with a 4 speed auto and dual t-cases with 4.88s and a SAS conversion on 33s with no body lift. I will be documenting the whole thing on here.
Hope it gives you an idea for the height.

Cool, looking forward to your work. I suppose it'll be close to what Heather has, since you influence that build also.