Oh, what a morning.  Started our 2001 GV to take Mom to work (no problem at all), shut off after a few minutes to restart when my tardy wife was ready.  Oh, crap, weird stuff with no start.  She got ride from other.  I started to look at the trucklet.

SO, history and such:  2001 GV auto, H25, 160K+ miles, K&N air filter, BFG AT KO's 215/70/16, Magnaflow secondary cat and muffler with 2.25 inch pipe.  New KYB stock struts and shocks.

Ever since purchase, brake light has stayed on, altho' at a lower intensity, with brake released.  Discovered that was in the ignition switch.  A little wiggle of the key counterclockwise extinguished the light.  No brake or electrical problem at this point.

Cupl weeks ago, no start.  Clean terminals, fill battery, and charge.  All ok after that, ...until

SO, I check battery charge, terminals, etc., all the simple stuff.  All is ok.  Hook back up and now I have nothing.  I get the buzzer when key inserted, but turn to on or start and no juice at all.  I was getting a flickering in the backlight of the stereo (Oh, that was a new installation a few months ago.)

I am getting NO electrical action when I turn the key.

Suggestions needed soonest as is daily driver.

Ignition switch?  Starting interlock?  Cannot even turn key to on and shift from Park to neutral (yes, I depressed the brake pedal).  A ground problem?  I am at a loss here so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Pat

NO electrical action says a flat/dead battery or a poor or broken connection somewhere - and - yes a bad ground connection can do that - as a matter of fact - I saw these exact symptoms on my wife's Lancer a couple of weeks back and it was the battery ground connection.

How are you checking the battery charge - do you have a volt meter?

1) Turn the headlights on - and check to see if they are on?
2) Turn the ignition on, do the dash warning lights come on, are the headlights still on?
3) Assuming a YES answer to 2 - try to crank the engine whilst watching the dash lights and the headlights?

If the anwser to question 1 is NO - you have a battery or battery related problem.
If for question 2, the headlights stay on but the dash lights don't come on - your problem is in the ignition switch and related area - if the headlights go off, your problem is again battery related.
If for question 3 the engine does not crank but the lights stay on, the problem is in the starter or starter circuits - if the dash & headlights go off - battery related.

I am VERY aware that ground issues can do strange things, and I include short to ground.

Meter shows good 12 volts.

No headlites, but with lite switch on, I am getting what sounds like a CD changer noise, a steady low pitched RRRRRRRRR.

I have no dash warning lights.  When ignition turned to on position, temp gage goes up, but no other action.

Based on your commentary, fordem, this seems to point to battery and ground issues.  I do get good loud warning beeps if door open with key in ignition and off, but slows and gets weaker when key to acc or on.

I get not so much as a solenoid click.

Perhaps a sopplemntal ground wire from neg post would allow me to troubleshoot the ground issue?  If works, then ground problem, if no, then probably other issues (but still could have ground problem).

I hate to R&R the battery without needing one.  And it did start very nicely at first this am.  It ran at idle for about 5=7 minutes.  What happened in that time?  And hate to go to these alleged pros who charge to talk to you.

Next door neighbor is (gasp) Ford gearhead.  Maybe he has ideas. 

I appreciate ALL input.

Short to ground in stereo hook-up???  It was not operating this morning, as in not activated by me.

Pat












 

OK - we have test instruments - nice!!

First test - volt meter probes directly on the battery post (not the lug), headlights off and then on - should give you a little over 12V, with the lights on it should be a little less, but still over 12V - anything lower and you have a dead/flat battery.

Assuming the battery is good - move the positive voltmeter probe to the lug and repeat - the results should be similar - anything less than 12V points to a bad connection between the positive battery post and the lug.

Assuming you have a good connection on the positive side - leave the negative voltmeter probe on the battery post and connect the positive probe to the chassis or body of the vehicle - this time lights on or off, you're looking for a very small voltage, almost zero - anything over say a half a volt is a bad connection on the battery ground side - either where the ground lead connects to the chassis or body or at the other end where it connects to battery.

Assuming you have gotten this far and you haven't located a problem - you've most likely got a wiring fault in the battery positive line.  It comes off the battery and goes to a fuse panel under the hood - disconnect the battery (negative first) and then unbolt that fuse panel and turn it over so you can see the underside - find the 80A fuse and check the connections to it - I'm suspecting loose, overheated & charred.

well then, I will work on this and report.  Thanks for the advice.  Hope to H it ain't the underside of the fuse box.  All fuses are good from the top side by quick visual.  OTOH, that would explain all the weirdness, and why I get no headlites even tho' meter shows 12+ post to post.  Would a problem with the pos side wiring under the fuse box keep the juice from the lite circuit?  Anyway, will be working on it.  WIfe's 40th HS reunion is this Sat and 200 miles away.

Pat

Maybe have a look at the main relay. It is located next to the ecm and has a twin that is used to switch the fuel pump. It may not be working (the rrrrrrr sound). A quick swap with the fuel pump relay will let you know (by things lighting up... still won't start without both relays working) if it is good or not.

...and like Fordem says, the underside of the main fuse block assembly (engine bay next to battery) can get coorosion and cause problems. Look underneath the fuses where the wires plug in.

Hope that helps...

-Eric

A defective main relay should not prevent the lights from coming on - but a bad battery or bad connections on either the main ground (battery to chassis) or main positive feed (battery to main relay) will affect the lights and all other circuits.

  :'(   bottom line: BATTERY (new 26R)

Backstory: last nite, meter had good voltage thru the tree to neg post to connection of pos cable to fuse buss. Fuses all good.
Meter also had slight voltage neg post to other ground.  I hate that!
Better half and I decide battery is old, anyway, so replace and then have a gander at the underside of the fuse box.

Got out the aft phillips screw to remove the fuse box and have a look, but there is/was apparently a plastic clip on hte outboard side that I was afraid to screw with as it is probably very brittle.  Removing fuse cover gives visual access to end of pos cable at fuse buss.  I also pulled out the relays inboard of the fuse box,  They are the black rubber covered things and they just slip off their mounts vertically.  Got a really good look at the underside of the fuse box and the wiring around there.  ALl was in excellent condition, esp for this hi mileage.

Tied down and connected new battery, and, ...voila!!! All is as before.  Now I can replace plugs, PCV valve, and fuel filter.

Having 12 volts dc does not always mean any amperage available, eh!?  And batteries are weird. 

Still, cars are easier than F-4B's and J's.  Com/nav/ecm/electric

Thanks for all the input.

Pat

My battery lessons learned:

1. Always LOAD test a battery (auto parts places will do for free), in or OUT of the vehicle, to determine it's charge state.

2. When a battery is at or near it's 5 year mark, replace it. Sooner in extreme hot or cold climates, or as a result of impact shock (accident or frequent off-roading).

3. Batteries often don't go out slowly. An individual cell PLATE shorts out and then you have essentially nothing as far as amperage capability. BUT you'll often see proper voltage with just a VOLT meter.

4. Your battery will always die at the worst possible time or place.  

Having 12 volts dc does not always mean any amperage available, eh!?

That's why I said test with the lights first off and then on - if as you say, you weren't getting the lights, just a rattle or buzz from the #1 headlight relay - that would have shown as less than 12V on a meter across the battery posts, with the light switch on.

With experience, you can tell fairly accurately if a battery has failed by looking at the open circuit (no load) voltage and the voltage under load, you can also tell if the battery is flat (good but needs charging) or dead (will not accept a charge) from the voltage changes under load and directly when the load is removed.

One of the responsibilities of my job is UPS power - I handle from 6kVA upto 160kVA (think 1kVA as being able to handle 3~4 average desktop computers) - the biggest unit under my care has 5 tons in batteries, 120 x 12V batteries in 3 parallel strings for 480Volts DC - lethal.

But - you're right having 12V does not always mean that it can deliver the required amperage.

By the way Max - a shorted cell will drop the open circuit voltage to 10V, but the battery will still deliver cranking amps - which is a trick we used to do with the older carburetted cars - if you had a battery with one bad cell (open circuit) we would short that cell out with heavy wire and drive - it probably wouldn't work on today's fuel injected cars, which are a lot more sensitive to battery voltage.

My BAttery Died just recently too due to weather temps changing.....died on the way to work...my altenator started to wine loudly (meaning the altenator was doing all the electrical work) changed battery Right away.....hope my altenator did not suffer from that......battery was reading 5 volts......since winter is coming i Decided to put in a larger battery with more cranking power should help those cold winter mornings