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Tracker alignment and steering

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Offline djlantis57

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Tracker alignment and steering
« on: July 29, 2009, 12:13:10 AM »
I've searched the forum, found plenty of info on this.  But the problem with those posts is they are old, and they give me ideas on what to do, but nobody ever follows up on what ended up working out for them.
Got a 1990 Geo Tracker, 2dr.  Installed Calmini 3" suspension kit.  Added weight: Trail Tough tube bumper, will be using a winch on the front as wellHave not driven it at all, have not broken in the springs yet, etc.  Took it to the alignment shop today...
The mechanic there called me and told me from what it looks like, there is no way for him to correct the camber.  He got the toe-in adjusted right, but the camber is way off.  He wanted to know if there is ANYTHING that was included with the kit that accidentally got left out.  I explained that's how it is, but I am still calling Calmini in the morning for their input on what experience they have with the kit.  
I did a lot of research before buying this kit, and if EVERYONE else can do it, then mine shouldn't be a problem, either.  He said camber bolts and elongating the strut holes are the only adjustment possible, but he stated that there's not enough strut there for him grind out that much to correct the camber angle; it's too far off.  
What has worked for other people in this situation?  My family has gone to this shop for years, we trust them very much on a personal basis, so that is not an issue.  But I also am considering taking it elsewhere for a second opinion.
Do the camber bolts actually work enough for this amount of camber adjustment needed?
Also, instead of getting the alignment 100% corrected right now, should I get it more "drivable" first, to allow the springs to settle, before doing a "fine-tuning" alignment after the nest 1,000 miles or so?  Even mounting the winch for day-to-day driving would help a lot, I knor that, and as or the rear, a small trailer would help that break-in, too.
I hope you guys can help me out here, someone's gotta have had this problem before.  
Here is the latest picture of how my alignment looked before taking it in to the ship...
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 05:30:15 PM by djlantis57 »
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things.  Right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
90 Tracker LSi 2dr tintop 5spd: slow toy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 08 Pontiac G8 GT: fast toy
90 Tracker LSi 2dr 5spd: SOLD.......95 Tracker 2dr 5spd: parts..........90 Sidekick JX 5spd: HI, my name's DJ and I have an addiction.........93 Tracker 2dr 2wd 5spd: PS donor/poss. 4x4 swap from 95 parts

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2009, 05:07:27 AM »
You need to break in those coills before you do anything else. Take it out to your favorite wheeling spot, and drive the snot out of it. Jump it even, that's what some others have said. With all that positive camber, they will eventually settle in. Then there's always the camber bolts, available almost everywhere. Those, combined with probably a bit of slotting of the strut holes will get you back in line. The only problem is, if you get it all lined up now, you'll just have to do it again once the coils settle.
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Offline hegemon

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2009, 06:40:59 AM »
I agree with Bentparts, I believe the calmini control arms account for the camber, and the springs just need to get broken in.  I'd also get the winch mounted too, the added weight will help speed up the breakin process for the springs.

As for camber bolts I was able to correct my camber from a 2" spacer lift using them.  I only needed them on the top mount.  I haven't had the need to try it, but I believe you can use camber bolts in the top and bottom mount positions.

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Offline bzzr2

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2009, 07:02:46 AM »
as mentioned break the springs in a bit but you will still require an alignment after..  i recently just installed new struts and extensions on mine, on my previous struts only the bottom holes were slotted, on the new struts we had to slot lower and upper holes to line things up, this is with no difference in the amount of lift.  take a little off towards the outside on the bottom and a little off the inside of the top holes when you have had a chance to put a few miles on the springs and you'll line right up. 
03-ZR2, 2dr, 31x10.5 SSR's & stuff...--sold :-(
03 xl7, jeff's 2inch spacer lift, 225/75/16's; sold
09 taco reg cab short box 4x4

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Offline djlantis57

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2009, 08:41:19 AM »
I read a ton of posts on here last night, and they confirmed what I was thinking I would have to do.  Calmini also recommended the same thing:  get it just drivable, and go out and break it in, get those springs to settle.  So I'm gonna go pick it up today and get some miles logged on it.  I'm stiill using my old tires, after all, so I don't mind the tire wear on these.
Calmini also said the backspacing can affect wheel alignment???  The rims I bought it with are 15x7, I think they are 3.75" backspacing.  Is this a problem?  Calmini said 3-3.5" is recommended for the kit.  I want to buy some 15x8, 3.75" BS, but don't want to buy them if this is a problem.
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things.  Right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
90 Tracker LSi 2dr tintop 5spd: slow toy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 08 Pontiac G8 GT: fast toy
90 Tracker LSi 2dr 5spd: SOLD.......95 Tracker 2dr 5spd: parts..........90 Sidekick JX 5spd: HI, my name's DJ and I have an addiction.........93 Tracker 2dr 2wd 5spd: PS donor/poss. 4x4 swap from 95 parts

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Offline Armour

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2009, 09:14:12 PM »
Wheel backspacing should not affect the alignment!
89 Sidekick. 33's.  Lincoln Locker,4.24 T Case, 5.13 gears. Warn M8000 winch.
96 Tracker. 39.5's Locked 44's front and rear, 6.5 t case, 4.10 gears.

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Offline 95Gstman

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2009, 09:36:33 PM »
I kind of disagree that wheel backspacing does not affect camber. The wider and less backspacing you have will act as more leverage on the a arm causing the springs to compress a little more at rest, thus changing your camber.

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Offline djlantis57

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 01:39:01 AM »
I kind of disagree that wheel backspacing does not affect camber. The wider and less backspacing you have will act as more leverage on the a arm causing the springs to compress a little more at rest, thus changing your camber.
That makes perfect sense.  More leverage.
Well I'm gonna be driving the hell out of it tomorrow. 
When I do align it, though, the alignment shop said I don't need camber bolts, but to just slot the holes and tighten the bolt.  What is safer/more durable, slotting the holes, or using a camber bolt?  I have seen several Suzuki sites that carry camber bolts, but my alignment shop said their distributor can't get some for the Tracker. 
Do you do both, or just slot the holes and use a regular bolt?  My prediction is that it would "slide" in the slotted hole, no matter how tight the bolt is, if I put too much leverage on it.  What is the advantage of camber bolts?
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things.  Right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
90 Tracker LSi 2dr tintop 5spd: slow toy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 08 Pontiac G8 GT: fast toy
90 Tracker LSi 2dr 5spd: SOLD.......95 Tracker 2dr 5spd: parts..........90 Sidekick JX 5spd: HI, my name's DJ and I have an addiction.........93 Tracker 2dr 2wd 5spd: PS donor/poss. 4x4 swap from 95 parts

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Offline Jeremiah

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 02:25:02 AM »
What is safer/more durable, slotting the holes, or using a camber bolt?
Slotting, and tac welding on a washer to hold the bolt in place. Camber bolts aren't a full bolt - they're smaller, and have a cam (which is what adjusts the camber). Smaller = weaker. If you just slot and install the bolt, it can come loose enough to move about... which causes alarming steering stability issues. If you slot (for adjustment) the hole, and then tack weld in a washer (to keep the bolt from moving), it'll be as stable as can be.

PS - this thread is more proof the Calmini kit is over complicated, and doesn't work as well as advertised. It's a good kit - but for the money - I'd go OME [end pimping ARB product].
'96 4 door kick: 29" Pep-Boys M/T, 1.5" OME
'83 SJ410: 31" Toyo M/T, SPOA, 1.3L
'08 Yamaha FZ6

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Offline djlantis57

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 12:21:31 PM »
That was my worry, that no matter how tight the bolt is, enough leverage could cause it to slide in the slot.  I'll be sure to mention to the shop a small tac weld just to hold the washer in place, at least give it a fighting chance against coming loose. 
Got it today, the thing drives like a dream compared to the old springs, I like the ride, and it's not too stiff at all (I heard a lot of complaints from 2dr owners with Calmini being too stiff...this feels great)!  They did no camber adjustment whatsoever, but just by fixing the toe-in, the camber looks twice as good.  The car feels great, handles good (even with a huge positive camber)
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things.  Right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
90 Tracker LSi 2dr tintop 5spd: slow toy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 08 Pontiac G8 GT: fast toy
90 Tracker LSi 2dr 5spd: SOLD.......95 Tracker 2dr 5spd: parts..........90 Sidekick JX 5spd: HI, my name's DJ and I have an addiction.........93 Tracker 2dr 2wd 5spd: PS donor/poss. 4x4 swap from 95 parts

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Offline djlantis57

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Re: Tracker alignment and steering
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 05:31:30 PM »
What about the center link?  Another mechanic told me the alignment shop was just trying to charge me for something that probably isn't even worn out, that the center link does not really wear out.  Has anyone else had a "worn out" center steering link?
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things.  Right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
90 Tracker LSi 2dr tintop 5spd: slow toy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 08 Pontiac G8 GT: fast toy
90 Tracker LSi 2dr 5spd: SOLD.......95 Tracker 2dr 5spd: parts..........90 Sidekick JX 5spd: HI, my name's DJ and I have an addiction.........93 Tracker 2dr 2wd 5spd: PS donor/poss. 4x4 swap from 95 parts

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Offline crikeymike

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 07:21:30 PM »
That was my worry, that no matter how tight the bolt is, enough leverage could cause it to slide in the slot.  I'll be sure to mention to the shop a small tac weld just to hold the washer in place, at least give it a fighting chance against coming loose. 

Some personal experience:

I've been running with slotted upper strut holes for almost 4 years, and they only came loose once.  I've known all this time that I should tack weld a washer into place, but I've never had a problem with it.  For as tight as I get it, I'm surprised I never broke the bolt.

They came loose once, which was just after I first did it.  I cranked it down a lot tighter and have had it apart and back together a few times, but with no problems.

I completely agree with the statements above.  If you can slot one or both holes, then get the large full-size bolts nice and tight, it should be stronger than camber bolts, and fix the problem completely at the same time.

Also, FYI, OME front struts have a relocated upper hole to start with, which adjusts for the 1.5" (approx) of lift on the front.  I figure I'll throw that into this thread since there's a lot of good hard info in here.
1993 4-door Sidekick
3" hybrid Calmini/OME lift, 2" B/L, Rear air locker
Shrockworks bar & sliders, Full skid plates
4.24:1 t-case
 WAZUKS member - visit http://www.wazuks.com

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Offline crikeymike

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Re: Tracker alignment and steering
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2009, 07:23:57 PM »
What about the center link?  Another mechanic told me the alignment shop was just trying to charge me for something that probably isn't even worn out, that the center link does not really wear out.  Has anyone else had a "worn out" center steering link?

Nope, never seen them go "bad", just the tie rod ends and the idler arm can get warn out or bent.  There are a few places that sell "idler arm braces" to stop the original mount/idler arm from bending under heavy stress (big tires, aired down, power steering, turning on hard ground).
1993 4-door Sidekick
3" hybrid Calmini/OME lift, 2" B/L, Rear air locker
Shrockworks bar & sliders, Full skid plates
4.24:1 t-case
 WAZUKS member - visit http://www.wazuks.com

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Offline Jeremiah

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Re: Tracker alignment: problems
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2009, 06:34:56 PM »
That was my worry, that no matter how tight the bolt is, enough leverage could cause it to slide in the slot

Mine only came loose once... after some insanely stupid high jumps in the dunes. The kind that I thought "damn - I know SOMETHING had to break on that landing..." It was a 2 min trail fix, and all was well.
'96 4 door kick: 29" Pep-Boys M/T, 1.5" OME
'83 SJ410: 31" Toyo M/T, SPOA, 1.3L
'08 Yamaha FZ6

Re: Tracker alignment and steering
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2009, 11:36:07 AM »
I'd like to hear some additional comments on whether or not backspacing and tire size affects alignment. Basically, I need to put the stock wheels and tires back onto my rig to get it to pass inspection and was wanting to get it aligned. Last time I took it to get aligned they told me they wouldn't do it because the entire front end was worn out and had play... which isn't true. I have had problems with it coming out of toe. I have a 2" jeff's spacer kit in with a 2" body lift with 31" tires on some old jeep wheels. I would be curious to know if I had it aligned with the stockers, would it translate? I wouldn't think so... ???