ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: CoastMtns on March 28, 2019, 09:04:37 PM
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Hey all, been checking out this forum for a bit getting info and ideas for our 2003 Chevy Tracker. Thanks for all the great info on here. We use our Tracker here in BC to get up FSRs for hiking,mountaineering and backpacking in the Coast Mountains. Everything stock except a skidplate on front.
My newbie question - it appears that minimum ground clearance is 8 inches, but on our Tracker, we've got only about 7 inches at the rear diff. Any thoughts on what might be causing this? I have heard that coils could be sagging to cause the decease in clearance, or perhaps the shocks.
Would love to get that extra inch of clearance back. Also looking at the 2 inch budget suspension lift from AE.
Thanks for any tips/recommendations/insights!
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First - where are you getting the 8" clearance specification from?
Second - where are you measuring? You say "about 7 inches at the rear diff" - if you're measuring the clearance from the diff pumpkin to the ground beneath, that clearance is determined by wheel/tire size and is not affected by suspension modifications.
Third - why do you want to lift?
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Thanks for taking the time to respond Fordem. Much appreciated.
1. The min 8" ground clearance spec was from all the info I can dig up online from a variety of sources for the 2003 Tracker.
2. Measuring from bottom of rear diff to ground. If the 8" min clearance spec is true, wouldn't it be from the lowest point ie. diff? I've only got 7" at this point.
3. After spending 2 years exploring FSR roads and slowly learning basic off-roading skills, I am still banging around/scraping on steeper waterbars, and the more gnarly creekbed roads that are taking us to trailheads. Would like a bit more leeway if possible!
Thanks eh!
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One of the problems with "internet based" research is that not all of the information you'll find is accurate - I don't recall ever seeing an official published spec for ground clearance, but having said that, for some reason the figure 7 inches sounds about right to me, 8 inches is more than I expect
Regarding the rear diff to ground clearance, that may not be the lowest point on the vehicle, but, like I said earlier, that is dictated by the wheel/tire size, so you can check the tire placard in the driver's door jamb, and once you're running the OEM size tires at the recommended pressure, whatever you measure is what it is, unless someone has replaced the rear axle with a different, non OEM one, which I think is unlikely - it's not impossible, but, since the front & rear axle ratios have to be matched, it's not a trivial modification. Switching to a taller tire will increase the clearance here, but be aware that anything larger than about 29" will probably rub on the frame at full lock - my tires are 235/70R16 (a hair less than 29") on OEM alloy rims (I have a 98 Grand Vitara), minimal trimming of the plastic wheel arch liner was required behind the front bumper, and on full lock they will just "polish" the frame toward the back of the wheel arch. OEM tires, at least for the GV are a 27", so these do give me roughly an inch more under the differential.
Regarding lifts, a two inch lift is about as much as you can (or should) consider - more than that will typically put the front CV axles at risk, unless you drop the front diff to compensate, and can cause camber issues - if you feel the need to go taller, you'll need a lift kit that deals with these issues, and yes, Altered Ego makes one.
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Yeah I hear you about the merits of online research :D Never know what you will find eh...
I was able to locate what looks to be an official release from GM on the 2003 Tracker that states the min 8.0" clearance here:
https://media.gm.com/dam/Media/documents/CA/Archives/EN/Vehicles/chevy_truck/2003Tracker.html
What I am trying to figure out is if I can regain that 1 inch clearance just by replacing springs if they are sagging.
Thanks for the info on the tires you are using Fordem, that's really helpful. We are running 215/75/15, but are looking at 225 or 235s potentially. Thanks again for the help!
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That is an interesting document - unfortunately, it does not specify where the ground clearance measurement was made.
As I've mentioned before, the clearance under the diff pumpkin is dictated by wheel/tire size, OEM tire size was 205/75R15 which works out to a 27" and you're running 215/75R15 which is just a smidgen larger, so you'll have something like a quarter inch more clearance under the diff pumpkin, the springs at the rear sit between the axle and the frame, so if they are sagging, the frame & body will be closer to the axle, rather than the axle being closer to the ground.
Regarding tire size, a 225/75R15 calculates out to a little over 28" (28.3) and a 235/75R15 is a hair under 29" (28.9), however, you'll need to look at rim width - your spec sheet shows a 15x5.5 steel rim, or 15x6 alloy rims, both of which are on the narrow side - find a spec sheet for your choice of tire and see what rim width's the tire manufacturer allows before purchasing.
One last thing - oversized tires affect performance, both acceleration (because the increase in diameter impacts the gearing) & braking (because of the increase in rotating weight), I've had no issues in either area, but my car, which is an African market model, (I have a 2.0 engine with 5 speed transmission) is not identical to yours, both the axle ratios and the brakes are different, in the better sense of the word, so your experience may be different.
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I would get over the 8" or 7" clearance you may or may not have. Work on increasing the clearance and not get caught up on the actual number.
I have a 2002 Tracker 4 dr 2.0 5 spd. I started with 215/70-15 tires. I pondered my ups size with tires (look at the 'New here scored a tracker' and the '215/75-15 vs 225/75-15 tires') on two different threads. I went with the 225/75-15 tires - they fit with stock height and I lose minimal power. I then added a 2" spring spacer lift. (and yes I have a positive camber issue - hoping my springs settle). The 225's look right in the fenderwells.
Activity is small on this site, so... give my threads a look over - I hope they help. My usage will be much as yours, plus our Tracker will get towed by a RV.
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- find a spec sheet for your choice of tire and see what rim width's the tire manufacturer allows before purchasing.
Awesome Fordem, this is something I had no clue about, and it has steered me in the right direction. Funnily enough, I would like to get 225/75/15s on there, but it doesn't seem the BFG T/A K02 or Grabber make them in that size - I am looking for some all terrain tires. Currently have the old version of K02s and they rock! All of the rest of this info if super helpful too, especially the info on the springs technical set up.
Ditto OldBlue, thanks for the tips as well! I will check out the threads you mentioned; it is good to hear that 225s fit stock. Which lift kit did you go for? What type of 4x4 roads are you accessing?
Thanks guys, you rawk!
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(and yes I have a positive camber issue - hoping my springs settle).
If you haven't fitted camber bolts yet, I suggest you get a pair, if you have one pair and you still have positive camber, try a second pair in the bottom holes - you say you have a spring spacer lift, which would translate into original springs with spacers - the springs aren't going to settle any more than they have in the last sixteen years.
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If you haven't fitted camber bolts yet, I suggest you get a pair, if you have one pair and you still have positive camber, try a second pair in the bottom holes - you say you have a spring spacer lift, which would translate into original springs with spacers - the springs aren't going to settle any more than they have in the last sixteen years.
I have the first set of camber bolts and also second set of camber bolts in the bottom holes - it gained me a little but not enough.
The stock springs will settle into the spacers & seats if they are not seated on the money.
I measured my rear diff clearance on smooth concrete with my 225/75-15 |removethispart|@ 28 psi tires - 8 1/4". Diff clearance is based off of tire size.
My kit is LowRange Offroad and my usage will be fire roads, or roads that go to lookouts. Maybe a beach or two. Possible washed out desert roads too. Or any other undulation.
Lifting a tire is not in my plans!
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My kit is LowRange Offroad and my usage will be fire roads, or roads that go to lookouts. Maybe a beach or two. Possible washed out desert roads too. Or any other undulation.
Lifting a tire is not in my plans!
Rad - I checked out pics of your Tracker and the related posts -helpful indeed! Did you go for this Low Range lift: http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/basic-and-complete-2-inch-spacer-budget-lift-kits.html (http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/basic-and-complete-2-inch-spacer-budget-lift-kits.html)
Do you find that the quality of the ride is noticeably more jarring than pre-lift? How about the stability? At Fordem's recommendation, I think a 2" is all I will do as well. Looking at the 2" altered ego one here: http://www.alteredegomotorsports.com/tracker-suspension.html (http://www.alteredegomotorsports.com/tracker-suspension.html)
As a newbie, I am totally in the dark about the different type of lifts + effects of installation on ride quality. Most of the time we are bombing up Hwy 99 to FSRs, so 90% is hwy, the other 10% is offroad.
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Coast I used this kit, slightly different from the kit you linked.
http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/suspension/basic-and-complete-2-inch-spacer-budget-lift-kits.html (http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/suspension/basic-and-complete-2-inch-spacer-budget-lift-kits.html)
I did rear shocks and beefy front Doetsch Tech struts up front. The ride is very deluxe actually, especially with the stock springs. Fresh shocks/struts control the car very well vs worn out stock shocks/struts. Better than stock in my case.
The stability is good, no worse than stock. It seems the hard part is getting the camber close to back to stock.
Alter Ego looks good although I have no experience with it. Their bigger lifts look awesome and complete.
They never answered an email when I tried to contact them for a roof rack... So it goes.
I went LowRange as they had the most complete kit vs mixing parts from here & there.
Speaking of tires... Goodyear Wrangler TrailRunner AT look like good tires in 225/75-15. They are light too - lighter than K02's or Grabbers (even as 215/75-15).
https://tiresize.com/tiresizes/225-75R15.htm (https://tiresize.com/tiresizes/225-75R15.htm)
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I have the first set of camber bolts and also second set of camber bolts in the bottom holes - it gained me a little but not enough.
The stock springs will settle into the spacers & seats if they are not seated on the money.
Don't hold your breath - the springs will "reseat" but they are not going to settle any more than they already have, the spacers will compress because they are polyurethane, but, the Low Range spacers are not known for significant compression settling (they are, or used to be made, by one of the forum members) - I would suggest verifying that the springs are correctly seated on the control arm, and perhaps a different brand of camber bolt - some brand offer more correction than others.
Incorrect camber & toe can cause excessive tire wear - you would not believe how rapidly you can destroy a pair of tires.
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Don't hold your breath - the springs will "reseat" but they are not going to settle any more than they already have, the spacers will compress because they are polyurethane, but, the Low Range spacers are not known for significant compression settling (they are, or used to be made, by one of the forum members) - I would suggest verifying that the springs are correctly seated on the control arm, and perhaps a different brand of camber bolt - some brand offer more correction than others.
Incorrect camber & toe can cause excessive tire wear - you would not believe how rapidly you can destroy a pair of tires.
Ok.
I am not in control of the camber bolt brands. Low Range supplies what they supply (I tossed the box they came in). My alignment shop supplied the ones that they did.
I will give a little research to that. Never occurred to me one camber bolt would have more adjust than another.
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I think what Low Range supplies are the Specialty Products 81250, which are good for 1.75 degrees of correction, Ingalls 81250 will give you 2.0 degrees, you might have difficulty finding the Ingalls, as they were acquired by Dorman a few years back.
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I used these Moog camber correction bolts on the last Tracker I lifted with the 2" spacer lift. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=204221&cc=1410501&jsn=5 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=204221&cc=1410501&jsn=5)
I only used 2 of those bolts though, (1 on each side in the bottom location). Would it be advisable or even safe to use 4 camber correction bolts? That would certainly give enough adjustment to get camber back to 0, but I would worry about tensile strength since those bolts can't possibly be a strong as their straight though counterparts. I've always wondered if anyone has done it that way, or if I was just over thinking it.
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Fordem & Old Blue,
Might I impose one last question to the experts on their opinions of this lift kit? (below as attachment)
Is there anything I should be considering with the set up/materials? I realize now that this won't offer any extra lift on the rear diff, but that's ok.
I guess camber may be an issue eh? What about the added struts - necessary, or just an add-on?
Thanks again for all the help on this file doods!
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From the description, that kit appears to be for the previous generation of Trackers (it mentions a "rear upper diff link spacer") - Altered Ego does offer an equivalent spacer kit, for a 2003 - there's no link I can repost, but here's a cut & paste of the text description.
Our 2" Spacer Lift comes with all you need! All coil spacers, strut spacers, extended brake line, rear shocks and panhard bracket.
Looking at that I'd say it's got all of the required pieces, which is something that I cannot say for all of the kits out there - regarding the struts - if yours are relatively new, you could hold on to them, if they are the originals, it's time for a change.
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Looking at that I'd say it's got all of the required pieces, which is something that I cannot say for all of the kits out there
Nice, this is good to hear (and thanks for pointing me in the direction of the kit for the 2003!). From your previous post, I understand that the rear diff clearance won't increase. With this particular spacer set-up, would the 2 inch lift increase clearance for everything else?
I will check out the struts as well to see if I should replace them at this time as well, thanks for that tip eh!
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What does "clearance for everything else" really mean? A two inch spacer lift will lift the frame of the vehicle and pretty much everything attached to it by approximately two inches.
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What does "clearance for everything else" really mean?
Means I don't know sh*t about vehicles :D
A two inch spacer lift will lift the frame of the vehicle and pretty much everything attached to it by approximately two inches.
See above - does this include cross member, front diff, oil pan, transfer case. muffler, fuel tank? As you can surmise - ultra-newbie here.
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Means I don't know sh*t about vehicles :D
See above - does this include cross member, front diff, oil pan, transfer case. muffler, fuel tank? As you can surmise - ultra-newbie here.
Here is a pic I took when I installed a 2" spacer lift on my 02 ZR2 Tracker.
See the red spacer over the spring? That is the one that lifts the vehicle ~2". It would also do roughly the same thing if I had just installed a 2" taller spring. That is where the lift comes from. Once that lift has been established, the stock strut is no longer long enough for the new range of motion. That's what the other red spacer is for over the strut.,to bring the strut back down lower than the spring spacer to get it back to a stock range. OME sells longer struts that eliminate the need for that spacer, but they are much more expensive. They're great, but you pay for that. The same problem exists in the rear once the spring spacer has been installed, but longer shocks are easy to fit in place of the stock ones.
Make sense?
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Make sense?
Big ups Jeff, thanks man! Seeing the pic and reading the description you provided helps immensely - I get it now. Really appreciate it. I am really looking forward to getting the lift for summer mountain trip season to open up more possibilities. There are a few FSRs I have shied away from that I think I will be able to tackle with a bit more clearance.
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does this include cross member, front diff, oil pan, transfer case. muffler, fuel tank?
Everything that is not directly attached to the wheels will be lifted - cross member, front diff, oil pan, transfer case, muffler all will go up - the inner ends of the front control arms which are attached to the cross member go up, the outer ends which are attached to the knuckles do not, the center section of the sway bar which are attached to the frame goes up, the outer section that attaches to the arm goes up about half the height of the lift.
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Big ups Jeff, thanks man! Seeing the pic and reading the description you provided helps immensely - I get it now. Really appreciate it. I am really looking forward to getting the lift for summer mountain trip season to open up more possibilities. There are a few FSRs I have shied away from that I think I will be able to tackle with a bit more clearance.
This is the end result of that spacer lift with 30x9.50 A/T Tires.
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Nice one Jeff! Your Tracker looks great with the spacer lift. How is it now on the logging roads/off-road?
I am still humming and hawing about going with the 2" coil space from Altered Ego, or the Old Man Emu 1.5" lift from Rocky Road.
When you did the spacer lift, was the ride quality affected? Any issues with camber adjustment afterwards?
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Nice one Jeff! Your Tracker looks great with the spacer lift. How is it now on the logging roads/off-road?
I am still humming and hawing about going with the 2" coil space from Altered Ego, or the Old Man Emu 1.5" lift from Rocky Road.
When you did the spacer lift, was the ride quality affected? Any issues with camber adjustment afterwards?
I sold that Tracker 6 months ago, and am now in the process of building another one with the same spacer lift. I used KYB struts and shocks, and the ride was great. I did have a mild camber issue even with the camber adjustment bolts added. I could never get camber much less than 1 degree positive. It was still within factory spec, so I just lived with it. It didn't affect tire wear, and you couldn't really see it with the naked eye unless you stared at it straight on and tilted your head just right. I didn't do a lot of off-roading with it, but I did take it off pavement a time or two to see what it could do. With nothing but the 2" spacer lift and 30" tires, I thought it performed perfectly. You can see in some of the attached pictures, that the rear tire articulated nicely up into the wheel well and didn't rub anything. That was on stock wheels, no spacers, and 30x9.50 A/T tires.
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Nice one Jeff, thanks for the information and sharing the pics. The last pic looks alot like some of the FSR logging roads we end up on out here in BC, good to know that you find the 2" lift sufficient. Leaning towards the OME 1.5" lift with a 225/70/16 tire if that will fit - been spending wayyyy to much time scrolling this forum. Rad resource here.
I am super stoked to get out there this summer for hiking backpacking; hoping that the lift will increase the areas we can explore!
What vehicle did you get after the Tracker?
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I ran 225/70R16 Dunlop GrandTreek AT3s on a 98 GV with OEM 16x7 alloy rims and the OME springs/struts/shocks - no rubbing anywhere, provided the toe is set correctly - those tires are now on a friends stock height GV, and he has had no issues with them rubbing.
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I ran 225/70R16 Dunlop GrandTreek AT3s on a 98 GV with OEM 16x7 alloy rims and the OME springs/struts/shocks - no rubbing anywhere, provided the toe is set correctly - those tires are now on a friends stock height GV, and he has had no issues with them rubbing.
Sweet, I am thinking of going with the same set up for the Tracker - glad to hear that that size was no trouble! Here's another newbie question for ya: when looking at current tire vs. a new larger tire, is it the increase in tire diameter that translates to the gain in clearance? Just trying to figure out how much increase in clearance we would get with the 225 set-up after the 1.25 OME lift.
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What vehicle did you get after the Tracker?
Why another Tracker of course! ;)
I'm building this one for Overland duty, so some things are getting done different than the white one. For example, I'm still using the same spacer lift and KYB shocks/struts, but I'm adding airlift air bags to the rear springs to help out when it's loaded down with camping gear. I'm also gearing down to 5.13's since this Tracker has the 2.0 4cyl. Here's some recent shots of it still on stock suspension with 225/75/15's. The Yakima RTT just arrived last week.
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That is one stylin' set up Jeff - of course you got another Tracker! That's rad, big adventures for sure on summer's horizon.
You would feel right at home here on the Sunshine Coast, BC. There are so many Trackers + older Sidekicks around.They are almost the the official used ride in our community :D