ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: DOWNEASTER on June 15, 2015, 12:10:03 PM
-
Hey guys,I started installing the new front R&P set from 4xfourart.com in the steel housing I got some months ago.All "was"going great until it was time to crank in the pinion nut and crush the spacer sleeve between the new pinion bearings.It just aint going. I still got around an 1/8th in.the pinion moves in and out and the sleeve is clanking around in there.Now I have master diff rebuild ,so bearings & races are new, as is nearly everything else.I am wondering if the steel housing which is from a '99 G.V. has a shorter pinion yoke than the '96-'98 trackicks...?and so,will not pull the pinion back up into the inner & outer bearings while setting the crush sleeve..?
I planed to rebuild my steel housing/3rd member and then put it in my rig while i did up the rear diff the same way.So,I yet to touch the front diff. in my '98 tracker and cant tell if there is a difference with the two yokes.Man ,I going to pull my damn hair out,lol. I mean I got the tools-the tech books-new parts...and still got shit.lol
-
Hey Downeaster! How ya doing? Good to hear from you. We (recon) posted back and forth on the zuwharrie forum a month or so ago.
The rebuild kit (bearings, seals) should work on all the Suzuki diff housings. The pinions and ring gears should be interchangeable as well.
I think what you are now experiencing is you have cranked your pinion nut down until now you are against the crush washer. It is a bear. About the third post in this thread I described a flange tool I built to hold the flange while I torqued on the pinion nut with my 1/2" breaker bar WITH a pipe on the breaker bar.
You will need to secure your differential VERY securely, like in a large vice. Make sure your vice is FIRMLY bolted to your work bench too. I didn't/couldn't measure the torque required to turn the pinion nut down... but it had to be on the order of 150+#s of torque to move it. Then secure your flange on the diff you are installing the pinion nut on to keep it from turning. THEN use a large breaker bar with an extension bar/pipe on it to start crushing the crush sleeve down in a very CONTROLLED way. Read the enclosed posts. It worked for me.
See the enclosed link below.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-%28gen-2-platform%29-1999-2005/gear-pattern/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-%28gen-2-platform%29-1999-2005/gear-pattern/)
I also measured the pinion depth prior to beginning the rebuild to get a good idea of how much depth I needed on the pinion gear during the rebuild. I laid a metal straight edge across the two carrier bearing yokes and then measured to the very top of the pinion gear. That was my base line to shoot for. BUT, I reused my old gears when I rebuilt mine. You are using the new 5.71 gears you just received.
Post up some pics if you can. I screwed up last time when installing my Lock Right so this time, I didn't stop to take any pics during the rebuild or Lock Right install. I was all about focusing on the rebuild... and getting my Lock Right springs in the correct holes, this time.
-
Its been awhile since I was on ,but all is good as I hope it is with you and yours.Was a real bummer about the data loss here huh.Still a great forum.And I'd be lost without you guys.
Well,about the front 3rd member,it seems the yoke is bottoming out long before the crush sleeve becomes an issue.I made a yoke tool kinda like yours and did the 1/2 drive bar with 3 foot pipe and wow wee it barely moved 1/4 after each pull.I cant see the splines so,i cant tell how much is left,if any.I was just thinking- can it be the outer bearing being more or less "pressed" on the pinion shaft..?I am going to pull it back apart and look it over ,i guess.I have a 20 ton shop press and pressed the inner bearing on the pinion and i tell ya,it went kind'a "dry".More so than other bearings I've pressed in the past. I'm just stab'n in the dark now. lol
I'm getting Very close to box'n everything up and shipping it to trail tough or the like.The 12 bolt GM rears I rebuilt in the past ,didnt go together this hard or so I can remember.But things get sugared over the years and seem sweeter.
Well,I hope to have some time to pull it apart in the A.M..Plus I will take photos. Takecare friend.
-
Doing well, thank you.
Sorry to hear about the problems on rebuilding your diff. Can you see how far the thread is down inside the pinion nut? There is about one thread above the edge of the pinion nut (typically) when it is correctly installed, so you can rough gauge where you are from there.
Now this might sound silly... but you might pull your pinion gear out and ensure you set your two pinion bearing cups in the correct way. They should face away from each other. If one is inserted backwards... that would definitely account for a lack of progress! That would be about a 1/2" you won't be able to close down on. If so, take a good punch and peck it back out, flip it over and then tap it back into place.
Another thought I just had... I don't recall pressing either of my bearings onto the pinion gear shaft. As I recall, I coated the shaft with gear oil and drew the bearing down with the pinion nut. Throw the pinion gear in the freezer for an hour or so, then the bearing should pretty much slide onto it. I'll have to think on that part.
Don't worry about making stupid mistakes. I've made enough of them for every one here on the forum. As I have stated on a few forums, I recently destroyed a perfectly good set of Lock Right pins and springs by installing them in the wrong holes. That's just the most recent example. I don't worry about them. They are learning points for me. As long as no one is hurt, there is no foul.
You have the skills. You'll find the answer. Good luck. Post up whatever you find out is the issue. I'm interested in those new gears you bought and how they work out for you on your truck.
-
This is alittle off the main subject but I been meaning to ask everyones opinion about this photo of a "brand new"uninstalled R & P.Now this is the gears i got some months ago from 4xfourart.com. these were in the bubble wrap bags that are under the ring gears in the photo and so i didnt see the dye and what clearly looks to be tooth patterns on both ring gears until I open them up.the pinions have a pattern as well but the photo i took is outa focus.
Tell me what do you see when look'n at these rings gears..? Remember they are "new"out of the box..... you should be able to blow the photo up so you can see the markings.
-
lets try loadn it up again...lol
-
I'm not sure what sort of response you're looking for - the fact that there is marking dye on the gears suggests they were installed in a differential at some point, if it's not your diff then there's not much point in analyzing the pattern.
-
Agreed. It does appear the gear has been installed in a differential before and run, a little or at least turned a LOT. Both the drive and coast side of the gears have the markings of having been run or turned quite a bit.
How much? Not much. They couldn't have been run very much, as in MAYBE some one installed them and then decided they had TOO much gear for their application or not enough gear and went with another gear ratio, possibly.
Hard to say without asking him.
Kinda looks like the pinion could have been set just a little deeper and the ring gear a little closer to the pinion.
Still, if they have been installed before and run, even a little, then in my eyes, they wouldn't qualify as "new gears" and the price point should reflect this fact. Like, for example, knocking $50-$100 off the selling price.
I'd still run them if I needed the additional gearing for my truck, though. Give him a call and allow him the opportunity to explain or adjust the purchase.
-
Thank you both,I agree they "were" installed,if only for a damn short while.These are the photos i sent to Turgut at 4xfourart.com, he flat out denies there is any type of pattern and they do not sell used gears.I ask him then how and why are there tooth patterns and pattern dye on both R & P.He told me "They "do not see any patterns and "they" put the pattern dye on to help people install them the right way......?!!!?WTF I again tried to tell him these two r&p sets have been installed and then removed"before" the truck hit the road OR they put them in wrongly and removed them after setup.He told me they do not see ANY patterns on the gears and they do not sell used gears ,plus i bought these gears back in Dec.and i could have installed them.......?with that its on. I am still pretty pissed off.It wasnt as if I demanded two new sets mailed to me,i just want them to know ,I know these are used-not new and refund afew hundred bucks back as its only fair plus i wanted to know how the warranty works .I told him i planed to keep them,no matter.but he pissed me off by blown the photos and all off. I have the emails ,both mine and his.I warned him i'd come on here and zuwarrie.com and ask/show the guys in these forums what they think and see.Now i want to get in touch with any one else who ordered a set of ring & pinion gears from 4xfourart.com first just to see if any type of dye "was"put on their new gears.Even though i totally believe he lied about it.(turgut)Even if they do indeed put pattern dye on their new R & P sets its still doesnt explain the clear tooth patterns on my two gear sets.
Now I'm have issues with install'n the damn things and cant help but wonder if thats why they were removed.I really didnt want to jump down this rabbit hole,i'd rather deal head on with Turgut but he denies seeing any patterns on the rings gears in my photos plus he claims 4xfourart.com put the tooth pattern marking dye on themselves and I could have installed them.(????? why)I smell bullshit 3 or 4000 miles away.
-
The only way I can see how the gear paint would be so uniform around the gears of the ring gear (front and back) is to install both the ring and pinion in a diff, as in "set them up in a diff" then apply drag to the ring gear and (at least) turn it completely and repeatedly around in both directions several times while the ring gear has drag applied to it.
Still... you have them and intend to keep them and run them, AND giving TURGUT the benefit of the doubt that he may apply paint to them (somehow), where are you on pulling your pinion gear back out and checking everything?
Are the cups in correctly? Have your measured the pinion shaft's outside diameter and the differential's inside diameter OR more simply, compared the new pinion shaft outside diameter with the old pinion shaft outside diameter? That would tell a story quickly. If they are really close, freezing the pinion shaft may allow the bearings to slide on with slight pressure. A 0.003" difference in diameter can mean the difference between a regular press fit, a REALLY tight press fit or maybe not going on at all.
-
Anyone who says there is no pattern on those gears is either blind or not being honest - they were installed in a third member at some point - whether or not, that third member was in a vehicle which was driven (ie. used), and how or where it happened is another matter altogether.
There is a uniform concentration of dye in the foreground of the picture consistent with the dye having been applied with a brush, this is what I would expect when doing an install and set up of the gears, in this area, the dye has also been wiped off by contact with the pinion.
The remainder of the visible teeth also have dye on them, much less dye, which would have been transferred from the ring to the pinion, and then back to ring as it was rotated - for this transfer to be on every tooth as it appears here, the ring would have to have been turned more than just a few revolutions.
I'm no expert, I don't see this being done in a manufacturing facility - and whilst, it is my understanding that the gears, having been manufactured, are "lapped", at which point they become a "matched pair", and should not be separated, I would hate to think that your gears were lapped and left that pattern, which as Norm has pointed out is far from ideal.
-
Salvage the situation best as you can, DownEaster. If the pinion bearings will install onto the pinion shaft, I'd go ahead and set them up correctly. I doubt there is a lot of wear-in on the teeth. They don't appear to be worn-in completely. May not be a perfect circumstance, but if they assemble and you can get the correct pinion depth and ring gear lap, they should run and I don't think they would be too noisy or wear excessively while the teeth wear-in together, provided they are hardened correctly. More gear is more better.
-
Thank you guys so much.I still plan to use these gears.I just feel Turgut at 4xfourart.com has cheated me and may well do it to others as well.The same photo you guys have seen (the posted pic)is the one i sent to Turgut and he/they see nothing in the way of patterns from usage or other wise.I want others to know about this situation before they put up their hard earned cash for r & p sets from 4xfourart.com and after seeing it on the two forums i mentioned Turgut may want to remedy the situation/make it right.
Ok I took a bunch of photos but as always most didnt come out .lol The "new" pinion has the inner bearing still on it.The other is the factory pinion.The ring gear is installed on Trail Tough's lockright prep 3 pin diff,ready to go.I set the two diff's side by side so you can see the difference in thickness in ring gears.(thick one is the 5:85 r&p)The factory 4:30 and diff is for sale if anyone needs one.
The 4xfourart.com 5:85 pinion is alittle bit shorter(+/- 1/8th inch) as compared to the factory pinion.The outter bearing mount surface is 1.182 on the "old pinion"and 1.186 on the "new pinion". I think i will take the inner bearing off and compare them again but as they are now each bearing mounting surface looks to be the same, length wise.
Do the 1999-up G.V. & TRACKER & VITIRA take different pinion bearings & races and so on,compared to the 1996-98 trackicks..? I know the outside dimensions are the same on the housings & 3rds but still wonder if the bearings for the pinion is different..?
When i ordered these gear sets Turgut wanted a photo of the truck they were to be used in so he could tell just what type and year it was himself even though i sent the needed info to him.
I had the pinion nut all the way down so that it was flush with the pinion.One more turn and one thread would have been out by the pinion nut.I'm still thinking the yoke mite be the key here,in my situation.As this 3rd & housing is out of a '99 G.V. the yoke looks different than the front one on my rig.LOL this one mite be over my head.I'm get'n scatter brain every time i start on it.LOL.
-
more photos .....
-
Man dear alive,i dont know what I'm doing wrong. There was 8 pic.s in the last post yet just one posted...?
-
The carrier cases in the pics are designed differently (1st gen and 2nd gen) but the bearing surfaces and the actual width of the carrier should be the same. That's why the gears are interchangeable with these trucks, as long as they are the same bolt pattern (12 bolt) and you don't mix the pinion and ring gears.
The Sammy/Tacker/Sidekick/GV diff bearings should be interchangeable. I still don't think it is a diff case issue. Check your shaft measurements again. The numbers you posted indicated a 0.004 thousandths difference. If that is true, freeze your new pinion shaft then measure it while frozen. It may well be you will need to freeze your pinion shaft and maybe even slightly heat your bearing to 150 degrees to allow it to press fit. Rear axle bearing collars are JUST about as tight, but not quite. Just make sure your bearings are oriented properly before you press them.... if you have to! Keep your pinion shaft lubed with some fine oil too. A good bearing pulling collar would be handy. Will you be able to pull the pinion bearing off to change the shim stack without destroying the new pinion bearing? I don't know. You might consider using the old pinion bearing for the initial increase in shims. It would probably get you in the ball park of what you need.
You also need to remember the significant difference in the gearing ratios between these two sets of gears. The higher the gear ratio... the smaller is the size of the gear teeth because there are MORE gear teeth within the same circumference.
An important measurement (beside diameters) is the measurement from the shoulder of the pinion gear to the end of the pinion shaft. I can't see the shoulder on the stock pinion because the bearing is still sitting on it, but I'll bet the "shoulder" (the area between where the bearing rests and where the pinion gear begins) is SHORTER than on the higher gear's pinion shaft. That is because of design necessity. The higher geared pinion diff gears are shorter because of the ring gear design and additional number of teeth.
You may simply need to add (stack) MORE shims under the pinion gear (between the first pinion bearing and the pinion gear) on the new diff in order to "raise" the pinion gear "up" towards the ring gear more, where it needs to be. The new ring gear diameter didn't change. It can't. It still has to go into the same axle housing as the old one... but by observation, the new pinion gear is shorter and more compact and would need more shimming to get it up to the ring gear BECAUSE it is shorter. If you don't have enough shimming... then the new pinion shaft may also not have enough threads on it to tighten the pinion shaft in the diff case. Even if it did, without the proper shimming, the pinion gear wouldn't be at proper depth it needs to be within the ring gear. The gear teeth tracks of the pinion gear need to be pretty much centered between the heel and toe of your ring gears (correct depth). Then you adjust your carrier left or right to get the 0.005 - 0.008 gear play lash.
Adding shims simply "raises" the pinion towards/into the pattern of the ring gear teeth. Adjusting the carrier bearings moves the ring gear into and out of contact with the pinion gear (lash). Once the pinion nut is tightened, the shims are pressed between the pinion shaft and the inner bearing surface, so they rotate with the pinion. They are only spacers.
It will take some careful experimentation of adding shims and then assembling your diff (tightening down the pinion nut, then mounting your ring gear, measuring gear lap, then applying some paint to the ring gear, tension the ring gear and rotate it to see where your pinion depth is) to figure out the correct combination of shims. I suspect you will end up stacking a few shims to get the pinion depth you need to run correctly.
Don't get frustrated. Take your time. Don't over tighten your crush sleeve too much at one time. Add a shim or two, then assemble your diff carefully. Paint your ring gear, tension it and then rotate it three or four times forward and backwards and check you gear tracks. Repeat as necessary.
Or... you can still "pack it all up" and send it to Trail Tough or another of the venders who work on rebuilding/gearing these diffs all the time.
I got a good idea of your frustration level on this modification, but I won't sit here and pack your butt with comments like "I feel your pain". It's always more intense for the person in the arena actually doing "it". It's as big of a difference as watching someone get hit by a car and actually being the person being hit by that car. It's just NOT quite the same thing. :-\
Good luck to you on this. We're pulling for you. In the end, we all just want your truck to be "more better" with more gearing as you initially intended.
-
Nprecon i take it you've done this before. lol Thanks again for the support.I should have taken the bearing off the "new' pinion before the comparison.The shoulder you talked of on each is about the same but i will measure from the shoulder to the end of the pinion shaft.if you look at the stock pinion it has a large shim on it,which i forgot to consider before put'n a shim on the new pinion.
That idea about using the stock pinion bearing sounds like a good one,which i plan to do.As is the freeze'n method.I posted photos of the two ring gears so others could see the difference in thickness of a 5:85(really thick) and a 4:30(thinner) ring gear ratio.
I plan on add'n multiple shims then the old bearing and see were it puts me IF the measurements mentioned earlier checks out.Then I'll post my findings.
You need a 2nd gen. air operated carrier or 4:30 R&P ? P.M.me please if so.
Again thank you. Takecare.
-
Ha! :laugh: My limited experience is from rebuilding ONE Suzuki differential and taking three or four others apart when installing Lock Right lockers (once not even doing that correctly) and then reading on the subject. So... nope, I'm no expert by a long shot.
These forums just allow us to have virtual conversations. The type of conversations we all would probably be having with each other if we were together and leaning over the same hood talking about some kind of mechanical issue or project. We all have this one sickness in common and enjoy working on our trucks (sometimes) and talking about working on them with others. Oh, yeah, then there's the "driving our trucks" part that's pretty enjoyable too.
So, we just try to get each other over humps and problems as they come up while we are tinkering. It's just what we do and what this Zukiworld forum (and others) provide a great venue to do it.
-
well,i gave up and took the easier way out .LOL (i sent it to TRAIL TOUGH) they got it afew days ago and havent started on it as yet but i'll post info as i get it.
-
I'm hoping it all goes together smoothly and that you get your higher gears for your truck that you need! Sometimes the money is less valuable than your time and the frustration.
-
well,i gave up and took the easier way out .LOL (i sent it to TRAIL TOUGH) they got it afew days ago and havent started on it as yet but i'll post info as i get it.
HEY GUYS,I got my 3rd's back from TRAIL TOUGH afew weeks ago and installed them in my rig.I've put around 1500 miles on it and I love the 5:85 R&P.I can use 5th gear again,LOL.The power i got back is alil more than stock(when it had 205/15/70 on it).And it crawls nicely at idle.I even got 4 more mpg. as i'm not floor'n it half the time.LOL
The Lockrights are AWESUM.I have the #1532 in the rear and a #1510 up front( its one of Trail Tough's prepped lockright carriers).The rear isnt unlock'n as much as I'd like it too in corners,but thats my ONLY complaint with them .I run one years ago so,i know what to expect from them on dry pavement and so on.Oh,there is one unexpected thing that has happened as a cause of the lockright up front (I believe ?)is my power steering fluid is getting very hot,so much so,I've got to put a cooler on it.I got one thats 10"L x 6"H x 3/4"W.that should do it,hopfully.lol
I must give"Trail Tough" big ups on setting up my 3rds.They are "Professionals" yet they did it inexpensively ($150 per 3rd.)as I had new bearings & races & seals,besides the setup of both the lockrights and R & P gears.If you dont get it setup correctly the first try,then you WILL DO AGAIN.
My rig is a "toy" of sorts as i dont use it as a daily driver.That being said I wouldnt install lockrights in both front and rear if it was my daily ride cause they tend to wear tires very fast in city type driving.Other than that,what fun they are .lol. Its great to motor by those places you got hung-up in or couldnt get by before.And thats the point right guys.I think its a Blast.LOL.
-
Sweet to hear that you like the gears , what size tire's are you running and do you have 4:24 transfer case gears as well ?
-
Man dear alive,i dont know what I'm doing wrong. There was 8 pic.s in the last post yet just one posted...?
To add additional picture you have to click on the text (more attachments) which is below the Choose File box. That will open an additional box to insert more pictures. If you do not then each new picture will over-write the first picture so you end up with only one picture.
-
Sweet to hear that you like the gears , what size tire's are you running and do you have 4:24 transfer case gears as well ?
Hello,I'm running BFG 32x11.50 KM2 on 15 inch wheels.i dont have that 4:24 transfer gear set-yet.lol.I hope to rebuild the trans (5spd)and transfer this winter/spring so,i'll do that gear set as well.
-
Very glad to hear it all came together for you and that you now have your truck back and running like Suzuki intended it to run (but with your larger tires on it). More gear in the differentials just puts a smile on your face while you are driving. It's got to be like driving a new truck.
-
glad to hear that it all worked out the way that you wanted it and 150 a set the set up is cheap in my eyes at least you know that they were set up proper
-
Yeah I thought $150 buck per 3rd setup wasnt bad at all.And Trail Tough is great to deal with.
nprecon it is like a new truck to me,lol.I can fly along a 60-70mph, even maintain that speed up most hills without try'n to push the gas pedal threw the floor. lol. I havent been in any muddy hard spots yet to give it a go, but I can tell the clutch will luv me for the new gears.
Has anyone here seen or heard of a set of mounts for one of those "42.5 inch curved led light bars" for a first gen. trackick ? I got one of the osram type curved jobs.At 42.5 or 43 inch long it "can" fit pretty well at the top of the windshield on the pillars.I'm not very crazy about poken holes threw those pillars but i dont have much time to engineer a mount that would go on the inside top jam of the doors or maybe something like the jeeps have on the windshield pillars.I may post this question under a new topic so more can read it.
Well I got to go,its GREAT to hear from you guys.Takecare.
-
At 60 mph what rpm are you running in 5th
-
I can tell the clutch will luv me for the new gears.
Without a doubt! Your whole drive train will love those new diff gears and will hold up much longer since the stress has been evened out across your entire drive train components. I don't recall if you had reinforced your pitman arm yet, but if you haven't, that would be a very useful mod running your larger tires too.
-
At 60 mph what rpm are you running in 5th
Well alil over 3000rpms at 60mph.
-
I can tell the clutch will luv me for the new gears.
Without a doubt! Your whole drive train will love those new diff gears and will hold up much longer since the stress has been evened out across your entire drive train components. I don't recall if you had reinforced your pitman arm yet, but if you haven't, that would be a very useful mod running your larger tires too.
Yeah i got one of the super sized ones from sky's when i installed my lift.I can tell that was a good investment by how hot the power steering fluid is getting,got an idea the stock one would have busted by now.I still havent put my cooler in the steering unit yet.I really got to do before i go outing in the woods with my rig.
-
sounds like the gear set was a good choice and I will do the same thing soon i guess , I have on the rebuild of my tracker 255 85 16 KM2s and they measure 33 3/8" tall.
-
I believe its the way to go"if" you can afford it.The new gear sets(5:85) alone are $1024 shipped to your door,then you add in two master rebuild kits for each diff.plus new axle bearings out back and wheel bearings up front and professional ring & pinion setup will chewup two grand all together and thats without add'n in any type of lockers,which is a must if you've gone this far.lol As you already may know I went with a#1532 lockright out back and a carrier with a #1510(i think)lockright all setup from Trail Tough up front.And man what a lil animal !! Its money well spent IMHO.
-
4xfourart 5.72 Diff Gear Noise:
http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52018 (http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52018)
-
Looking at that pic of the ring gear, it appears to me the ring gear adjustment was good BUT pinion depth isn't set-up properly. For new pinion and ring gears the "wear" pattern should be centered between the inside and out side of the ring gear teeth.
However, the pinion gear wear pattern is wearing on the inside (toe) of the ring gear teeth (the bottom red oval in the pic). The wear pattern should be centered between the inside (toe) and outside (heel) of the ring gear (the top red oval in below pic). I'm going to say the guy who installed these gears used too thick of (or too many stacked) shims on the pinion gear which pushed the pinion contact patch up too far into the ring gear.
As the gear mating surfaces wear over time, the contact patch becomes wider and deeper to reflect the metal worn from the constant meshing contact. You want this contact patch initially centered on the ring gear so as this wear occurs naturally... there is room for the contact patch to spread evenly across the ring gear mating surfaces: in both (height and width) directions.
If they aren't properly centered initially, using the correct height of shims for the pinion gear and the proper back lash clearance on the ring gear, as the gears wear in they will develop uneven wearing patterns. In the case of this pic, I would bet the pinion gear is or will soon be developing a "lip" on the pinion gear where it extends too far inside onto the "toe" of the ring gear.
My thought is these gears (in this pic) weren't set-up properly initially, which places the fault with the mechanic who did the work far more than the composition of the metal of these gears.
I don't think the material is as important here as the proper set-up of the gears, initially. Even if the gears are made of titanium, they will still wear improperly when they aren't set-up correctly initially. That's what I think.
It is a good idea to drive on the gears for a few miles and then get out and feel the diff case to see if there is excessive heat build up in them initially after a rebuild. They should be warm to the touch, as in you can leave you fingers on them for a few seconds before they feel too hot. If they are too hot to even leave your fingers on them a second, something is probably wrong. I'll bet this diff was kicking up some heat after a few miles. It's nice if they don't leak anywhere after a rebuild, but there is more to installing them.
-
Hi this is my car in the photos above.
Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.
1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.
2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.
3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900. Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving.
I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution. I will update on the outcome.
I appreciate the input.
-
Thanks for the direct feed back. Please keep all of us up on this issue through final resolution, if you would. With the lack of availability for high ratio new ring and pinion gears for our trucks, losing yet another source because of quality issues would be really disappointing. I hope Turgot works with you to correct what ever issues there may be here and both of you are satisfied with the outcome.
Oh... and welcome to the Zukiworld forum too!!!
-
It would be interesting to know if there was simply a hardening processing issue with a "batch" of his 5.72 gears and if this affected his other gears as well. Since the gear lap of the pinion and ring gear was in question, there may be more significant milling processes in question as well.
-
#1. Would a T-Case low gear set reduce the need for 4xfourart R & P gears for the following models?:
Calmini 1991–1998 Trackicks:
http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=5&t=3&p=957&n= (http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=5&t=3&p=957&n=)
Calmini 1999–2002 Vitara:
http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=7&t=3&p=759&n= (http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=7&t=3&p=759&n=)
Trail Tough 1991-1998 Trackicks & 1999-2001 Vitara:
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53)
#2. Is Low Range Off Road fully accurate when they say that Trail Tough's T-Case low gear set is also good for 1999-2001 Grand Vitaras??:
http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html (http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html)
-
Arced/RJ6 - whoever you claim to be - what is your interest in this - what vehicle do you have - what are you trying to do with it - is there a problem you need help with?
-
I called Calmini on the telephone, & they said that their Trackick T-Case Low Gear Set, product #SK5047, is good for all Trackicks, Vitaras, & Grand Vitaras from 1991-2002.
-
#1. Would a T-Case low gear set reduce the need for 4xfourart R & P gears for the following models?:
Calmini 1991–1998 Trackicks:
[url]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=5&t=3&p=957&n=[/url] ([url]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=5&t=3&p=957&n=[/url])
Calmini 1999–2002 Vitara:
[url]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=7&t=3&p=759&n=[/url] ([url]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=7&t=3&p=759&n=[/url])
Trail Tough 1991-1998 Trackicks & 1991-2001 Vitara:
[url]http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53[/url] ([url]http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53[/url])
#2. Is Low Range Off Road fully accurate when they say that Trail Tough's T-Case low gear set is also good for 1999-2001 Grand Vitaras??:
[url]http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html[/url] ([url]http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html[/url])
In a nutshell: No, not if you are running 31" or larger tires on stock differential gearing. These transfer case gears for the Kicks and Trackers only increase gearing while shifted into low range (unlike the Sammy t-case gears). In high range they do nothing to increase the mechanical advantage to the wheels. So the guys who are experiencing "power" loss issues from increasing their tire diameters (along with the increased tire weight as well) will receive no relief when driving on the pavement with a set of transfer case gears, alone. The only time they would benefit is when they are wheeling off road while in low range. Then the increased t-case gearing would be helpful.
If it were me, I'd upgrade the differential gearing first. Over gear it a little even. This would help distribute the stress across the entire drive more evenly, reduce pressure points, and provide more "power" when driving on the pavement at all speeds, in all gears. This would also increase the mechanical advantage from the transfer case proportionally when shifted into and driving in low range as well. Then... IF that wasn't enough of an increase in gearing to do that which the owner needed for where and how he drives his truck... THEN I would invest in the reduced T-case gears next.
Keeping the stress balanced throughout the drive train will enhance the longevity of the entire drive train (to include the clutch and tranny) and reduce breakage at the high stress points that you would have if it were not evenly balanced out... like u-joints and clutches smoked prematurely.
-
#2. Is Low Range Off Road fully accurate when they say that Trail Tough's T-Case low gear set is also good for 1999-2001 Grand Vitaras??:
[url]http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html[/url] ([url]http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html[/url])
I called Trail Tough on the phone, & Brent said that their Trackick T-Case Low Gear Set is good for GV's only if they have an automatic transmission.
-
I called Calmini on the telephone, & they said that their Trackick T-Case Low Gear Set, product #SK5047, is good for all Trackicks, Vitaras, & Grand Vitaras from 1991-2002.
When I called Trail Tough at 877-789-8547 & talked to Brent, he also told me that his Trackick T-Case Low Gear Set was the same as Calmini's Trackick T-Case Low Gear Set, so I called Calmini back on their tech line of 661-398-9500 because I thought that it might be more reliable than their sales line of 800-345-3305, & they said again that their Trackick T-Case Low Gear Set, product #SK5047, is good for all Trackicks, Vitaras, & Grand Vitaras from 1991-2002, & they also explicitly said that it was good for both types of transmissions.
-
#1. If it's true that according to the website below, all of the Chevrolet Tracker T-Cases for all models of 2.0 Liter Chevrolet Trackers from 1999-2004 have a part number of either #91177379 for manual transmissions, or #91177069 for automatic transmissions, and if it's true that according to the website below, all of the Chevrolet Tracker T-Cases for all models of 2001-2004 Chevrolet Trackers with 2.5 Liter engines have a part number of #91177069 for both manual & automatic transmissions, then the Trackick T-Case low gear sets from Calmini, Trail Gear, Trail Tough, & Zuki Nation or Altered Ego Motorsports in British Columbia should be good for all models of Chevrolet Trackers thru 2004:
http://www.gmpartscenter.net (http://www.gmpartscenter.net)
#2. If Auto Parts Fair is correct in giving the same stock numbers for all Suzuki Vitara T-Cases for all 2000-2003 Suzuki Vitaras with 2.0 Liter engines & manual transmissions, then the Trackick T-Case low gear sets from Calmini, Trail Gear, Trail Tough, & Zuki Nation or Altered Ego Motorsports in British Columbia should be good for all models of Suzuki Vitaras with 2.0 Liter engines & manual transmissions thru 2003:
http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2000-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=d716fe5f3d7a92e0dd04841c914942fe&seq_num=3 (http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2000-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=d716fe5f3d7a92e0dd04841c914942fe&seq_num=3)
http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2001-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=d716fe5f3d7a92e0dd04841c914942fe&seq_num=3 (http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2001-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=d716fe5f3d7a92e0dd04841c914942fe&seq_num=3)
http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2002-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=d716fe5f3d7a92e0dd04841c914942fe&seq_num=3 (http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2002-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=d716fe5f3d7a92e0dd04841c914942fe&seq_num=3)
http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2003-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=d716fe5f3d7a92e0dd04841c914942fe&seq_num=3 (http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2003-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=d716fe5f3d7a92e0dd04841c914942fe&seq_num=3)
#3. If Auto Parts Fair is correct in giving the same stock numbers for all Suzuki Vitara T-Cases for all 2001-2003 Suzuki Vitaras with 2.0 Liter engines & automatic transmissions, and ALSO for all Suzuki Vitara T-Cases for 2004 Base Model Suzuki Vitaras with 2.5 Liter engines & automatic transmissions, then the Trackick T-Case low gear sets from Calmini, Trail Gear, Trail Tough, & Zuki Nation or Altered Ego Motorsports in British Columbia should be good for all 2.0 Liter Suzuki Vitaras with automatic transmissions thru 2003, and the 2.5 Liter Base Model Suzuki Vitara in 2004 with automatic transmissions:
http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2001-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=6f3c33274fe59201c762de38dadaa4e7&seq_num=4 (http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2001-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=6f3c33274fe59201c762de38dadaa4e7&seq_num=4)
http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2002-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=6f3c33274fe59201c762de38dadaa4e7&seq_num=4 (http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2002-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=6f3c33274fe59201c762de38dadaa4e7&seq_num=4)
http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2003-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=6f3c33274fe59201c762de38dadaa4e7&seq_num=4 (http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2003-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=6f3c33274fe59201c762de38dadaa4e7&seq_num=4)
http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2004-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=6f3c33274fe59201c762de38dadaa4e7&seq_num=5 (http://www.autopartsfair.com/suzuki-usedparts/vitara-2004-transfer_case.html?fit_notes=6f3c33274fe59201c762de38dadaa4e7&seq_num=5)
#4. However, I didn't have time to check on 1st Generation 2.5 Liter Vitaras that may have been sold overseas or GV's or XL7's.
Trail Tough:
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53)
Trail Gear:
https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/T-Case_Gear_Set__4_24_1____Sidekick__Tracker___X90__1991-1998____Vitara_1999-2001_/i_0_0_4734/_302882-3-KIT.aspx#.VviaZBLmqM- (https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/T-Case_Gear_Set__4_24_1____Sidekick__Tracker___X90__1991-1998____Vitara_1999-2001_/i_0_0_4734/_302882-3-KIT.aspx#.VviaZBLmqM-)
-
Typos fixed in URL's or links above.
-
Typos fixed in URL's or links above.
arced,
Very interesting information (at least to me), the ability to interchange parts and/or extend range of uses is what makes our builds easier and better.
I (that may just be me) would like to see this in new link (not to hijack the "Front 3rd member rebuild issue's"). I have been working/researching along the same ideas and do think that changing TC's can be included to other models/manufactures.
Thanks for getting me distracted this morning for at least an hour.
Where are you located?
-
Typos fixed in URL's or links above.
arced,
Very interesting information (at least to me), the ability to interchange parts and/or extend range of uses is what makes our builds easier and better. I (that may just be me) would like to see this in new link (not to hijack the "Front 3rd member rebuild issue's"). I have been working/researching along the same ideas and do think that changing TC's can be included to other models/manufactures. Thanks for getting me distracted this morning for at least an hour. Where are you located?
See the following:
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-performance-modify/t-cases (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-performance-modify/t-cases)
-
4xfourart 5.72 Diff Gear Noise:
[url]http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52018[/url] ([url]http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52018[/url])
Looking at that pic of the ring gear, it appears to me the ring gear adjustment was good BUT pinion depth isn't set-up properly. For new pinion and ring gears the "wear" pattern should be centered between the inside and out side of the ring gear teeth. However, the pinion gear wear pattern is wearing on the inside (toe) of the ring gear teeth (the bottom red oval in the pic). The wear pattern should be centered between the inside (toe) and outside (heel) of the ring gear (the top red oval in below pic). I'm going to say the guy who installed these gears used too thick of (or too many stacked) shims on the pinion gear which pushed the pinion contact patch up too far into the ring gear. As the gear mating surfaces wear over time, the contact patch becomes wider and deeper to reflect the metal worn from the constant meshing contact. You want this contact patch initially centered on the ring gear so as this wear occurs naturally... there is room for the contact patch to spread evenly across the ring gear mating surfaces: in both (height and width) directions. If they aren't properly centered initially, using the correct height of shims for the pinion gear and the proper back lash clearance on the ring gear, as the gears wear in they will develop uneven wearing patterns. In the case of this pic, I would bet the pinion gear is or will soon be developing a "lip" on the pinion gear where it extends too far inside onto the "toe" of the ring gear. My thought is these gears (in this pic) weren't set-up properly initially, which places the fault with the mechanic who did the work far more than the composition of the metal of these gears. I don't think the material is as important here as the proper set-up of the gears, initially. Even if the gears are made of titanium, they will still wear improperly when they aren't set-up correctly initially. That's what I think. It is a good idea to drive on the gears for a few miles and then get out and feel the diff case to see if there is excessive heat build up in them initially after a rebuild. They should be warm to the touch, as in you can leave you fingers on them for a few seconds before they feel too hot. If they are too hot to even leave your fingers on them a second, something is probably wrong. I'll bet this diff was kicking up some heat after a few miles. It's nice if they don't leak anywhere after a rebuild, but there is more to installing them.
Hi this is my car in the photos above. Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.
1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.
2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.
3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900. Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving. I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution. I will update on the outcome. I appreciate the input.
"kingkom" has new a reply with new pictures at the following email forum thread:
http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52018 (http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52018)
-
"nprecon", these aren't for suzuki/tracker, but what about the idea?:
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/doubler.htm (http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/doubler.htm)
https://www.marlincrawler.com/transfer-case/line-ups/pickup-4runner-kits (https://www.marlincrawler.com/transfer-case/line-ups/pickup-4runner-kits)
-
Suzuki/Geo Doublers are here!:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here.html (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here.html)
-
The "Suzuki/Geo Doublers are here!" email forum thread was started on 08-16-2007, but "johnnc" just wrote the following at that email forum thread on 03-23-2016 on page 7:
"Not sure if Jake got back to you guys wanting a doubler. If not, PM me for the contact number. I don't want to post it in the open. I bought a kick/toy setup from him late last year for my Sidekick and it rocks."
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here.html (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here.html)
Page 7:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here-7.html (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here-7.html)
-
Looking for Gears:
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/looking-for-gears-37225/msg290262 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/looking-for-gears-37225/msg290262)
-
#1. Would a T-Case low gear set reduce the need for 4xfourart R & P gears for the following models?:
Calmini 1991–1998 Trackicks:
[url]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=5&t=3&p=957&n=[/url] ([url]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=5&t=3&p=957&n=[/url])
Calmini 1999–2002 Vitara:
[url]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=7&t=3&p=759&n=[/url] ([url]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=2&m=7&t=3&p=759&n=[/url])
Trail Tough 1991-1998 Trackicks & 1991-2001 Vitara:
[url]http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53[/url] ([url]http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53[/url])
#2. Is Low Range Off Road fully accurate when they say that Trail Tough's T-Case low gear set is also good for 1999-2001 Grand Vitaras??:
[url]http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html[/url] ([url]http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki-off-road-parts/tracker-vitara-gv-xl7/transfercase/sidekick-tracker-vitara-4-24-1-rockmonster-transfer-case-gears.html[/url])
In a nutshell: No, not if you are running 31" or larger tires on stock differential gearing. These transfer case gears for the Kicks and Trackers only increase gearing while shifted into low range (unlike the Sammy t-case gears). In high range they do nothing to increase the mechanical advantage to the wheels. So the guys who are experiencing "power" loss issues from increasing their tire diameters (along with the increased tire weight as well) will receive no relief when driving on the pavement with a set of transfer case gears, alone. The only time they would benefit is when they are wheeling off road while in low range. Then the increased t-case gearing would be helpful.
If it were me, I'd upgrade the differential gearing first. Over gear it a little even. This would help distribute the stress across the entire drive more evenly, reduce pressure points, and provide more "power" when driving on the pavement at all speeds, in all gears. This would also increase the mechanical advantage from the transfer case proportionally when shifted into and driving in low range as well. Then... IF that wasn't enough of an increase in gearing to do that which the owner needed for where and how he drives his truck... THEN I would invest in the reduced T-case gears next.
Keeping the stress balanced throughout the drive train will enhance the longevity of the entire drive train (to include the clutch and tranny) and reduce breakage at the high stress points that you would have if it were not evenly balanced out... like u-joints and clutches smoked prematurely.
"DOWNEASTER" wrote the following at Reply #3 at the following thread:
"If you were offroadn a bunch a 4:24 type transfer case gear set would be a super cheap help. And they work pretty good from what i've heard."
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/looking-for-gears-37225/msg290262 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/looking-for-gears-37225/msg290262)
-
Looking at that pic of the ring gear, it appears to me the ring gear adjustment was good BUT pinion depth isn't set-up properly. For new pinion and ring gears the "wear" pattern should be centered between the inside and out side of the ring gear teeth. However, the pinion gear wear pattern is wearing on the inside (toe) of the ring gear teeth (the bottom red oval in the pic). The wear pattern should be centered between the inside (toe) and outside (heel) of the ring gear (the top red oval in below pic). I'm going to say the guy who installed these gears used too thick of (or too many stacked) shims on the pinion gear which pushed the pinion contact patch up too far into the ring gear. As the gear mating surfaces wear over time, the contact patch becomes wider and deeper to reflect the metal worn from the constant meshing contact. You want this contact patch initially centered on the ring gear so as this wear occurs naturally... there is room for the contact patch to spread evenly across the ring gear mating surfaces: in both (height and width) directions. If they aren't properly centered initially, using the correct height of shims for the pinion gear and the proper back lash clearance on the ring gear, as the gears wear in they will develop uneven wearing patterns. In the case of this pic, I would bet the pinion gear is or will soon be developing a "lip" on the pinion gear where it extends too far inside onto the "toe" of the ring gear. My thought is these gears (in this pic) weren't set-up properly initially, which places the fault with the mechanic who did the work far more than the composition of the metal of these gears. I don't think the material is as important here as the proper set-up of the gears, initially. Even if the gears are made of titanium, they will still wear improperly when they aren't set-up correctly initially. That's what I think. It is a good idea to drive on the gears for a few miles and then get out and feel the diff case to see if there is excessive heat build up in them initially after a rebuild. They should be warm to the touch, as in you can leave you fingers on them for a few seconds before they feel too hot. If they are too hot to even leave your fingers on them a second, something is probably wrong. I'll bet this diff was kicking up some heat after a few miles. It's nice if they don't leak anywhere after a rebuild, but there is more to installing them.
Hi this is my car in the photos above. Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.
1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.
2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.
3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900. Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving. I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution. I will update on the outcome. I appreciate the input.
#1. "Downeaster" also said in Reply #1 in the following email thread that "lastly i had to have both 3rd's setup by professionals (Trail Tough) as these "new" gears are nonstandard type setup and you WILL destroy them quickly if they arent setup properly."
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/looking-for-gears-37225 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/looking-for-gears-37225)
#2. Also, "Downeaster" lives in Machiasport, Maine, & Trail Tough is in Medford, Oregon.
-
Hi this is my car in the photos above.
Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.
1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.
2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.
3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900. Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving.
I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution. I will update on the outcome.
I appreciate the input.
Hello friend,I got a set of 5:85 from 4Xfourart.com and you've may seen my older posts,did you ever hear back from them..? they do anything for you..?I got 3000 to 4000 miles on mine set,there was a very small amount(normal)of filings in the oil at 500-600 hundred.I plan on changing it anytime now,so I'll keep you posted.But I havent had any type of noise from either front or rear.My only issue is the "lockrites" dont like to unlock on corning most the time.I wasnt too surprised as i have run one some years ago with the same issue in a '70 Chevy 4X4.
-
My only issue is the "lockrites" don't like to unlock on cornering most the time. I wasnt too surprised as I have run one some years ago with the same issue in a '70 Chevy 4X4.
#1. Is that both front & rear, or just the front?
#2. If you had it to do over, would you still get the new R & P's, or would you get T-Case low gears:
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53)
-
Suzuki/Geo Doublers are here!:
[url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here.html[/url] ([url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/605998-suzuki-geo-doublers-here.html[/url])
New Thread!!!!:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/2310858-tracker-samurai-doubler-question.html (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/2310858-tracker-samurai-doubler-question.html)
-
My only issue is the "lockrites" don't like to unlock on cornering most the time. I wasnt too surprised as I have run one some years ago with the same issue in a '70 Chevy 4X4.
#1. Is that both front & rear, or just the front?
#2. If you had it to do over, would you still get the new R & P's, or would you get T-Case low gears:
Hello friend, yes i would go with the 5:85 gears if i did it over.PLUS the T-case low gears. the lockrights are great off road lockers for the money and they are tough.But you have to remember they are made for "off road" use, not 90+% on road use.So,if run on the street you can look forward to very fast tire wear and or noise from the diffs.plus tires will squeal on nearly all corning.But most of these issues will be the same on 99.9% of diff lockers that are street driven.And i can live with the tradeoff issues as they will sell them selves when your in deep mud or rock climbing.
[url]http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53[/url] ([url]http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53[/url])
-
Hi this is my car in the photos above.
Those were my initial thoughts but after having it looked at by another diff specialist he thinks it is the gears and not the setup for a number of reasons.
1. You can see the contact pattern is variable between teeth, apparently this is the best pattern that could be achieved my mechanic complained as soon as he looked at the gears that they don't quite seem to mesh right.
2. I have only driven 900km and after only 500km the diff had to be removed (started making noise) and the backlash had increased by a large amount (went from 0.12 to 0.22) and had to be reset - now again after 400km (900 total) the backlash is out again and there is a MASSIVE quantity of fine metal in the oil, it is completely black with a 1cm thick layer of metal filings in the bottom of the plastic bottle I emptied it into and all over the magnet - this is undoubtedly hugely accelerated wear.
3. The second diff specialist says that the gears look like they've done over 200,000km even though they've only done 900. Even with a suboptimal contact pattern they should not wear that fast after 2 weeks of driving.
I am currently waiting for a reply from 4xfourart. They have acknowledged there is a problem and the person I emailed said he requires until the end of the week to consult with their tech guys and promised to reach a solution. I will update on the outcome.
I appreciate the input.
Hello,So have you heard back from 4xfourart,com about this issue...? I got a set of 5:85 r&p from them and my posts you can see they looked to be "used",after emailing them a bunch I was called a lier and nothing was done to remedy my situation.