ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: williamb81 on January 27, 2012, 08:29:53 AM
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I have been working on an 87 for the last few months. (pics coming soon) My lockers came in this week and i started to tackle the job. The rear end had so much mud sand and water in it i decided to not only add the lockers but rebuild the 3rd member. There is a local shop that will do the work if i bring them both 3rd members but i have to bring the parts too. I was wondering what gears i should go with if i plan on running the stock 1.3 with 35 inch tires? The biggest ive seen is like 5.38s. Also where can i get the rebuild kit for the 3rd? And would that rebuild kit come with the pinion gear nut as i messed the threads up taking it apart. Also while i am in there should i add anything to make it stronger? Ive got just the stock axles. Any help would be much appreciated as this is my first go at this.....
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35's on stock axles is asking for trouble save your money for Toyota axles but if you want to gear then 5.12 gears are cheep and easy to find but you will need to re-gear the t-case too
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I agree with fordguy79 that's a lot of tire for Zuk but if you do it and it works cool. As for the nut when you get rebuild kits you get a new nut too it has to be replaced because you have to put the indent in the nut to lock it in to place in the shaft.
some sites to look at for the kit
http://www.roadlessgear.com/page/RGL/PROD/DD/YGA101 (http://www.roadlessgear.com/page/RGL/PROD/DD/YGA101)
http://www.rocky-road.com/samurai-differential.html (http://www.rocky-road.com/samurai-differential.html)
http://www.petroworks.com/drivetrain-differentials.php (http://www.petroworks.com/drivetrain-differentials.php)
http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/index.php/suzuki/samurai/differentials/suzuki-samurai-sidekick-differential-master-rebuild-install-kits.html (http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/index.php/suzuki/samurai/differentials/suzuki-samurai-sidekick-differential-master-rebuild-install-kits.html)
http://www.trail-gear.com/samurai-ring-and-pinion-gears (http://www.trail-gear.com/samurai-ring-and-pinion-gears)
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Thanks guy! Why would i need to change the tcase gears if i am changing both dif gears? I dont quite understand......
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To turn that large of a tire you need more help from the T-case gearing, diff gears are just not enough for a stock 1.3 running that big of a tire. Even if you do swap the axles you should help that T-case with lower gearing. You have to remember that an engine has a certain area of RPM that it functions best at and you want to gear it so that you stay in that target area. The diff gears on the market don't go low enough to do it alone and you could burn your clutch out, if it does hook up you will just bog down the engine to much to get the needed power to spin the tires.
Also I don't know where you live or what you will be doing with your Zuk but if you ever drive it on road you need the gears for road speeds and if in snow or mud you need to have the power to spin the tires clean once in a while.
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William
You need a 26 spline front 3rd from a 96 Kick for the rear and have to add cans.
For the front 3rd you will need a 22 spline front 3rd from a late model Kick as depicted below ....
Here is a list to help you find the models with the correct splines and gears.
89 2dr 1.3L carb 5speed man. 5.625
89-95 2dr 1,6L TBI 5speed man. 5.125
89-95 2dr 1,6L TBI 3speed auto. 4.625
91 4dr 1.6L TBI 3speed auto. 4.625
91 4dr 1.6L TBI 5speed man. 5.375
92-98 4dr 1.6L MPFI 5speed man. 5.125
92-98 4dr 1.6L MPFI 3speed auto. 4.30
92-98 4dr 1.6L MPFI 4speed auto. 5.125
94-98 2dr 1.6L MPFI 5speed man. 5.125
94-98 2dr 1.6L MPFI 3speed auto. 4.30
94-98 2dr 1.6L MPFI 4speed auto. 5.125
96-98 X90 1.6L MPFI auto or man. 4.625
4.625 gears have an 8/37 tooth count
4.30 gears have an 10/43 tooth count
5.125 gears have an 8/41 tooth count
5.375 gears have an 8/43 tooth count
5.625 gears have an 8/45 tooth count
You don't have to buy the transfer case gears but they are the best bang for the buck. I just bought a 6:5:1 with an updated rear output shaft for mine yesterday.
This should give me the low end grunt I wanted and return the highway speed to 65 -70 if I chose to run the 34's down the highway that fast.
I'm gonna run it with the stock gears 1st and see how it goes. If I want a lil more grunt I will change to the 5:12's. I found a set in a U Pull It for $60.00 a piece they are 96 & 94 front 3rds.
Here is a good read article about 3rds and transfer case gearing. Keep in mind it is kinda written as a CYA but the meat of the article pretty much holds true...
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60:gears&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60:gears&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60)
Here is an article that will help you better understand what you need for your 3rds...
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60:gears&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60:gears&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60)
Miss Me Yet..... :laugh: Tux...
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Help me out here ...I'm trying to understand why any one would want 35s on a Samurai in the first place.
But if you must...All of the above advise will work but you will still be at the MAX LOAD of these axles.
You will need 12" of proper lift just to keep from stuffing the tires Unless you dove tail the hell out of the Sammy.
So plan on 4 link, re gear everything Transfer case and axles. New transfercase mount, tranny straps , Drive lines , etc. etc.
If your gonna spend that kind of cash I recommend 44s front and rear. Curry axles, or the equivalent, and a v6, tranny (a 176 would do fine, a transfercase (D-18/ D 20/ or D-300) That way you will have enough grunt to turn the massive amount of rotating mass that the 35s require.
I'm running 33x12.50x15s with 7" of lift and am able to stuff them at will now.......
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h423/Boxcar2/001-3.jpg)
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Lol.... I remember when my dad asked me that question about 32's under a Dodge Power Wagon.... my answer was because I wanted too.
Why would you want to run 33"s under your instead of 30's? 30's are big enuff....
I run 34's under mine and love em. I wouldn't trade em for anything less. It's a matter of preference. It's a matter of what a person wants their rig to be. It's a matter of what you want to do withit and what you expect from it.
It's not really a matter for other folks to question why. We should be here to help and add insight on how to get someone to where they want to be.
Think outside the box...... Dare To Be different..... ;)
By the way.... I really like your ride! pretty Sweet!!!
Just My Opinion... Tux...
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You need a 26 spline front 3rd from a 96 Kick for the rear and have to add cans.
For the front 3rd you will need a 22 spline front 3rd from a late model Kick
If he is having just the gears put in samurai thirds, it makes no difference if the trackick thirds are 22 or 26 spline (the samurai carrier and samurai sidegears will be used).
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Ranger your right.... Doughboy gave William some good link info earlier.... I had talked to William before in previous emails about the 3rds and just went and posted the info I had in case others were looking.
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Boxcar did you make your cage or have it made? And are you able to get your top of easily?
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Help me out here ...I'm trying to understand why any one would want 35s on a Samurai in the first place.
But if you must...All of the above advise will work but you will still be at the MAX LOAD of these axles.
You will need 12" of proper lift just to keep from stuffing the tires Unless you dove tail the hell out of the Sammy.
I'm running 33x12.50x15s with 7" of lift and am able to stuff them at will now.......
([url]http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h423/Boxcar2/001-3.jpg[/url])
I can clear 37" tires with only 5" of lift. I do have the fenders trimmed up a bit though. :D As for why run 35's, it's because I have run into a few tire size obstacles that simple need larger tires to climb up. So go bigger to get over them. :D
That being said, I am in the process of building a Tracker on 33's. Just not doing rocks as much as I used to.
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Not trying to hijack this thread ....Yes I built it , and yes the top slides out the back....
Clearing and being able to wheel the tires without stuffing them ( making contact with the fenders springs and frame) are two different stories....
I think at this point pictures are required....
I get the "cause I want them" statement.... We used to say " Go big or go home " I'm allot older and wiser now...
Just trying to save him some HUGE $$$$$$$$.
After 35 years in the business I've built everything from monster trucks to rock buggies... And have come to the conclusion that
If you want BIG start BIG....Boxcar... Owner ----Resurrection Iron Works.
PS: I love the Sammy format . That's why I own one..And spent the time and money to build one. But it's not the only rig I wheel..
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Clearing and being able to wheel the tires without stuffing them ( making contact with the fenders springs and frame) are two different stories....
I think at this point pictures are required....
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ueGNhR017sM/TwpqK_Hyr8I/AAAAAAAAENk/Q4H0useiPGw/s512/IMG_20120107_210750.jpg)
When borrowing Moonzuki's tires with clearance to the fenders with RUF and SPOA in front and 4-link rear. :D I can even take another 2" out of the front fenders if I need the space, just bringing the outside of the fenders even with the inner fenderwell. Moonzuki fits them without the fender trimming on his fully linked SJ.
That being said, for a lot of people 31" tires are the breaking point and 33" tires are hard to keep axles together with. With the chromoly front axles you should be able to run 35" tires without worry, but for the rear the only real option is custom rear axles. At that point, as others have pointed out, it might be better to just buy some different axles and build them up from the start so your not committed to the SJ drive-train. But if you can get an ARB cheap from someone else who upgraded, it's hard to walk away from them. :)
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You will need another 2" ++ out of the fenders for Clarence. Especially SPOAd and linked (big articulation)
Great Sammy and a nice shop to build in ..Me likey...
We run chrome molly axles, trusses and 512s when setting a Sammy up for 33s.
Like I sed earlyer ...Just whip out that wallet....Boxcar...
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oh wow drone i dont ever have pic. of my tires. yours sure looks good though!
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oh wow drone i dont ever have pic. of my tires. yours sure looks good though!
You like them? I was thinking of picking them back up since they look so good. :D
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I run 35" with a 1,6 litre and a 5:1 t-case, stock axles and diffs, rear locker. 2 years and no broken axles yet, even done 5 competitions with that setup. But mostly forest terrain.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee14/monkysa2/challenge21-5-11/P5210612_704x528.jpg)
And a friend is running 34" swampers with stock 1,3 and a 6:1 t-case.
Both trucks running SPOA with RUF.
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Very nice looking ride Mr. Hawk.... It appears that we have similar taste.... ;)
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mrhawk
I was going to say that it looks like similar terrain, which it is, but it seems I would have been half a world off. You would feel right at home in the Pacific North West. Nice rig.
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Yup, my thread was jacked. Thanks for those answering my questions. Gears and rebuild kits should be in tom so hopefully i will be putting it back together and testing the waters by next weekend. Excited to see how much better it pulls with the lockers and new gears on 31s.
Oh some one was asking what i would be using this for. I live in Louisiana and do creek riding(only sand) and some bayous(mud). Im thinking maybe i should go with 33s and not 35 to start.
Got the arb snorkel and 6 inch bushwacker flares on while it was down and they look great! Next is a custom rear rack above the back seat.
I was thinking of buying this but was wondering if any of you have any reviews..... http://www.amazon.com/Trail-Can-Utility-Tool-Box/dp/B0054PAAWE (http://www.amazon.com/Trail-Can-Utility-Tool-Box/dp/B0054PAAWE)
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Yup, my thread was jacked. Thanks for those answering my questions. Gears and rebuild kits should be in tom so hopefully i will be putting it back together and testing the waters by next weekend. Excited to see how much better it pulls with the lockers and new gears on 31s.
Oh some one was asking what i would be using this for. I live in Louisiana and do creek riding(only sand) and some bayous(mud). Im thinking maybe i should go with 33s and not 35 to start.
Got the arb snorkel and 6 inch bushwacker flares on while it was down and they look great! Next is a custom rear rack above the back seat.
I was thinking of buying this but was wondering if any of you have any reviews..... [url]http://www.amazon.com/Trail-Can-Utility-Tool-Box/dp/B0054PAAWE[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/Trail-Can-Utility-Tool-Box/dp/B0054PAAWE[/url])
Yea, threads tend to wander sometimes. :)
I have read about that piece of kit in a few magazines, everyone agrees they look cool. Not sure how well they work but it should be easy to mount. Before picking the next set of tires I would run on the 31's a bit and see how much more clearance you need.
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Whoever had this thing before me put it up pretty high. Might upload some pics so yall can tell me what was done to get it to this height. Def no body lift, spring over axle prob, not sure what else. 33s should be no problem at all, 31s on it now look way small. Think 35s would look even better now that ive seen mrhawks! Thanks for the pics and info man, thanks everyone! Just building this thing on a budget sucks! My carport is a mess right now.
drone, i could have made one but am really happy with the way it looks. Think it cost me 380ish but im happy. Waiting on a factory air box on ebay to come in and it should seal up pretty good!
Oh, mrhawk. What offset rims are you running? and 35x what? and did you have to used spacers?....... Your winch mount looks so much cleaner than mine too. Any suggestions on what tires i should run if im doing the same type stuff as you? Evenyone i talk to says boggers.....
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this is it a month or so after i got it running. Yes i know the tractor tires are on backwards :)~ they are for sale if anyone wants them. 100 bucks all 4. they are old! also have the stock fender flares if anyone wants them. if not i will trash them soon.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m577/williamb81/samurari.jpg)
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rear third member, the pinion seal looked ok. will be doing the axles bearing and seals as well. hope that fixed this problem. No telling how long they were running it like this
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m577/williamb81/thirdmember.jpg)
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note the drivers side mirror hanging. if some one has an extra mount they would sell me it would be much appreciated!
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m577/williamb81/Mobile%20Uploads/mms_img65138.jpg)
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i didnt think the snorkel and flare would both fit but i made it work.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m577/williamb81/Mobile%20Uploads/mms_img65140.jpg)
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Burks Bayou (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiKz28TLvdc#ws)
my bayou.....
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Whoever had this thing before me put it up pretty high.
Oh, mrhawk. What offset rims are you running? and 35x what? and did you have to used spacers?....... Your winch mount looks so much cleaner than mine too. Any suggestions on what tires i should run if im doing the same type stuff as you? Evenyone i talk to says boggers.....
Looks like yours has 3" springs ontop of that spring over.
tires are 35x12,5-15". The wheels are old whitespokes 8" with -19mm offset (not sure what backspace that is, probably about 3,5") added beadlocks to them so they are about 9" wide now. I have spacers, but I have the narrow track axles, will be goring to regular samurai axles and ditch the spacers.
I like to run not too of an aggressive tread on my truck, these "float" ontop allot of soft stuff and not just dig holes. But my friend runs an almost identical samurai to mine with the 34x10,5-15" swamper LTBs, great size for a samurai in my opinion and they dig very nice in mud.
My front bumper/winchmount is homebuilt and very simple. Here is an older pic, it's missing the black painted diamond plate that sits ontop of the sides in this pic.
(http://www.forumbilder.se/images/eb4201090635P8390.jpg)
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By the looks of that diff, I'd be looking at extending your vents... Looks like there gobbling water.
Great Vidio . You need a swamp buggy..Boxcar...
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I agree with Boxcar!!! I have my front vent tube extended up to the back of the firewall. My rear vent tube runs up inside the back of the Sammi and ends behind the inner gas filler hose cover.
gear oil / grease turns that milky baby poop color when water it becomes saturated with water. If your gonna run the backwater you should consider sealing the dipstick tube off, silicone the distributor cap, spray the plugwires with s silicone spray. Spray the electric connections with a silicone spray or coate the ends with dielectric grease.
Then there is the gas tank / skid plate and the brakes. Both of these are places that hide the mud and goo and can cause you grief if you don't do regular maintenance to clean them out.
Quite a few folks overlook the skidplate but if you don't keep the mud out then it continues to keep the tank wet and rust begins to rot it out. (especially where the tank straps are).
Just some additional food for thought.....
Tux...
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Lockers front and rear, 538 gears, snorkeled, fender flares, windows, new electrical, 8k winch, new transfer case, 35 inch tires...
I know its not much but have to thank the members on here and the guys at lowrange, hawks, etc. Without yall it would have been much more frustrating than it was ;)~
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m577/williamb81/sami35s.jpg)
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Looks Good William!!!
How does it perform now? Happy / Unhappy? Any, if I had it to do over again thoughts?
Tux...
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I got done with it last night. Just trying to break in everything slowly. I will def get back with ya as soon as i put it to the test. I am not familiar with webber carbs and after adding the snorkel will have to adjust the carb. Have some noise coming from the tcase at high speed when i push in the clutch to switch gears. Ill get it worked out this week and put it in our local mud holes this weekend or next.
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Verrrrrrrry cool.......Boxcar...
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Ok couldnt help myself, put it in the mud tonight and it did great. Power is defiantly lacking but i knew that, It never got stuck and thats all i could ask out of it at this point.
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If you didn't get stuck then you have enough power. :D
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Just done with fine tuning the carb, and set the timing. Im liking this little 1.3 now.
Just an fyi to anyone wanting to run 35s. I tore one of my new rear tires up trying to climb over a 2.5 foot downed tree. I went at an angle and the rear drivers side tire was cut 5 inches in the inside wall b/c i didnt remove the rear bump stops(i think) that are sitting right above the tire attached to frame.
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How much off-set are you running on your wheels?
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LOL.... same thing I asked him Drone. Followed up by you may want to either get wider rims or wheel spacers.
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I got 2 inch spacers on the way.....
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That will kick them out a ways. :)
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slow and steady (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyvQ8QRPU_8#ws)
breaking it in....
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(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m577/williamb81/zukilights.jpg)