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ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: xcabo on November 25, 2011, 05:31:12 PM
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Hello folks,
I had read I guess every post I found related to the theme of actuator on front diff, thanks guys to all the post that are so helpful. My problem is the common "blinking 4WD".
This is IMHO the procedure, my apologies if I did a mistake on something and asking for help to correct it.
I followed a lot of good guys posts:
PUMP. The hope step.
- Checked by ear if the pump works, if not, check everything related with wires, connecting directly to battery on red and black wires.
- The pump working must stop when we tapped with a finger the air out. At that moment the pink wire must give you around 12v.
- Check the pressure, which must be qround 5 psi. I couldn't find a low pressure gauge, so I used a digital air gauge with a connector which is used to inflate baloons directly on the pump.
AIR LINES. The easy step.
- Check for leaks on all the line.
- Check if the line circuit is free just blowing inthere.
- Connecting to pump and unplug the line from diff and tapping with the finger, again, the pump must stop.
DIFFERENTIAL. The scare step.
- Raise one tire and jack to check for locking.
- With an air compressor, setting to blow around 6psi, Put air inside through the tube on diff... taking a lot of care not to exceed to 6 psi, try to move the tire on air with your hand and all of your hope, the tire on air must be locked at that point. if not, something is wrong with the diaphragm inside.
Well, Actually I'm stopped on the scare step. I asumed my problem is with the famous diaphragm. the most affordable solution for this problem is trying to left the actuator active, I meant compressed expanded, and then put manual hubs.
I know one of the optios is using zip ties, but, I'm not a mechanic guy, so, I will have to pay for the labor (which is expensive locally) so I just can't give me the possibility to expermiment with it and if somethng went wrong on a certain moment pay again to replace the zip ties.
So, which other options do I have to do that? Could I use sstainless steel screws and nylon nuts to keep compressed expanded the diaphragm?
What do you recommends me?
Again, thanks in advance for your help.
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The diaphragm is a "doughnut" which expands under pressure. So you don't want to compress it. If you don't want to use zip ties you need something stronger to keep apart the surfaces the diaphragm sits between. I don't know if a large hose clip could fit in there. Trouble is, it's a rotating part, and you don't want anything heavy and unbalanced.
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The diaphragm is a "doughnut" which expands under pressure. So you don't want to compress it. If you don't want to use zip ties you need something stronger to keep apart the surfaces the diaphragm sits between. I don't know if a large hose clip could fit in there. Trouble is, it's a rotating part, and you don't want anything heavy and unbalanced.
IanL, My bad you're right, thank you. (I already edited the original post to correct it) I have to left the diaphragm expanded. I have to find the way to leave it on that position. Instead of that, is there any way to buy the diaphragm from suzuki dealer? I couldn't find the part number on part's list.
Cheers
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It's Suzuki Part 27750-67D01 Actuator Assembly.
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It's Suzuki Part 27750-67D01 Actuator Assembly.
Great IanL! I appreciate it. With that part name I could get the part number from Chevrolet, it seems is 91176679. Although Its price is the same as a pair of Warn hubs...mmmm.... I rather the permanently activation way of the actuator.
Still looking for opninions on what could I use to maintain expanded the actuator.
Cheers
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I guess the answer is to remove the assembly and extract the actuator (you would need to do that anyway to fit a new one). Then turn a piece of billet aluminium to the same size, but as thick as the actuator when it is expanded, and fit that.
Another way could be to force epoxy resin into the actuator under pressure, and keep the pressure on till it sets - you should end up with a solid, expanded actuator. I expect you would need special tools to do that.
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The resin sounds like a pretty good idea.
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Or... pull the front diff.... take it to an experienced welder, slide the metal tab over to the ring gear about a 1/4" and have him tac weld it into position. If your pump is bad you will probably still get the flashing light but your front end will be locked up... as in open diff front wheel drive. If your actuator is bad.... pull the hose and insert a golf tee into the pump line so the pump 'thinks' the actuator is holding pressure. Then plug the line into your diff.
Pros: you won't have to pay someone to install your new actuator and re-install your gear sets.
the air actuator won't rupture anymore
you can use the money for the air actuator to buy Warn hubs
when unlocked your CVs won't be turning and wearing your axle housing seal lips
Cons: If you decide to reverse the process, you will have to grind off the tac welds
you will want to install some WARN hubs so you can lock and unlock your axles
it is not an 'orthodox' repair/modification and may impact the resale/value of your truck
I tried to load a pic of the tac welds and couldn't for some reason (?). The pics I wanted to load are down towards the bottom of this thread (below link). I had my welder place a small tac weld at each of the indents on the diff.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-(gen-2-platform)-1999-2005/suspension-upgrade-33541/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-(gen-2-platform)-1999-2005/suspension-upgrade-33541/)
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If you have "fixed" the actuator and need to fix the 4WD light you can just wire it directly to the 4WD switch on the transfer case - there is an orange/black wire coming out of the cluster that when grounded will turn the light on - wire it to the black/orange wire on the transfer case switch.
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Or... pull the front diff.... take it to an experienced welder, slide the metal tab over to the ring gear about a 1/4" and have him tac weld it into position. If your pump is bad you will probably still get the flashing light but your front end will be locked up... as in open diff front wheel drive. If your actuator is bad.... pull the hose and insert a golf tee into the pump line so the pump 'thinks' the actuator is holding pressure. Then plug the line into your diff.
Pros: you won't have to pay someone to install your new actuator and re-install your gear sets.
the air actuator won't rupture anymore
you can use the money for the air actuator to buy Warn hubs
when unlocked your CVs won't be turning and wearing your axle housing seal lips
Cons: If you decide to reverse the process, you will have to grind off the tac welds
you will want to install some WARN hubs so you can lock and unlock your axles
it is not an 'orthodox' repair/modification and may impact the resale/value of your truck
I tried to load a pic of the tac welds and couldn't for some reason (?). The pics I wanted to load are down towards the bottom of this thread (below link). I had my welder place a small tac weld at each of the indents on the diff.
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-(gen-2-platform)-1999-2005/suspension-upgrade-33541/[/url] ([url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-(gen-2-platform)-1999-2005/suspension-upgrade-33541/[/url])
nprecon, Thanks a lot for the detailed information, yes, I took the desition for the con's you mentioned, together with thinking on involving into a kind of problem with some of the axle during a trip, I would unlock the hubs and could come back at 2WD.
I will do the job during the week and I will let you know what happened guys.
I looked the pictures you mentioned, I figured out how to do it.
Cheers
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I guess the answer is to remove the assembly and extract the actuator (you would need to do that anyway to fit a new one). Then turn a piece of billet aluminium to the same size, but as thick as the actuator when it is expanded, and fit that.
Another way could be to force epoxy resin into the actuator under pressure, and keep the pressure on till it sets - you should end up with a solid, expanded actuator. I expect you would need special tools to do that.
That's a good idea IanL, as you mentioned once removed the actuator I will check the option of alluminum billet with a "machinary" (sorry if the word is incorrect, I meant a kind of "steel lathe operator") welding is the other good option, I will see once the diff is out an opened.
Cheers
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If you have "fixed" the actuator and need to fix the 4WD light you can just wire it directly to the 4WD switch on the transfer case - there is an orange/black wire coming out of the cluster that when grounded will turn the light on - wire it to the black/orange wire on the transfer case switch.
About the 4WD light, I was thinking on just unplug the air pump, and make a loop with the red and pink wire from the plug, if I'm right, the PCM receives the pressurized signal correct when the pink wire receives the + from the red wire when the pressure switch is pressed for the pressure mechanism inside the pump. That way the pump won't be neccesary for the circuit. Inside the pump there is a microwitch that is pressed by a mechanism with a little piston pointing directly to the microswitch.
Thanks guys for the help.
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Doing that will leave the pump motor, relay, etc all in circuit, for no benefit. Better to unplug the controller behind the dash, and loop the Orange/black to the Black/orange in the harness connector. That will connect the ground from the TC switch to the 4WD lamp when the shifter is in 4WD, and remove the pump and the controller from the circuit.
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Uhhh - not all GVs have a stand alone 4WD controller - later production have it built into the ECU
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Yes, you're right, and of course I was wrong about leaving the pump in circuit - it won't be if it's unplugged :-[
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Thank you guys for your support and help.
I'm going to drop the truck today and I will let you know the results.
Cheers
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An Update...
The last friday was pull off the diff, after opening I tried to expand the diaphragm with the actuator pump with no luck...tried with an air compressor with around 8 psi... and I could heard a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz at one place of the diaphragm, let me tell you I felt kind of relaxed, because at least I had found the cause of no locking the diff.
The next day I went to a weld shop, and with the help of nprecon who gave me all the details and instructions on how to do it, the diaphargm was welded on a few minutes.
I just got back the tracker, running directly from the shop I went to a close zone to test the 4WD....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... what a difference! I felt so happy when finally I see it working!!!
I just ordered the manual hubs to be installed on a few days more, but... today...I have a 4x4!
Thank you guys for the great help!
Cheers
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Glad it worked for you, xcabo. Taking the 'air' out of the equation is peace of mind. Things can still go wrong... however bladders leaking air and air pumps rupturing their diaphragms won't be one of them.
I got the idea for physically locking the actuator ring in place here on the forum (don't recall his name but he is up in Canada... rally-t?? who was a mechanic and liked to run road rally races in the snow ) when he used zip ties on his diff. Then SHADOW, here on the forum, tac welded his diff and posted up how he did it. I liked the tac weld approach so I went with that option. SHADOW provided me additional information details, also. That's how the forum works. Guys and gals sharing ideas and fixes. Lots of them are more cost effective than the 'factory solution'. There are a million of them and probably another million waiting to be posted. Its all good.
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Did this repair to mine more than a year ago.
I Gently pushed the actuator over with a couple screw drivers to engage the axle lock, then ran a bead of weld in the 4 recessed parts of the gear. The axle lock has alot of material to weld to so you can get good heat penetration.
Installed new seals, axle support bushing, axles and manual hubs (cost was still lower than repairing the flawed compressor system). I have pounded the crap out of mine in mud and snow and has performed flawless for over a year. The only thing I have done since is change the diff fluid periodically. But dont forget to jack up the front of the vehicle and get at least 1 litre of diff fluid in there.
Don't know why one would use zipties, other than the fact that welding it is a permanent fix, but that's a good thing to me.
A good weld is not gonna break like a ziptie.