ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: MEDEL514 on August 31, 2011, 03:05:17 PM
-
Need help with brake upgrade. I got a pair of rotors, calipers and brackets from a 1997 4-dr 4x4 Suzuki Vitara, and I want to put them on a 90 2-dr 4x4 Geo Tracker. When I went to mount everything, the new vented rotor doesn't align properly to the bracket and rubs in the inner disc. Is there a part that I'm missing for this mod?
The Vitara that I pulled them off has a 'J' vin number, so it came from Japan. It looks like the extra disc on the vented rotor (vs. the stock single disc, non-vented rotor) is what is out of center. Would I have to get a hub from a 4-dr Sidekic/Tracker/Vitara to center the disc to the bracket?
-
I did the same mod to my 2 door, but I purchased new parts, calipers, and rotors and they bolted right on without a problem. I did get them for the same year but a 4 door, not that it matters. I think they should fit up to 98. Did you by chance pick a set off a Sport model ? they are quirky and may be different.
-
I'm not sure if it was a sport, but it could be, it did have the fender flares and a little mnore plastics on it, and it was a 4 door too. So you got 97 4 door brakes and they bolted right up? ok, maybe it's just the brackest that are causing the problem. I'll have to see if I can find brackets from a non-sport modle and see if it lines up. fingers crossed!
-
vented brakes? im thinking you did get stuff off a 4 door sport. i dont recall the 4 door (standard)ever having a vented disc
-
I just picked up my 4dr brakes from NAPA, they indeed have vented rotors. Mine fit fine, the brackets are different between the 2dr's calipers and the 4dr caplipers, and the brakes are different part numbers for the sport.
-
If you pulled them from a 4-door with larger flares it was a Sport. You need to get them from a standard 4-door.
-
vented brakes? im thinking you did get stuff off a 4 door sport. i dont recall the 4 door (standard)ever having a vented disc
I thought that all 4-dr models had vented discs, I have some from a 1992 on my SWB.
I didn't have any trouble mounting the discs but you need to bend back or cut the shield on the rear or it will rub. You also need the LWB calipers because the discs are wider.
-
I just finished bleeding the new 4dr brakes and bedding the pads and rotors. WOW, what a difference! night and day better braking. I took a ride down the shortcut off the mtn, it is STEEP and the stockies would never have lasted before getting to the bottom, no problems whatsoever with these brakes!
-
When I did my 4 door rotor and caliper swap everything bolted right on, no bending of backing plates or cutting of anything. If you really want to feel an improvement swap to discs in the back too, and swap to a 4 door master cylinder while your at it. Nice. ;)
-
I used the four door drums in the rear of mine to maintain the brake balance. I had a disc conversion once but took it off because I couldn't get the park brake to work effectively.
-
So the first set of calipers must have been from a Sport model. I have a set of calipers from a non-sport model now and they fit great and align perfectly with the 4-door's ventilated rotors. the braking still hasn't improved as much as i was hoping for, i think I'm going to get the 4-door's master cylinder and install it to match up to the front brakes now. hopefully that will give me more aggressive stopping power.
Is there another master cylinder that i can get that would be better than the OEM master cylinder from the 97 4-door? maybe a ZR2 master Cylinder?
-
Does your 2 door have a load balancing valve near the upper link in the rear? I had left it disconnected when I did my lift and the rears had very little braking action, I simply pulled the spring down and attached it to the frame so the rears get full braking pressure.
-
Does your 2 door have a load balancing valve near the upper link in the rear? I had left it disconnected when I did my lift and the rears had very little braking action, I simply pulled the spring down and attached it to the frame so the rears get full braking pressure.
That sounds backwards to me!
-
yeah, I wouldn't want full breaking on the rear, that's just asking for an unexpected spin out! Your rears should always be at 50% power of the fronts, just like how you're supposed to break on a motorcycle.
-
Your rears should always be at 50% power of the fronts, just like how you're supposed to break on a motorcycle.
If that were true, why would so many manufacturers (Suzuki included) fit an expensive load sensing proportioning valve? You can achieve 50% proportioning by simply selecting the appropriate sized master cylinder & wheel cylinders.
For optimum brake performance, the work done by the rear brakes will vary with the load in the vehicle, more load, more rear braking; less load, less rear braking - that's the reason a load sensing valve is fitted.
-
That sounds backwards to me!
It's correct - the LSPV senses the load based on how close the axle is to the frame, more load moves the frame down whilst the axle stays at the same height - the LSPV is attached to the frame, the spring is attached to the axle, pulling the spring down makes the LSPV think there is less load.
Also - with a front brake upgrade, you'd need to increase rear braking effort to keep the brake propotioning balanced - increasing the tension on the spring does that.
It would have been preferrable if he had not defeated the load sensing, but ...
-
yeah, I wouldn't want full breaking on the rear, that's just asking for an unexpected spin out! Your rears should always be at 50% power of the fronts, just like how you're supposed to break on a motorcycle.
That is full braking power as regulated by the proportioning valve, the load sensing valve is in addition to a normal braking system.
And the rear braking power is NOT 50% of the fronts, every vehicle has a different % value based upon weight, wheelbase, size of rear brakes, etc, different than a bikes divorced braking system.
Since attaching the Load sensing valve to the frame to attain full braking potential(key word), the brakes are hands down better and the rear has never kicked out at all, rain, snow or ice any more than stock.
-
I know what the LSPV does, but I didn't feel the need to conduct a seminar on breaking.
Streaching that spring down on the LSPV defeats the purpose of the LSPV. With the streached spring, the LSPV will not give the proper balance of pressure to the rear brakes. The rears may be closer to 0% if it's streached to max while sitting level. The LSPV also reduces rear brake pressure during extreme breaking, when you slam your brakes and the front end squats and the rear lifts, the rear brakes are also loosing just enough pressure to prevent the rear wheels from locking up. Just like when you lower a vehicle, you should adjust the LSPV maintain the proper balance, the same is true when you lift a vehicle.
-
The LSPV works in the reverse, as the suspension squats the valve is pulled down, it mounts in front of the crossmember with a arm coming off the third link towards the front beyond the pivot point.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_1240.jpg)
My lift kits upper third link does not have any provision for the arm.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_1420.jpg)
-
ahh I did visualize it backwards. My Tracker is on the other side of the pond so I couldn't just crawl up under and look. So now your rear brakes are getting full braking power all the time? well, I guess all is better than nothing...
-
...the braking still hasn't improved as much as i was hoping for, i think I'm going to get the 4-door's master cylinder and install it to match up to the front brakes now. hopefully that will give me more aggressive stopping power.
Is there another master cylinder that i can get that would be better than the OEM master cylinder from the 97 4-door? maybe a ZR2 master Cylinder?
?
-
For optimum brake performance, the work done by the rear brakes will vary with the load in the vehicle, more load, more rear braking; less load, less rear braking - that's the reason a load sensing valve is fitted.
Mine was never fitted with an LSPV.
-
I plan on setting the lever to be within the resting specs, but inoperative, tomorrow, what I should have done earlier but was lazy, LOL.