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ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: Blue Meanie on January 11, 2010, 12:57:30 PM
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Hi!
I have a 2000 4x4 Tracker 2.0L w auto, 110,000 miles. Bought it used with 60,000 miles.
It already has the 1st gen manual locking hubs and 235/75 15 General Grabber AT2 tires.
I plan on getting Jeff's 2" lift spacer kit.
This is my DD, if it ain't running, I'm bumming rides.
So I'd prefer for the Blue Meanie to go together first shot without trips to the auto parts store.
2 quick Q's about stuff left unmentioned and unclear;
I already ordered 1991 Cavalier rear shocks and now, just re-reading an earlier post by bzzr2,
I noticed he casually mentions offhand about replacing the lower mount bolts with thinner ones! :o
WHAT!?! Do they fit or don't they? What parts do I need if they don't?
Is welding required? If yes, I'm stuffed.
Here's the old post on Cavalier shocks
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-%28gen-2-platform%29-1999-2005/cavalier-rear-shocks/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-%28gen-2-platform%29-1999-2005/cavalier-rear-shocks/)
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With 110K, I'm replacing the original struts. The rear shocks are already dead.
Should I also replace the upper strut bearing or anything else that's coming out while it's being lifted?
I can't find a single topic about it, yet the idea of a rubber part lasting forever seems,... odd.
This is my first long term Suzuki and the only vehicle I've ever owned that's gone 50K with just regular maintenance.
Not a single repair, ( knock on wood).
So I'm starting to wonder when the parts bill comes due.
The Blue Meanie:
(http://i14.tinypic.com/4kx7kvn.jpg)
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Can't help you with the Cavalier shock question (I didn't use them, I used Crown Vic shocks) but I can tell you if the struts on your truck are the same OEMs when new you may have a hell of a time getting your strut shafts out of the strut mounts. On two trucks I had one strut frozen on the strut mount and on the other truck I had a bad strut mount. The point of both stories is one strut mount had to be replaced on each truck (each done at different times) and the local parts store DIDN'T have the correct strut in stock until the next day. So... consider getting your hands on at least one strut mount before you tear your truck down for the lift install. New... around here they cost about $55 bucks. A used one from a pick-n-pull... I have no idea. Oh... byt the way, that is a very clean looking little rag-top you have and it ought to look MORE better with a lift and some more meat under it.
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Thanks for the warning on the strut mount.
I put some penetrating oil on all the bolts yesterday, I'll keep soaking them this week.
I got the 235's on the advice posted here and I'm glad I followed it.
My DD commute is over 60 miles round trip and has a lot of stop and go. No highway driving.
The acceleration is as poor as I can tolerate, if the tires were any bigger, I'd have to swap out the 5.12 gears.
AFAIKT the 5.38 and 5.62 gear sets are rare and expensive.
I'm still tempted to get a 5.38 set for these tires.
5.83s, lockers, 31" tires and 2" body lift next time. ;)
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dont waste money on gears until you actually buy big tires. the tires i run are 31.5inches tall and i'm on stock gearing, up to 100km'h people say they are surprised how well it runs and ask what i've done to the power. nothing, it's slow! but not that bad for what it is. as for the cavalier shocks you will need to get a new, thinner bolt for the bottom mount is all. the thing here is i run more lift in the back than jeff's kit provides, i'm running around 3inches of rear suspension lift and also have a bumpstop spacer back there. the way i have my shock mounted is in it's lowest to the body possible way which is done by placing the rubber cushions/spacers on the bottom of the mount and none on the top, not a big difference but anything helps. if i didn't run the bumpstop spacer back there i'd be close to losing a coil on full droop. pay attention to your brake lines too, mine had to be let out of it's mount or would have ripped off.
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After much research, I went with mid 90's mustang rear shocks on mine. My buddy (a mechanic) was able to install them with no issues. They ride nice... :) One thing I didn't realize, be prepared to need camber adjustment after your spacer lift. My front camber was all screwed up after the lift. Many alignment shops will tell you that the castor/camber can't be adjusted on the trackers. It can, you just need special bolts installed. Many shops will tell you that these bolts don't exist. They do, I am riding around on them now. I was fortunate enough to find an alignment shop near me that knew exactly what I needed, and they didn't charge me an arm and a leg for it. Good luck with your project. These are fun little trucks, but there is a pathetically small aftermarket for them.
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camber bolts or slotting the strut holes works well also, some people don't like this but that's just their opinion. mechanicall it works perfectly fine. i have beat my tracker for a few years like this with no problems.
for shocks, the lengths go short - stock - a bit longer - crown vic - a bit longer than crown vic is mustang - another inch longer or more are the cavaliers... mustang is the only direct bolt in that i am aware of.
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Thanks for all the extra tips.
I'll hunt around for the cam bolt locally and on line.
I ordered the lift kit from Jeff today.
Also picked up the cavalier shocks, correct bolts and regular struts from the local NAPA.
For some reason i thought the Vit/Track lower shock mount used a stud like the Samurai.
That's why I was so concerned. :-[
What do you guys think of the Daystar EVS bump stops?
I'm thinking of using them on both the shocks and struts.
bzzr2, the NAPA online site lists the length, extended and compressed, plus the mounting size/type for all shocks.
The bad part is you have to go through them one at time.
Stock Tracker is:
extended: 18.250
compressed: 12.125
working length: 6.125
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95 mustang:
19.125
14.5
4.625
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91 Cavalier:
22.125
13.125
9.00 :-*
By the looks of it, the 91 Cav is almost perfect.
The 1" longer compressed length is moot with bigger tires if you don't have a body lift or chopped wheel wells.
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What is the part number for the Cav. shocks? I want to add it to my list.
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ya, i'm more of a go into the store and ask for 5 different shocks and line em up guy. i'm curious as to how you will find the ride in the back with these shocks and your stock springs with spacers. i run XL7 rear coils which are significantly stiffer and provide some lift, but the cavalier shocks are quite soft and sometimes i get a real good bounce back there on the road. off road they are great, wish i had a pic at full extension to post up but i really don't take many pics these days. another shock that may be worth looking into are the mid-late 80's toyota supra rears, spoke to a couple people running them in their gen 1 kicks. somebody had also used some toyota 4runner rears on a 4dr.
for bumpstop spacers/extensions if the ones your referring to are the ones that go on the end of the shocks they are not the best option. i suggest ordering from bits4bits and getting the extensions that actually lower your stock bumpstop. as mentioned if i didn't have these i'd be at risk of losing a coil. for the front they might be good, you'll only know if you start popping strut mounts....
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What is the part number for the Cav. shocks? I want to add it to my list.
NAPA #'s are:
NAPA Response RR 94027 $16.99
Sensa-Trac NS 5896 $35.69
GR-2 Gas - Rear (KYB) ATM K343177 $ local
Gas-A-Adjust - Rear (KYB) ATM KKG4536 $ local
Air Shock Kit - Rear NS MA811 $ 86.59
I bought Sensa-Tracs because they are the cheapest with a lifetime warranty.
another shock that may be worth looking into are the mid-late 80's toyota supra rears, spoke to a couple people running them in their gen 1 kicks. somebody had also used some toyota 4runner rears on a 4dr.
for bumpstop spacers/extensions if the ones your referring to are the ones that go on the end of the shocks they are not the best option. i suggest ordering from bits4bits and getting the extensions that actually lower your stock bumpstop. as mentioned if i didn't have these i'd be at risk of losing a coil. for the front they might be good, you'll only know if you start popping strut mounts....
Thanks for the warning on the EVS stops possibly trashing the strut bushings.
F that noise.
Two sets of the BitsForVits bump stops are now $131 shipped to the US due to the Ameri-Peso being in the toilet! :o
Pass.
I'll think of something this week.
Right now, it'll probably some metric thread adapters with a metric all-thread rod and some heavy washers.
Butch, but all steel too.
I'll give a AAR with pics once it's together.
Late 80-early 90's supras use a strut that looks like our rear shocks and it's stout, about the right length too.
Assuming the travel length listed is a typo and not the extended or compressed length.
My math says travel is 7.84, not 4.84.
The big problem to me is that there's no washer welded to the op-rod so something would have to be done to hold it in.
(http://partimages.genpt.com/largeimages/157721.jpg)
NS 71215SS $38.99
Strut Extended Length : 21.5"
Strut Compressed Length : 13.625"
Strut Travel Length : 4.84"
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I just want to say thanks for all of the information here. I am getting ready to go through this transformation soon. Mine is a 99 2d too so these threads were extremely helpful and of intrest to me!
I have Jeff's kit and he has listed the best shocks. he also shows to slot the holes on the front strut (not the A-arms!). One of the budget tricks I want to do for additional lift is find taller springs.
I read where 4 door springs (99-04) will give me an additional 2 inches. I noticed you used XL7 rear springs for additional rear lift. Did you use the front?
I would like to just add spring lift and install install 31" tires. But if I am going to have to add 2" of body lift then I would like to know this so I can start getting stuff together.
This Forum has the most on hand member knowlege so I'm takin it to the experts...... ;)
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i still run stock front coils, which are getting soft and saggy and will be replace with junk yard gv coils eventually, they should only yeild about one inch of lift.
you can try to put these in with the 1.5inch front spacer and see how it goes, i'd want to have manual hubs and a diff drop for that though and also your downtravel will be limited cause of more lift. get the body lift.
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LOL.... I just sent you a PM asking a few questions while you were posting this.... ur way too good! Thnxz! ;)
One thing you are unaware of is this ride is 2wd.... no pesky front axles... Ha-Ha...
I have built multiple big 4wds and a few high 2wds. Since this is gonna just be a street machine the 4wd wasn't a necesscity. For all intensive purposes it will have all of the looks of a 4wd and will be functional off road with obvious limitations.
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Ok!
i'm at it.
Bad news:
the rear spacers needed to have the OD reduced 1/8" to fit and the rear springs torched to bend out the top coil to fit.
The good:
The front is going together well.
The drivers side is done.
After compressing the front spring enough get it out, I supported the hub with a wood block., then unbolted the A arm from the frame, leaving the shaft still in the hub and the caliper still on the hub.
This dropped the A arm far enough that I didn't have to compress the spring any more to put it all back together with the spacer in. 8)
I was really hoping unbolting the A arm would give enough drop that I could save the hassle of having to remove the C-clip from the shaft, but it doesn't.
Great news:
I found a rear brake line that gives plenty of rear travel.
It's Wagner Brake Hose Part No. BH96392
I don't know what it's for.
It's 12 3/4 inches long, so it's 1" longer than needed for this combination.
The axle line holder had to opened up a little to fit the nut, but the top was rotated correctly to fit the frame holder and it snaps securely into place.
PIC
(http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcsstore/CVWEB/staticproductimage//228/large/3639169_ben_77114_pri_larg.jpg)
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Oh yeah, a few more questions.
Is 1/8" spring compression at full droop enough to keep the rear suspension together on the trail?
That's all it's got right now. 8)
Do I need limiting straps?
Could I glue the spacers in place so they don't shift out of the cups at full droop?
If it wasn't for the bump stops, I could disassemble the rear suspension without unbolting the shocks.
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Really the rear spacers did not fit??? Did they have the lip on them still. I should have removed it for the newer models. SORRY if I did not. :-[ As far as the droop in the rear I do not know. My spacers never came out and I had the same setup as you.
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My rear spacers (Jeff's) had to be taken down just a little in diameter. It also looked like they were too tall and the springs would possibly be able to move/pop out. So far they have not moved, and i've been playing with them . :D
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What diameter is too big? The overall 4"+ size or the lip diameter? This is the first I have heard of the diameter being too big.
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The overall diameter. It was required to get them to fit up into the cups. It was a very small amount though. I thought you told me that was normal since the different year/models have slightly different sizes? or was that for the front? the front seemed too tight to slide all the way up, but as per your suggestion we pounded them on no problem. Thanks again Jeff! I'm really happy with my ride.
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Normally the front requires adjustment on some. I have never heard of the rear not fitting. Did it have to be taken down or did pounding get it it? The top of the spacer is larger than the front due to mold taper, but not that much.
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It was the OD, I cut the spacers on a lathe to fit. The steel cups welded to the frame were about 1/8 inch smaller.
The front ID was about .050 too tight.
Just had to sand them a little with a dremel and hammer them on using a roll of duct tape as the punch. ( 1,000,001 uses and counting! )
As posted by bush buster, the factory probably made several different sizes.
This would make sense since this would keep the 4D rear springs from accidentally being installed in a 2D ( or vice-versa ) on the assembly line.
I'd think nothing of it.
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I am just trying to keep everybody happy ;D. I am still finding there are little differences that each year and style have that requires a little tweak here and there.
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Jeff, I had to remove about 1/8" from the top down about 1/2" of my rear coil spacers to allow them to sit into the upper spring retaining cup. I just went over to the bench grinder and scrubbed them off. No big deal. I started to do the same for the front but found mine fit up into the spring cup just find without any adjustment. This was way back in December 1997. I've had absolutely no problems whats so ever with them since the install. I used two inch longer shocks to match the 2" lift so there is no way the springs will fall out unless one of my shock mounts failed... but that could also be true if the suspension was stock under the right cirmstances.
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If you're in the market for better struts in the future, I'd check out the Rocky-Road OME struts. They give your ride alot more down travel than stock.
nprecon was right about the strut mounts. Mine were fine when I first lifted it, but they later blew out when my struts blew. Look around in the local junkyards and grab yourself an extra set...you might need them later.
Also, you said you have had to do very little mantience and your Tracker has 110,000 miles? I just hit 100,000 and my upper timing chain broke and ruined the whole head. Long story short it took 2 badly remanufactured heads, $2,100, a labor lawsuit, and about 4 months to get my baby running..decent, again; still doesn't run right. Other people on the message boards have had their chains break at 70,000 miles. Just some friendly advice, get your chain replaced NOW before it wears out the the point of failure. I was at 2,500 RPM 4th gear just cruising less than 1/2 a mile from my house when mine broke for no reason.
Save yourself the hassle I went though, get a quote for a new upper timing chain. My .02 cents.
Damn Suzuki motors.. :-[
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Nothing wrong with the chains. It's the hydraulic tensioners that fail, and they won't fail if you use fully synthetic 5w30 engine oil. That's been posted here many times.
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Hmm..I will have to keep that in mind. That goes for the 2.5L's as well, or just the 2.0L's?
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Hmm..I will have to keep that in mind. That goes for the 2.5L's as well, or just the 2.0L's?
Specifically for the 2.5s - I can't say about the 2.0s, but why chance it?
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Hmm..I will have to keep that in mind. That goes for the 2.5L's as well, or just the 2.0L's?
Specifically for the 2.5s - I can't say about the 2.0s, but why chance it?
Well I had the 2.0 when the timing chain broke, but I'm replacing it with a 2.5. 5w-30 synthetic for the v-6 as well?
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Hmm..I will have to keep that in mind. That goes for the 2.5L's as well, or just the 2.0L's?
Specifically for the 2.5s - I can't say about the 2.0s, but why chance it?
Well I had the 2.0 when the timing chain broke, but I'm replacing it with a 2.5. 5w-30 synthetic for the v-6 as well?
Definitely!
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Ok, thanks for the insights, sorry the thread got hijacked..
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"I got the 235's on the advice posted here and I'm glad I followed it.
My DD commute is over 60 miles round trip and has a lot of stop and go. No highway driving.
The acceleration is as poor as I can tolerate, if the tires were any bigger, I'd have to swap out the 5.12 gears."
Blue Meanie, I just noticed your comment on "having to swap out your 5.12 gears". I'm thinking your 2 liter Tracker with the auto tranny came with 4.88 gear sets in it and unless you have already swapped out the stock gears for a set of higher 5.12 (Tracker/Gv) gears, you still have the option of jumping up to a set of readily available gears for your truck. You would gain ALOT of gear generated torque running 235s without a huge reduction in MPG. Just a thought.
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I swapped out 205 60 16 for 235 75 15. I found this change to gain a slight improvement in milage and improved steering.