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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: hillbilly3 on October 04, 2009, 05:12:54 PM
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I have a 95 JS tin top that the tranny (4 speed auto) quit. When it's cold it will move forward and reverse, but within a few minutes, it will not move at all. It starts whining like theres a stripped gear. Fluid is good and up to level. Previously, it would not up shift to second gear until the tranny warmed up. Also it would jump when backing up if throttled up. It has about 120,000 miles on it. Trying to decide if its worth rebuilding, or maybe dropping a complete 4.3 vortech/tranny/transfercase from a S-10 Blazer rollover I have. Haven't seriously looked at the complications of that swap yet. Hard to find anything on the web that tells exactly what transmission it has in it. I have heard that some trannys were ISUZU, some where GM.
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The 4 speed is made my Aisin. They supply a lot of transmissions to Japanese vehicles. The previous 3 speed was made my GM. It was a TH180 (aka Chevette transmission).
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Are they expensive to get rebuilt? I had a feeling the three speeds were the Chevette trannys. I've looked at the pan, and it does not really match any of the drawings I have seen. Closest one I saw was a 4L30E.
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I got a quote 3 years ago for $750 for a rebuilt 3 speed. I have a feeling the 4 speed would be a lot more since it is computer controlled.
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The 4 speed is made my Aisin. They supply a lot of transmissions to Japanese vehicles. The previous 3 speed was made my GM. It was a TH180 (aka Chevette transmission).
Thanks for the heads up on the manufacture, I think what I have is the 03-72LE /A44DE. I will have to pull it out this weekend and check it out. Pretty big transmission for a little four banger! Shouldn't be as heavy as the cast iron four speed manual I just put back in my F350 ton truck though! what a pain! had the added weight of a power takeoff for the dump bed too.
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Dropped the pan tonight, apparently the previous owner changed the fluid but not the filter. It was pretty nasty. It was so clogged that when I dropped it, about a half pint of fluid came out from behind it. The pan was sludgey, but there were no metal particles or shavings on the magnets in the bottom. Going to pull the cooler lines and check to see if the cooler is clogged too.
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Think you might get lucky and just be able to put in a new filter and fluid?
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Think you might get lucky and just be able to put in a new filter and fluid?
Hope so, looks to be a pain in the rear getting the tranny and transfer case out. The fluid was clean and not burn't, and with the abscence of metal particles in the pan, I'm hoping that with the clogged filter, there was not enough pressure to engage the gears. When its cold the oil is thick enough to work, but quickly fades when it warms up.
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Clean out the valve body, it will work like new for a little bit of your time.
New fluid knocks the old crap loose and then it gets wedged into the workings
of the valve body, pull the tubes, drop the body, watch and write down all
that parts as they come out, keep an eye out for ball bearings that are hanging
on with the trans fluid waiting to jump out and bounce on the floor.
Honestly this isn't a hard fix, just watch your parts and clean it well with brake cleaner,
you also are going to need a gasket kit for the trans, as the thin paper one between
the plate and the halves of the housing is going to break apart
good luck
Wild
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Changed the tranny fluid and filter tonight, decided not to attempt cleaning the valve body yet, I like to have diagrams in case I forget how something goes back together. Added almost a quart of Lucas transmisson fix also. Now the whine is gone, but still will not work in reverse and now stalls in drive, so as soon as I get a manual on it, I will go through it and see whats up with it.
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Changed the tranny fluid and filter tonight, decided not to attempt cleaning the valve body yet, I like to have diagrams in case I forget how something goes back together.
Thats why I keep a cheap digital camera close by. If its a job I haven't done before I photograph everything as it comes apart.
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Changed the tranny fluid and filter tonight, decided not to attempt cleaning the valve body yet, I like to have diagrams in case I forget how something goes back together.
Thats why I keep a cheap digital camera close by. If its a job I haven't done before I photograph everything as it comes apart.
Good idea, but my luck is something falls out and I didn't see where it came from originally ::)
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Still haven't fixed the tranny yet, since I changed the filter and fluid, it now will go in drive, but not in reverse, as wildgoody said, it probally a clogged valve body. If it will ever warm up down here I will have to drop the pan again. It's a shame, because with all of the snow we have right now, I cannot get out and play in it!
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IMO, the best way to change out the fluid is to pull the rubber return line that comes from the cooler and pump all the old fluid out that way. You get a much better fluid replacement that way, instead of just dropping the pan and replacing what little fluid is in the pan. To pump the fluid out....pull the line, put it into a big bucket (so it won't come out when the fluid starts pumping), start the vehicle and shift into drive, when the fluid stops pumping, shut off engine and add some new fluid to the tranny, repeat previous procedure until the fluid that is getting pumped out is clean fluid. Once clean fluid is being pumped out, drop the pan, clean the pan, change the filter, put a new pan gasket on (unless it is a rubber pan gasket that is still in good shape, then you can reuse it), reassemble everything (don't forget to hook the line back up that you pulled to drain/pump the fluid out), and refill the tranny. Warm up tranny and recheck fluid level.
I have used the above procedure for a tranny that was not shifting correctly and it fixed the problem. I believe my problem was a gummy valve body and it eventually got flushed out and started operating correctly, once I got some new fluid in there.
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Like Rhinoman says....keep a digital camera around. Then send us a write-up WITH PICS!
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Seriously, the valve body isn't that bad to tear down, watch out for the small check
balls and you should be good to get it fixed
Wild
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I will have to wait till it warms up a little bit, it's 28 degrees right now, and the back wall of my shop is not finnished yet, hard to heat. (another one of a million projects I have got to get finnished!)
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After changing the oil and filter, I got first, third and fourth back, but still no reverse. Dropped and cleaned the valve body, still no difference. Found another tranny for $65 in the junkyard, got it out of a two wheel drive kick, so it has the false transfer case (spacer) took about three hours to get it out, but from the wax crayon markings on the pump end, it may have been rebuilt recently. Hope to have it in by the end of the week.
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There are plungers or pistons that you have to make sure are free
to move properly also in the valve body.
Wild
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Got the new transmission in, and it worked fine for the first couple of miles, then started acting up again. This time though, the OD light (MIL) started flashing. Got it back to the shop, it stored no codes other than MAP sensor, if I remember right. I didn't think this transmission was computer controlled, but apparently it is.
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Got the new transmission in, and it worked fine for the first couple of miles, then started acting up again. This time though, the OD light (MIL) started flashing. Got it back to the shop, it stored no codes other than MAP sensor, if I remember right. I didn't think this transmission was computer controlled, but apparently it is.
A 4 speed is computer controlled. A 3 speed isn't.
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Finally found some decent info on the web, found a troubleshooting guide that actually tells how this transmission is set up. The Park/neutral switch does much more than inhibit cranking while in gear, since I found out this is computer controlled (no thanks to others web sites) the shifter position is an input that may be causing my problem. It has been getting worse at having to push or pull on the shifter to engage the safety switch to start. I'm going to replace this switch, and hopefully will cure the problem.
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The switch is probably only part of the problem, but now I have a lot more to go on, heres the link for those who need it. http://www.suzuki4x4.net/manual/vitara/autotransdiagnosis_1.pdf (http://www.suzuki4x4.net/manual/vitara/autotransdiagnosis_1.pdf)
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Excellent PDF!
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I think I will actually test the switch first, there pricey. $200 Playing with the adjustment might be cheaper!
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Found a switch for less than $100, havn't put it in yet though, the transmission I just had put in is doing something different from what I was told, I got it back and test drove it, It goes through first and second, but will not shift into third. Once you get up around 40-50 mph it drops out of gear when it should go to third. It will not go back into gear until you stop completely. Got to be something to do with the computer. Hopefully I will have time this weekend to change the switch and test the solenoids.
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Worked on the tranny today, found out the auto supply sold me the wrong park/neutral switch, it is for 99 and newer, and will not work on the 95 >:( (not enough contacts and wires on it) The test pdf I posted does not match the wire color code, and pin configuration either. The locations of the computers are not correct either. The cruise control module is on the firewall, not next to the TCM. The power door lock module is next to the TCM. Unplugged the TCM, transmission still does same thing, but I did find out turning the "Overdrive" switch off, prevented it from dropping into neutral after reaching 45 MPH, but still does not shift to third. Something is missing from the wiring diagram, because this switch is an input to the TCM, and should have no affect on the transmission with the TCM disconnected. The wires to the solenoids are difficult to get to, and have no quick connect to take apart to test, as well as the Park/Neutral switch (very bad design) Since the colors and the pins on the diagram do not match at the TCM, I cannot troubleshoot them at that end. Even the supply voltage is comming in at pins different than what the diagram shows. Looks like American engineers do not have the market cornered on screwed up wiring diagrams, the Japanese engineers are tring to beat them on it.