ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Bryce132 on May 31, 2009, 06:02:47 PM
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Hey Guys,
After finally getting my Sidekick running with 31 Mickey Thompsons MTZ's on her new body lift etc...
We went out today for a good run, with LOTs of mud and WATER.
My truck held up well and I will be posting pictures and video's soon.
What are some water proofing tips and trick? I searched and found nothing really...
My main concern is the alternator.... it took a reall crap kicking this run from all the water and wont charge at all now. I cant seem to find a sealed one anywhere....
So my question is;
What do you guys do to protect your rig from the major elements?
I sprayed and rewrapped all my wires, sealed my starter, floor, cab and snorkeled her. Now i need to do something for my alternator... What you guys running in the mud/water?
I think buying some rubber matting to make inner fenders and stuff to protect would be a good idea...
Bryce
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there is no "sealed" alternators. they need to be open to keep them from overheating and burning up that way. as for tips...... stay out of the water :P but seriously, most vehicles are not designed to be run thru door deep water. maybe there are some military mechanics on the board that can chime in on this one. really it boils down to..... you play, you pay.
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LOl
I knew i was going to hear that... I just want to minimize the total impact it has on my rig. I have pretty much everything covered besides the alt. I guess shields are the only option?
Bryce
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Gm alternator = sealed 99 % best you will get.
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Well my Suzuki alternator is far from %99 sealed dont know what your talking about... Suzuki is GM....
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When Going thru deep water, I shut off my fan to keep from hoseing down the eng comp, and crawl thru in low range, as slow as I can. Do anything you can to keep from splashing. Or go around!
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Well my Suzuki alternator is far from %99 sealed dont know what your talking about... Suzuki is GM....
GM may sell the Metro & Tracker which are/were rebadged Suzukis and the Suzuki XL-7 (2nd gen) may be a GM design derivative, but that does not make Suzuki GM and if I'm not mistaken - GM no longers owns any part of Suzuki - last November Suzuki bought back 16.4million shares at a cost of $231M.
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yeah, GM does not own Suzuki, Suzuki does not = GM. Yes, the Chevy Tracker is VERY similar to a Suzuki Vitara, mostly because it is. When he said GM
Gm alternator = sealed 99 % best you will get.
He means if you put an alternator from a chevy onto a trackick it will be 99% waterproof.
Also, apply these ideas, (a quick google search)
http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=259510
http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/trail/129_0706_waterproof_your_4x4_rig/index.html
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What about the exterior vents, my 01 Tracker has vents under the rear bumper for when you shut the door allowing interior air to escape. I saw a guy weld shut his vents 20 years ago on Nissan mini truck (they were behind the windows, under the black caps) and he had to push the doors shut slowly to get them to close.
I was going to lift the carpet and silicone around all the seams and underneath around the seat track bolts, call me paranoid. Just ordered my Snorkel for $340 with freight from fts4X4|removethispart|@gmal.com.
Sadly GM filed for bankruptcy today
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I was going to lift the carpet and silicone around all the seams and underneath around the seat track bolts, call me paranoid.
I wouldn't call you paranoid, but I will wish you the best of luck.
If you're planning to go wading, to the depths where you'll need a snorkel, with any regularity - I'd suggest getting rid of the carpet and spraying some sort of rust protectant (waxoyl or similar) into every opening in the sills and box sections - you WILL get water in them and it WILL rust from the inside out.
The unibody construction of the average vehicle uses sheet steel pressed and folded into different shapes for strength and the seams spot welded, leaving many gaps and holes and all you need to miss is one - these vehicles are only slightly different in that the body is bolted to a full frame, but the body construction is still very similar.
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Wow thanks guys, I had NO idea Suzuki was completly seperate from GM now, thats good considering they filed for bankruptcy hahah.
I have my floor completly gator guarded and fiberglassed, all sealed up besides a passenger door rubber which is crap, replacing soon.
Anyone fab up some shields or something to protect the ALT?
Bryce
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If you are willing to use a marine alternator you might get some additional protection from water. They are "sealed" to prevent an explosion inside from getting out. Interesting article at: "http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech Marine Alternator tips.pdf"
All land alternators that I know of use air cooling. This means that water, dust, mud & crap intrusion is a fact of life. There's a newer Delco-Remy 11SI (8600000) 95A alternator that is specifically intended for off-highway conditions. I've got one in a box to install when I get around to it. It's rather expensive, well over $200 for the alternator alone. Paul, (adventure-off-rd on eBay) at Adventure-Off-Road set me up with mine, but bring your larger wallet. It's the smaller 121mm size and fits well.
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If you are willing to use a marine alternator you might get some additional protection from water. They are sealed to prevent an explosion inside from getting out. Interesting article at: "[url]http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech[/url] Marine Alternator tips.pdf"
All land alternators that I know of use air cooling. This means that water, dust, mud & crap intrusion is a fact of life. There's a newer Delco-Remy 11SI (8600000) 95A alternator that is specifically intended for off-highway conditions. I've got one in a box to install when I get around to it. It's rather expensive, well over $200 for the alternator alone. Paul, (adventure-off-rd on eBay) at Adventure-Off-Road set me up with mine, but bring your larger wallet. It's the smaller 121mm size and fits well.
This is some great info! Thanks.
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If you are willing to use a marine alternator you might get some additional protection from water. They are sealed to prevent an explosion inside from getting out. Interesting article at: "[url]http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech[/url] Marine Alternator tips.pdf"
All land alternators that I know of use air cooling. This means that water, dust, mud & crap intrusion is a fact of life. There's a newer Delco-Remy 11SI (8600000) 95A alternator that is specifically intended for off-highway conditions. I've got one in a box to install when I get around to it. It's rather expensive, well over $200 for the alternator alone. Paul, (adventure-off-rd on eBay) at Adventure-Off-Road set me up with mine, but bring your larger wallet. It's the smaller 121mm size and fits well.
Just in case that link doesn't work for you - here (http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech%20Marine%20Alternator%20tips.pdf) it is again, and, looking at that link, the alternators are not "sealed", but have varying design changes to remove or reduce the probability of a spark from the brushes igniting the gasolene fumes that accumulate in a boat.
In the case of the Delco Remy alternator shown, this design change consists of three layers (or plies) of fine metallic mesh that forms a flame arrestor rather than a water proof seal.
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You can find the details of the Delco Remy "off highway alternator"here (http://www.delcoremy.com/LiteratureDownload/Documents/SpecGuide.pdf). sorry but I was unable to find it as a separate sheet.
Please note is not a sealed unit, but, supposedly more resistant to "debris & contamination" due to it's dual fan design.
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Please note is not a sealed unit, but, supposedly more resistant to "debris & contamination" due to it's dual fan design.
The dual INTERNAL fans and the compact (121mm) size were the main features that sold me on this particular Delco model. But, it's not for everyone, and I cannot yet provide feedback since I have not yet installed it. And you must change-out the serpentine pulley for a V-belt style pulley. I thought I wanted 105 Amperes, but realistically, 95A is "good enough" for my application (I plan to charge external batteries). It's a Zuk after all !
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back in the day that I played submarine I tried to find a way to fix the alt problem. I ended up changing the fan to an electric and turning it off before diving in. I also had a spare alt in my sealed box. I had the hood under water more than once and in years only lost one alt. Took the bad one off and bolted on the good one.
I had a friend who tried a marine one and he kept frying it. It wasnt' worth the effort.
When I got my LJ I found a pipe that came off the engine that went to the dist...it pressurised the distributor and was meant to keep the water out.
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That fan swap is high on my todo list, wading is the first reason, but I also hope to see an improvement in fuel consumption.
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electric fan?
what are you guys running, I still have the fan on the motor, prob why my alternator died after last weekend runs, water was above the hood ALOT. I just replaced mine and intend on fabbing up some kind of case for it, with some home made mud flaps and inner fenders around wheel wells, and below the front of the motor...
Woudl be interested in doing the electric fan too? Any write ups?
Bryce
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I have not replaced my fan yet - but I'm considering a flexalite or something similar - put a thermo switch in the thermostat housing, or in the radiator lower tank and an ON/AUTO/OFF override switch (and warning light) on the dash.
Another option - since I'm driving a 98GV with the J20A engine - would be to take a look see at what the newer, post 05GV uses, since those have electric fans standard.
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by GM alternator i meant an older, V8 alternator from GM vehicles, chev vans, trucks gmc ect. a bracket will need to be fabbed for this, or some manufacturers sell them.... either way, replace it with one, and spray it off time to time and youll never kill it
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I replaced my stock alt with one out of an older GM/Chev Suburban. I can't remember the pn, but I'm sure it's on here somewhere. It's been submerged numorous times, holding up fine. I clean it with electronics spray occasionally. The only thing I noticed different is when I first start the Tracker, the alt dash lite will stay on until I blip the throttle, and get revs over 1500. After that it's completely normal. Never did figure out why, and as long as it keeps working I don't care. Lower bracket from Trail Tough, upper just legthened.
I use an electric fan, 14" I think. It's switched on and off via a lighted switch on the dash. Only time I need the fan on is when in 4wd slow mode, or in heavy stop and go traffic on a hot day. Most of the time it's off, especially in deeper water.
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A few of the guys here in NZ are running a small 12v airbed pump under the dash and plumbing them into the diff, gearbox, transfer case breathers and also into the starter,alternator, winch motors and dizzy's. The idea is to not provide so much pressure that you blow the gaskets and pump any fluids out (1-2 psi is fine) but to provide a slight positive pressure to whatever you need to protect, to stop the mud etc from getting in (also works to cool the winch motor alittle as well.
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That sounds like alot of added weight and taken space, which i cant spare on a small 2dr tracker!
I have started building inner fenders out of old tractor tire tubes, as well as a protective guard for the alternator. I have all my breathers extended much higher than i would ever go.
Guess that and replacing all my seals is my only hope...
Bryce
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I've had my alt in all kinds of mud (enof mud to start having problem with my clutch)and water. When the original alt died (140Kmiles) on me I replaced it with one from "Auto Zone". I don't usally get part like this from there but they have a life time warrenty. That was 5 - 6 years ago and still have the same alt.
I only have had one problem with it not working (a lot of mud). When I got home, with the motor running, I sprayed the altinator down with water for a few minutes. After that it started working.
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After you have the body sealed up as much as you can. Don't forget the frame. I used to mud bog lil Suzy and to this day the frame is full of Tennessee and Mississippi mud. I can't get it out. I am in Colorado so it stays dry and I don't get into deep water much anymore, however if I was still down south I am sure the frame would have rusted in half by now.
The trick with an alternator is to get one which uses really good components. After my original alt croaked I went the Autozone route and kept having them replace them until they wouldn't anymore. I then went to a local rebuilder and he explained to me that places like autozone buy from the cheapest rebuilders they can find (read China) who in turn use the cheapest components they can find to repair the alts they sell. I had them rebuild me an alt which they sealed as much as possible for deep water use. I ran that alt for years before it went bad. I now have upgraded to a AC Delco and have had no problems at all. The reason that you have to rev the engine to start them is that they are self exciting i.e. 1 wire alternators. Having to rev to start the alt is normal for AC Delco alts.
On lil Suzy She came with AC (read Air Compressor), so what I did for a electric fan was to remount the condenser fan to the front of the radiator. I used some 1" x 1/8 bar stock to make mounting brackets This has worked great for years. I use a switch on the dash to turn it off for deep water.
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Kind of off topic (at least on the waterproofing standpoint), but I wish to upgrade my alternator if necessary. 1990 Geo Tracker 1.6L 8v, what is the stock alternator rating? And how will that hold up to a lot of accessory power, I am installing a lot of lights on the Tracker, and will accomodate a Warn M8000 winch. I plan to upgrade a battery at the least, but what would be the best route on an alternator?
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Thanks for clearing up the mystery alt lite thing sidekicksrock. djlantis, you'll want to upgrade to a bigger alt. Trail Tough sells a lower bracket that lets you mount a larger GM Delco unit, 100 amps or more, but you'll have to modify your stock top mount or make a new one. The stock alt is rated at 55 amps I think. I also saw some kits on ebay that have everything you'll need, mounts, wiring adapter, everything but the alt. Best to get that locally.
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I found the kit on Roadless Gear's site, but have not found it on Trail Tough's site at all, where is it?
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Trail Tough doesn't have a "kit" only the lower bracket. If your fab skills are limited and you don't have a welder, go with the Roadless kit.
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if your fab skills are limited.
Best descibes me, I have a welder but not too confident in my skills so far. Only welded in shop classes in college and back in high school. Plus, the Roadless eliminates the guesswork of finding an alternator and a belt too. It's like all there in one thing
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;) Go for It!
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I'm waiting to see how it performs with a winch and lights right now, but I don't have things mounted up yet. Probably get a bigger battery and do the Roadless kit. I've looked at my battery bracket, and it looks like I can go a lot bigger, as big as my Silverado's battery right now.
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I've been running the Optima Yellow Top for years, since I got my Tracker. Definetly worth the investment. Thing is bulletproof.
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I'll probably go yellow top optima when I replace the battery, but it still is a new battery, so it stays until I see how well it works as-is now. Probably go with the roadless alt. kit since it comes with everything needed