ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: 94blackgeo on January 16, 2009, 08:34:15 AM
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I have a 94 tracker and im building on a buget and i was wondering wut shocks in the back should i use to get a little more flex.... someone told me crown vic shocks but i dont know any ideaz
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2 door 4 door?
and by flex im assuming you mean articulation which "lift springs" wont help you with. longer travel struts/shocks are needed to articulate more.
maybe try some strut spacers and lift springs
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Talk to Jeff1997 he sells spacers and it is the best way to go if on a budget. Also, do a search for shocks and you should find a plethora of information... ;)
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wut kind of spacers spring spacers or strut
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wut kind of spacers spring spacers or strut
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?action=search;advanced
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http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=21293.msg181343#msg181343
Here are some Monroe numbers for reference for you.
Derek
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You will need coil spring spacers and strut spacers as well as longer rear shocks. I sell all but the shocks. For a budget 2" lift I reccomend using 1.5" coil and strut spacers in front and 2" coil spacers rear. This setup is the best way to go to level out the vehicle and give a full 2" lift all around. The shocks i use are from a 95 Mustang. The crown vic ones require some mods to work. The complete kit minus the shocks sells for $125 shipped to you. I can get shocks and the whole thing will run you $190. Let me know if this is something you would be interested in. Thanks, Jeff
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Lift: Is clearance between the ground & an object. A suspension lift will move the frame & body away from the ground. A body lift will move the body away from the frame & ground (but the frame will not move away from the ground, so you have no additional ground clearance, only more room for tires).
Flex: Flex is created by longer springs AND shocks (or struts). The longer springs compress / decompress more, and matching long-travel shocks / struts will be needed, or they'll limit the travel of the longer spring to stock travel. Spring spacers will NOT create additional flex. They're a spacer on top of the same-length spring (creating suspension lift), and have no way of making the spring compress / decompress any more than it already does. You will either need a longer shock / strut, or re-locate the mounting point to use your existing shock / strut (Jeff's kit uses both).
You basically have 5 choices with a kick:
Fender Trimming (aka "virtual lift"): Should be re-named fender "bending the lip in" really - the cuts are just reliefs to make the bending easier & to follow more precise lines. The often overlooked way to put on larger tires, keep the center of gravity low, will look good if done well, and costs only a few $$$ for hand-tools that you probably already have. If people were honest, they'd tell you they skip this option in the name of vanity - after all - lifts just look cool.
Spring Spacers $200+: The lift won't give additional articulation, but for $200 - who cares? It costs 1/4 the price of the OME (see below), making it the best bang-for-the buck way lift a kick. Jeff's kit has gotten rave reviews on quality & customer service.
OME 1.5" Lift $700 + S&H: Made by ARB - this is the luxury lift with the luxury price tag. The ride quality will drastically improve, and is the ONLY kit that gives 3" of additional suspension travel front & rear (OME is the only long-travel strut option). If you can afford it, get it - it's worth every penny.
Trail Slayer Solid Axle Swap (SAS) $4,000 + cost of axles & tooling: This puts Toyota solid axles in the front & rear of the Kick. Good for 33-35" tires. The only currently available SAS kit is made by Trail Tough, and gets good reviews. Like all Trail Tough products, it's well thought out, engineered & manufactured.
Home Brew: Most home-brew setups include some combination of the above kits. If you don't already know how to do it, then don't bother - you probably don't have the tooling needed, which will drive the cost of DIY higher than just buying the kit.
There are other kits out there (Calmini), but for the asking price, I've not included them 'cause they're just not worth it. Body lifts are the >:D - they raise the center of gravity without giving any additional ground clearance. This is BAD BAD BAD on short wheelbase vehicles, and should be avoided. The kits listed above are really the only options that make sense. From there - we're just limited by gearing, but that's a whole other thread.
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the ONLY kit that gives 3" of additional suspension travel front & rear (OME is the only long-travel strut option). If you can afford it, get it - it's worth every penny.
There are other kits out there (Calmini), but for the asking price, I've not included them 'cause they're just not worth it.
The kits listed above are really the only options that make sense. From there - we're just limited by gearing, but that's a whole other thread.
The OME kit give less articulation than the Calmini kit front and rear. I have explained this in detail to you before why can't you understand this? You keep repeating the same nonsense. Have you ever had a Calmini kit?
I would always recommend the 3" Calmini kit for anyone looking for max. articulation. It also gives 3" of lift not 1.5" and moves the front wheel slighlty further forward for additional clearance. As for value for money, take a look at what you get with the Calmini kit. Its a comprehensive lift kit not just springs and shocks/struts.
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take a look at what you get with the Calmini kit. Its a comprehensive lift kit not just springs and shocks/struts.
I agree with rhinoman the calmini kit is more $$$$$ due to the extra parts it includes. I don't have the kit but by looking at their site I can tell you its a "competition" quality suspension "system".
just my 0.02
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Thanks for all the info but 4 right now dont have the money for calmini stuff kause i got knocked down to 4 days a week at work THIS BLOWs LOL thanks for everything and let me know if anymore ideas
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For the price you can't beat jeffs spacers! I just got mine in the mail today and they look invincible! with shocks for $190 is a steal. Without a body lift should be able to fit 30s. (at least thats what
I'm tryin ;))
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The OME kit give less articulation than the Calmini kit front and rear.
The Calmini kit doesn't include long travel shocks. They're stock travel - limiting the travel of their suspension to stock. The kit includes strut spacers (see red circles) = stock travel:
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i246/Jeremiah_Junkins/Auto/Calmini3inliftstrutspacerhighlighte.jpg)
You don't NEED their A-arm to get longer travel. Though their A-arm is pretty cool, and does re-center the front wheels allowing the use of larger tires, and negates the need for a re-alignment. I've also flexed my suspension (OME) side-by-side next to a Calmini lifted 4-door to to prove I had more flex.
I would always recommend the 3" Calmini kit for anyone looking for max. articulation. It also gives 3" of lift not 1.5" and moves the front wheel slighlty further forward for additional clearance. As for value for money, take a look at what you get with the Calmini kit. Its a comprehensive lift kit not just springs and shocks/struts.
The rest of the items don't "add value", they're surperfluous. What's the point of all those bits, and the taller lift? The OME will already clear 31" tires with MINIMAL trimming (if any at all - depends on tire brand). Going with 30-34" tires KILLS the streetability (MPG, power, overdrive) of a Kick. There's no gearing options (without axle-swapping) to handle larger tires. If the larger tires are impractical - so's the extra lift (raising center-of-gravity for no reason). At $250 more for parts & lift you don't need, the Calmini kit isn't a good value at all.
The 1.5" from the OME suspension is more than enough for 29/30" tires (without any trimming), and rides much better than Calmini. Do some searching - I challenge you to find one person unhappy with their OME kit (I've never heard of one in the years of being on these boards). About 1/2 the people installing Calmini say the ride quality is worse than stock (their springs are too stiff, but will soften up a bit if you add a heavy front bumper & winch).
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For the price you can't beat jeffs spacers!
x2
At the time I got my OME, Jeff's spacers weren't available (and other vendors were charging way too much) or I would have gone this route. For the same price as an OME lift, you can get Jeff's spacers & a rear locker (which will make your rig act like it's on 2" taller tires while keeping a lower center of gravity, and better slow-crawl) for less money than the OME kit. Skip the Calmini kit, and you can afford a front locker too. I'll take a Jeff's lifted kick w/ F&R lockers on 29" tires over a Calmini lifted kick on 31" tires ANY day.
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FYI guys Monroe-Matic shocks part number-32260. They are 20" long extended,. More than enough to compensate for my coil spacers.
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Aside from personal preference on lifts - Hopefully Rockrats will have the best of all worlds
Why is the low center of gravity such a big deal? I already know the handling, arrowdynamics, etc. are worse.
The driver should know already know these things before attempting an off camber or sports car maneuver.
If it really is an issue we should go with coil overs through the fender wells like a rally car?
As for money spent on lifts and what not - I had to get used to buying additional parts and realizing it is a never ending cycle.
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Jeff - are those longer shocks (rear) or struts (front)?
rjrick - High CG = more likely to roll or tip over (on and off road). I've driven low-as-possible-for-tire-size rigs, and ones that were lifted unnecessarily high up. There used to be a active poster on here (drove "the turtle") who fit 31" tires with just fender trimming I believe - it was amazing where he could take that rig. Low CG = NICE. Confidence inspiring stable suspensions are a beautiful thing.
Unless things have changed, Rockrat's kit is going to be like a giant spacer (like the old Pro-Comp lifts) that drops the stock suspension setup, and will therefore retain stock travel (at least in the front). He looked into getting longer-travel struts, but couldn't source them for less than the already-loved OME strut. There's a long thread about it here:
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,85641.0.html (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,85641.0.html)
Looks like his work is pretty good, but I've not seen progress on it in a while. By the way, here's pics I took for him of my spare OME struts:
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i246/Jeremiah_Junkins/Tracker/OMEStrut008.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i246/Jeremiah_Junkins/Tracker/OMEStrut004.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i246/Jeremiah_Junkins/Tracker/OMEStrut010.jpg)
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REAR shocks. I have never looked for longer front struts, I make spacers for them ;)
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The Calmini kit doesn't include long travel shocks. They're stock travel - limiting the travel of their suspension to stock. The kit includes strut spacers (see red circles) = stock travel:
The Calmini kit does come with longer shocks also the rear arm allows more suspension droop by eliminating the restriction of the stock balljoint. The strut spacers are 2" long and give 2" more travel. This is because when the wishbone hits the bumpstop there is still 2" of travel left on the strut. Fitting the spacers brings down the top strut mounting and allows the extra travel to be used. The OME struts are only 1 1/2" longer so unless you fit a 1/2" spacer you get 1/2" less travel.
I think that this is an important point, it does seem to be widely misunderstood. It is very simple and cheap to get more articulation from the front suspension.
I accept your comments about the ride of the 3" Calmini lift, however they also offer the 2" option which is much more streetable but would require a set of strut spacers to get the extra travel at the front.
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Thanks everyone this is good info
So if I understand this correctly and money not considered
A Calmini\OME hybrid is still best
OME Springs and struts with the rest from a Calmini 3" lift?
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Yes, that's best. But, I still disagree that putting a spacer on a strut increases it's travel, and when I spoke with a Calmini rep, they told me their strut is stock travel with stock-like valving. I've shot some pics of my OME strut, if someone wants to take pics of a calmini one, I think I can find my old struts laying around somewhere. I'm very curious to know now - even if I am wrong - I'd rather the information on here be accurate for other people researching this.
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FYI guys Monroe-Matic shocks part number-32260. They are 20" long extended,. More than enough to compensate for my coil spacers.
Are these the same shocks that you would ship with your coil spacers? (Monroe-Matic shocks part number-32260)
Would you also recomentd changing the front shocks?
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Here is a chart that I modified to show you what the best shock selection is for a Trackick with Jeff's 1.5" front coil spacer (lifts front suspension 2"), 2" rear coil spacer, and 2" front strut spacers. I used the Monroe 37117's. They worked great, provided 1.75" more extended travel than the OEM stock travel, and didn't break my piggie bank.
With Jeff's spacers I was able to mount 30x9.50's on my tracker with very very little rubbing. I took a little hammer and bent the bottom inside edge of my inner fender and now I have no rubbing at all.
Longarch
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Yes, that's best. But, I still disagree that putting a spacer on a strut increases it's travel, and when I spoke with a Calmini rep, they told me their strut is stock travel with stock-like valving. I've shot some pics of my OME strut, if someone wants to take pics of a calmini one, I think I can find my old struts laying around somewhere. I'm very curious to know now - even if I am wrong - I'd rather the information on here be accurate for other people researching this.
The Calmini struts are the same length and travel as the OE struts. The additional travel comes from the change to the top mounting position. The pic below shows a stock strut with no spacer, the spring has been removed and the wishbone is jacked hard against the bumpstop.
(http://www.rhinoman.org/SuzukiStuff/mods/images/strut.jpg)
You can see how much travel is left in the strut, the strut actually has 6" of travel but only uses 4". Adding the spacer between the top of the strut and the mounting allows the entire 6" of travel to be utilised. If you use an OME strut with a spacer then it would be possible to get 7.5" of travel if you had some wider angle CVs.
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Rhinoman that is the best way to try and explain ??? to some folks what Calmini has done to actually increase front end travel.
Kevin
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x2 on the front end Calmini travel
Has anyone heard of a spring replacement for the Calmini 3" OME would need a spacer
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Someone on here bought some springs a couple of months back. I forget who, there was a fair bit of info in the thread.
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Someone on here bought some springs a couple of months back. I forget who, there was a fair bit of info in the thread.
I think that was a shop in Las Vegas. There are some shops in my area so I can get a custom set
Thanks
It would be nice to hear something about RockRats kit
My cousin wants to go with some coil overs for the rear but then it starts again and I would want to do the front as well.
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So - by using a spacer, that extra 1" is compressed, and therefore allowing the suspension to travel down 1" further? So - at max, Calmini's squeezed out 1" more suspension travel? Seems someone could you just as easily replicate this effect with the OME suspension by adding a spacer (or strut mount flip?) getting even more out of the already long-travel OME strut? That would be sweeeeet. I still need to get some pics of the stock strut travel, anyone with a Calmini strut laying around want to take some measurements & post 'em up ???
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Wow, lots of good ideas and as you see, it all depends on what you plan on doing. If you fiddle with your ride enough, you wont have to spend a bunch of money. It makes for a fun time and you learn a bunch about your own ride. Purty soon you can smack up expensive riggs for a little bit of nothing!! Check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBCY2rA7JpA or just tap on the world sign at the bottom of my post.
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Yours is a bit of an exception though - not many people can do all the mods you did, and keep it under $3000.
35" tires & backspaced wheels = $1000
T-Case gears = $500
Front & rear lockers = $500
5.125 gears = $200-$300
And that's not getting into the tube doors, lift & cost of the tracker. But, if you're patient, buy used and have the tools to make your own stuff. That rig is an excellent example of what can be done with a budget. There's not going to be any $3000 Jeeps keeping up with you.
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So - by using a spacer, that extra 1" is compressed, and therefore allowing the suspension to travel down 1" further? So - at max, Calmini's squeezed out 1" more suspension travel? Seems someone could you just as easily replicate this effect with the OME suspension by adding a spacer (or strut mount flip?) getting even more out of the already long-travel OME strut? That would be sweeeeet. I still need to get some pics of the stock strut travel, anyone with a Calmini strut laying around want to take some measurements & post 'em up ???
Exacltly except the strut spacers are 2" long and give you 2" of extra travel. I'm working on fitting the OMEs with the Calmini kit, the problem is the CVs run out of travel. I think that you can get an extra 1/2" of travel with the OMEs and stock wishbones but you would need to double check.
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I'm looking to see if I can fit Porsche 930 CV in somehow to get longer travel... or maybe a Toyota IFS. Mmmmm.... yota IFS.....
And, please - no one link the damn Pirate article. It's NOT an IFS swap, it's just the yota diff.
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Yours is a bit of an exception though - not many people can do all the mods you did, and keep it under $3000.
35" tires & backspaced wheels = $1000
T-Case gears = $500
Front & rear lockers = $500
5.125 gears = $200-$300
And that's not getting into the tube doors, lift & cost of the tracker. But, if you're patient, buy used and have the tools to make your own stuff. That rig is an excellent example of what can be done with a budget. There's not going to be any $3000 Jeeps keeping up with you.
My brakedown was this:
Truck: $450
Transfercase Gears: $650
Valve, headgasket kit and waterpump: $160
Tires: Free from friends jeep
Wheels: $50 from junk yard
Tube doors: Trade for Zuki junk
26 Spline front: $45 from junk yard
Home made body and suspension lift: $120
Camber Bolts $25
Autotrans swap $120
Lockers$500
NSX Nitrous System: $200 complete used system on ebay
Header:$45 found on Samurai in junkyard.
The 5.12 gears came with the manual tranny Sidekick , I kept them and switched out to the autotrans. I have a couple of other small dodads, but that was it. It runs great and I still get to keep all the Zuki parts without changing to a Yota front. If you start out small and work your way up, watch for deals and are willing to do the work yourself, you can do a bunch with a little money. That was my goal, im pretty happy now and may build an exo cage for it later this year.
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The mechanically inclined save tons of money on install costs
I see how for a few grand what an exceptional rig can be built
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I also believe in keeping the body, engine and frame as low to the ground as possibland still clearing big tires, the big tires get you over obsticles with more clearance under the vehicle and keeping it low helps with the center of gravity. you will need to do some cutting of your floorboard and wheel wells, followed by some welding if you choose, or just fold it over on itself. The key for me is to get clearance between the ground and the axles, not the axles and the body. Notice the jeeps taking a different route.(http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Lrp_wicky/1232997821-1.jpg)(http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Lrp_wicky/1232997822.jpg) (http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Lrp_wicky/1232997824.jpg)