ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: mike5721947 on January 10, 2009, 11:52:35 PM
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ok... took the 90's kick covered in slush, mud, dirt and with a smashed grille to the local suzuki dealer last week for a driveline service (308,000km and dont know when it was last done and im not going to be caught outside in the snow doing it myself) they put 80w90 gear oil in everything and only totaled 8 litres of fluid (seemed a bit low for full drain and fill of trans, transfer, and both diffs)
truck doesnt like to shift at all when cold (-20*c outside) wondering if its just the fluid... mech at suzuki said it was whats recommened but im wondering if theres a better fluid out there.
use to have a turbo firefly that was recommened to have gm synchromesh for the transmission (shifted like a dream...) wondering if it would be ok to run in the kick... should flow a bit better when its cold out... but is it going to damage things if its to thin?
might say screw it and take it back in and get them to change it again, the truck was fine when it went in... -40 to -50 degree weather was not where 80w90 was made to be used...
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Most service centers do not carry the correct oil for the Trackers transmissions and transfer cases yet promptly put in the wrong stuff and are happy to charge you for their mistake. They ususally will put in GL5 oil. The Trackicks requires a rating of GL4 and hopefully synthetic. Do not put GL5 in. It will cause the to shift poorly and grind when shifting. Just plain gear oil is also incorrect which will cause the transmission to shift hard and rob you a lot of MPGs when it is in its cold molasses like state. Synthetic GL4 will let the Tracker not to feel like a gutless wonder in cold weather. GL5 oil is for the differentials and again hopefully synthetic so it too does not rob you MPGs and power in the cold.
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i don't want to thread crap but that is a good thing to know because i am getting horible gas millage and could not figure out why. but now that i know this i have regular 80w90 in my tranny.
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i don't want to thread crap but that is a good thing to know because i am getting horrible gas millage and could not figure out why. but now that i know this i have regular 80w90 in my tranny.
It took me a while to figure that out too. I have a long stretch to work that I coast down. In the summer I actually pick up too much speed in the Tracker on this stretch. Last winter it would not even maintain speed and I would have to power though a flatter section. This fall I changed over to all synthetic oils, GL4 in the transfer/trans and GL3 in the diffs. What a difference this winter. It almost coasts as easy as it does in the summer when it is 10 degrees outside. Gear oil is unbelievably thick in the cold (Not to mention the wrong kind of oil). Just remember the transfer case is alway turning when the wheels are turning. Some people tend to thing if you are in two wheel drive the transfer case is not turning so not causing drag. Not true. If the rear wheels are turning gears are turning in the transfer case and the transmission even if the trans is in neutral.
One more thing, don't be fooled buy oil listed as GL3-GL4-GL5 compatible. Each oil is designed for something different from all I have read on the subject.
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I made up a slick, trick batch of T-case juice, you need 1 quart Mobil1 synthetic ATF,
1 quart Mobil1 Synthetic gear oil and 1 quart Lucas Synthetic oil additive, mix all
3 quarts, and put 2 in the t-case, you could use the other quart for a spare or put
it in the diff front or rear, your choice.
This combo makes for a slippery light oil that should improve your fuel mileage
Good Luck
Wild
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how long have you ran this combo. Sounds good but i don't want to hurt anything, also were can i get gl-3 oil. I work at Murray's/Csk/O'Reily auto parts store and all we have even in synthetic is GL-5
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how long have you ran this combo. Sounds good but i don't want to hurt anything, also were can i get gl-3 oil. I work at Murray's/Csk/O'Reily auto parts store and all we have even in synthetic is GL-5
Hey I work for CSK too, I've run 80w90 and 75-90 the 75w90 works good in the winter. I change it allot so I use the 80w90 now, If it's really cold I lt it warm up for a minits and it shifts fine
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ok someone has to give me a real answer what to do... going to go talk with suzuki about it (couldnt shift at all today coming home from work.) had to rev the truck up to 3000 rpm to freakin start moving without stalling... its bad...
so... what for diffs, transfer case, and tranny...
what i dont get is the haynes i have says to use api sae gl-5 80-90. in all... but then you guys say gl4.
anyone have the FSM recomendations?
ACKS FAQS for 1994 sidekick says gl4.... but which viscosity for cold weather (-30*C on the norm) 80-90 for all season...
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ok someone has to give me a real answer what to do... going to go talk with suzuki about it (couldnt shift at all today coming home from work.) had to rev the truck up to 3000 rpm to freakin start moving without stalling... its bad...
so... what for diffs, transfer case, and tranny...
what i dont get is the haynes i have says to use api sae gl-5 80-90. in all... but then you guys say gl4.
anyone have the FSM recomendations?
ACKS FAQS for 1994 sidekick says gl4.... but which viscosity for cold weather (-30*C on the norm) 80-90 for all season...
I have the factory service manual and that is why I suggested using GL4 in the trans and transfer case and GL5 in the diffs in my first post. That is what the manual says!
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A lot of the oils I looked at claimed to be GL4 and GL5 ???
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A lot of the oils I looked at claimed to be GL4 and GL5 ???
I would steer away from those types of oils. GL4 is formulated to work with bronze parts which are basically your syncronizers. GL5 will eat away the bronze parts which is why it is not recommended for manual transmissions.
GL4 http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/Gear&Transmission/pdf/GearplusSAE80W90GL-4.PDF
GL5 http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/Gear&Transmission/pdf/GearplusSAE80W90GL-5GearLubricant.PDF
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i was wondering more of if theres fluid out there that is lighter then 75w85 synthetic. its -30 at the momment and i want to be able to drive my truck easily...
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Is it possible for the oil-geeks to have made an oil that works for both, or is that impossible? If so... I need to get that oil out of my trans :o
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I thought I read something a couple of years ago that said the bad stuff was no longer used in GL-5. However, a google search didn't turn up anything. GL-4 is now on my shopping list.
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im getting annoyed with suzuki now... they are now telling me it can take both 75w90 OR 80w90... well ya... i get that but gl4 or gl5 and is it synthetic? they just arnt getting it... i dont care if it sopposely SHOULD work, i drive it, it doesnt work. i want it to work like it did before.
what makes it even worse... last time i had it in i got a nice low mile 05 xl7 to drive for the day. acually was wanting to buy the truck too. nice, cofortable, and not to different then my kick.
this time i got a 06 sebring... wohooo.... >:( almost wanted to say screw it and not give them the keys to my truck...
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If you don't wheel much and can change the gear oil |removethispart|@ regular intervals I would put 75-90 synthetic in the trans, tcase and diffs It will work all year round
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i wheel it whenever i can. just not as much in the winter (-20 to -30 degree weather and lots of snow...)
its a daily driver which gets some good highway miles thrown on it. (atleast one 9 hour to 12 hour trip back home every year...) probly a good 40-50,000km a year... (had it just over a year and its a good 25,000 plus km from when i got it (with 6 months of that sitting with no use...)
did notice that 80w90 is only soppose to be used down to -20 degrees... amazing how im having problems at -20 and lower...
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I made up a slick, trick batch of T-case juice, you need 1 quart Mobil1 synthetic ATF,
1 quart Mobil1 Synthetic gear oil and 1 quart Lucas Synthetic oil additive, mix all
3 quarts, and put 2 in the t-case, you could use the other quart for a spare or put
it in the diff front or rear, your choice.
This combo makes for a slippery light oil that should improve your fuel mileage
Good Luck
Wild
Darin, you are always up to some homegrown solution, most of which work great, some that just plain blow up. I think your mix will work well. We will see next month on the trail. Oh'ya, check out the video of me owning Anthony's RZR in Arizona. I wish the vid would have transfered clearer, but hey, what can you expect from the enviro. P.S. at least we dont put Toyota parts on our Zuki's !lol.
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oohhh crap, forgot to list the youtube site for the Sidekick Vs. RZR here it is = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBCY2rA7JpA
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dealer is still saying its something other then the fluid making it not shift properly in the cold... but what else would have changed from before the fluid change to after...
they are willing to do the fluid change for no labor if i supply the fluid. still doesnt make it proper (had to make SEVERAL trips to and from dealer to get it all sorted, rental car while work is being done.
so for 70 bucks (price of 75w90 synthetic gl-4 fluid here, 4L) its getting put in for free. (55 dollar labour charge waived) its getting THE PROPER fluid put in for the climate.
dealer stills says 80w90 is the right stuff. and they have had no complaints... i call bull...
going to call up zuki nation (here in town) to see what they recomend... if its 75w90 im going to try and get my money back on the fluid (dealer obviously installed wrong fluid if local ZUKI specialists say so)
what blows me away is how they should know 80w90 doesnt flow at -20 degrees... so why use it in a truck that runs in a climate of down to -45 degrees!!!! freakin local dealer should know that...
also never got a straight answer from them if the stuff they put in it first was gl-4 or gl-5.
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Let me explain why I have researched this topic so much. I wanted to change my Tracker over to synthetic gear oil because it was such a slow slug in the winter compared to warm weather. I assumed my gear oils were not synthetic so cold weather performance was suffering. I was told synthetic GL5 was just fine for the transmission, transfer case and differentials. Following the bad advice, I changed everything over to synthetic GL5. Immediately the Tracker began shifting horribly with grinding in all gears. So I began to research this subject. When I learned that the synchronizers would be damaged by the GL5 I quickly change the the transmission and transfer case to synthetic GL4. The transmission immediately began shift great again. So now I have a great shifting Tracker the runs like it was summer time even though it has been a bitter cold winter. Now I have not had -20 degree temps so I can't say what it will be like when its that cold but we were in single digit temps and I was very happy with the synthetic GL4 in the trans and transfer case as well as the GL5 in the diffs.
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mike5721947,
Do you think the difference between 75w90 and 80w90 is going to be that great? And, $70 seems a bit steep for 4L of fluid.
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mike5721947,
Do you think the difference between 75w90 and 80w90 is going to be that great? And, $70 seems a bit steep for 4L of fluid.
I don't think that would be a great difference between those especially in not extreme cold areas. I am obviously a great believer in the GL4. It is what is listed in the owners manual and the factory service manual. I am sure Suzuki listed it for a very good reason. I think I paid $12 a quart for Amsoil GL4 at our local hardware store. It is amazing how hard it is to track down synthetic GL4. Some people have found it at their local quick lube shops.
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16 and some change a bottle... really the price didnt bother me... im use to getting syncromesh straight from gm for my last car, and it had tranny jobs every 2-3 months!
so once in a year isnt that bad.
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I'm pretty sure gear oil's change interval is longer than 12 months. Even more so with synthetic. Which... is the point of paying the extra $$$ for synthetic.
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manual says 24000km or 12 months...
i do more then 24000km a year unfortunitly... so im probly going to be doing it every year.
with 309,000km im trying to be a bit nicer to my kick... shes gone a good run and is still going strong.
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I was looking at the Synthetic I picked up to put in the diffs. 500,000 mile service life in light duty applications. :D
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so... suzuki dealer is off my list of places to ever go again...
i brought them 4L of fluid (enough to do both trans and transfer case) they only did the transmission fluid change cause it was all i was complaining about...
so i drove the truck 5 minutes down the road to the chevy dealer to get the transfer case fluid changed (didnt feel like waiting another 2 days at the suzuki dealer...) so an hour later and a whole 27 bucks from my pocket i was off with the proper fluids in the truck.
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Maybe I'm a cheap bastard, but I woulda just done it myself. The pump's $10, and it's only pulling out 2 bolts (one to drain, one to fill) to do the whole job.
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cant do anything at the house (condo board crap) and really, 100 bucks to get it done by someone else... also... its -20 outside... i dont feel like getting under my truck with the snow and high winds.
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cant do anything at the house (condo board crap) and really, 100 bucks to get it done by someone else... also... its -20 outside... i dont feel like getting under my truck with the snow and high winds.
I'm with you.
So, how's it shifting?
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haha no joke you guys are for real? so if am losing speed on a hill coastin its probably my tranny and t-case fluid? haha i was wondering why its so bad, correct me if im wrong is that the case? i live in washington and go boardin 4 times a week, the hills are 6% grade and thats pretty steep and i lose speed in nutral and have to actually give it gas in 5th. lol so if i change my oil it will correct this?
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shifts great now...
also, wind resistance is a big factor on coasting with these trucks...
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This is why I have only changed these fluids in the spring/summer. I would stick with the 75wx80 and GL4...just because YOU KNOW these will work for sure, GL5 is what is questionable...So stick with the 75wx80 and GL4 ;)
And since its been awhile since you last changed it, of course your old oil was thinner than this newer stuff becuase the viscosity of the oil has broken down over the length of time. So this newer stuff, especially when cold, is gonna be really thick and seem totally different. I have always changed my fluids in the spring/summer because that gives the oil 4-5 months before winter hits to help break it down more.