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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: SNJSamurai on November 12, 2008, 08:37:16 PM

Title: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on November 12, 2008, 08:37:16 PM
so im debating to put a 1.6 8v carbed in my carbed 1.3 88 samurai. i was doing some searching and notice to things and im alittle confused about  ???

you dont have to modify the head to put the 1.3 dizzy on it or you do

and the motor mounts can u use stock ones?

i have plenty of clearence i have a 3 inch body lift and 5 inch suspension lift

and any other tips would be great guys



im going to try to do it in one day
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on November 12, 2008, 11:14:48 PM
Ok, read on rocky road and trail tough, the kit comes with engine mount relocators.

so obviously the mounts have to be relocated but can I use 1.3 mounts or do i need 1.6 mounts. I looked at the pictures for the 1.6 and 1.3. They look the same but cost different.

I'm staying away from petroworks because I'm on a budget and I plan on doing the high clearance x-member later so the transmission mount be useless to me.

On rocky road, it says you can use your 1.3 dizzy so I answered my own question there. But I found out it needs a fuel pump. Also read in Acks F.A.Q. that I need a regulator too?

Oh should I buy intake and exhaust gaskets for a 1.3 or 1.6? Also do I need the o rings for the dizzy too?

My clutch is pretty good now but should i replace it? I know the motor will be out but its also simple to take out. So if i had to replace it later no big deal.

Thanks guys. Any of your help it would be great and very appreciated

 My 1.3 is just shot and I know it won't make it this winter and my buddy that owns a junkyard says he has a sidekick with a 1.6 8v with 105k. I can have it for 200 bucks as long as i cut him a break on labor for the motor I'm building for him. 418 ford small block stroker for his 67 bronco



Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on November 13, 2008, 03:29:33 PM
can any one help me?  :'(

i know i need the 1.6 starter and alternator

Still dont know if i need 1.3 mounts or 1.6 mounts

If i need gaskets for the new dizzy

Need a adjustable F.P.R.?
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: phloop on November 13, 2008, 08:37:58 PM
Just a little help. I believe the 1.3 and 1.6 mounts are the same in mounting just that the 1.6 is a stronger mount. so your 1.3 mounts should work. Also do a search on the Dodge 318 truck mounts. And the Dist. use's O'rings not gasakets. And as you need to put an electric FP in your rig and your running a carb the FP reg is a good idea.

 
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on November 13, 2008, 09:48:52 PM
thanks a whole lot man.

so im assuming that it takes the same o rings as the 1.3
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on November 15, 2008, 08:00:43 AM
I used all the 1.3 stuff and just slotted or redrilled holes to get everything to line up. I had to grind a big chunk off the back of the starter motor to get that to fit. If you use the metal water galley from the 1.3 then the hoses all hook up too. I opened out the inlet ports on the 1.3 manifold to suit the 1.6 head and used an opened up a 1.3 manifold gasket. The 1.3 exhaust manifold was a perfect fit. As long as you use a low pressure fuel pump you don't need a regulator.
The 1.3 dizzy can be used but you also need to fit the 90deg drive from the 1.3 as well, O-ring as far as I recall is the same.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on November 15, 2008, 07:12:21 PM
what do you have to do the pulleys? if your using the 1.6 alt do you have to change the pulleys?

well i got the motor today but my friend ended up taking it back. I never checked it at the yard but i should of because when i got home i pulled the plugs and tried to turn the crank and she wasnt moving.

I pulled the head off and soaked the cylinder walls with wd-40 let it sit for 2 hours soaked it again then tried to crank on it again and it broke loose but 2 piston rings on 2 pistons decided to brake. Here to find out there was at least a gallon of water in the oil pan.

So, Im backing looking for a motor. This really sucks because I was looking forward to doing this swap but the search is still on. my friend is calling other yards to find one for me.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on November 16, 2008, 05:57:57 AM
I only had a bare 1.6 engine so I used the 1.3 alternator and all other ancillaries. I carefully redrilled the 1.3 bottom pulley to a 4 bolt fixing.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on November 16, 2008, 05:57:47 PM
alright sweet thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: idaholwb on November 17, 2008, 08:06:32 PM
 You use one engine mount bracket from the 1.6 and the other from the 1.3. Use the kit from Trailtough. The crank pulley and waterpump pulley use from the 1.6. The starter and alternator from the 1.6. Do no grinding on the starter or the block. It's a lot simpler than you are making it out to be.
 The best version of this swap that I've found to do is use the 1.3 head on the 1.6 8V short block. You will need the 1.6 conversion kit, head gasket set, timing belt for the 1.6 8V, timing gear for the cam off the 1.6 because the timing belt tooth profile is different. It has incredible low end and mid-range torque. And there is no need for an electric fuel pump or miscellaneous wiring. To simplify what mounts you need, but it costs more, is to get the engine conversion kit from Petroworks. It has full circle motor mounts that lower the engine and slightly offset it to the passenger side to allow for hood clearance and manifold clearance for the 16V 1.6, it also has a lowered transmission mount.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on November 17, 2008, 09:10:45 PM
thanks for the info. 

Im picking up a whole car from bentparts when i come back from flordia.

he said the 1.6 just had a new clutch put in it when he bought it for parts. I remember reading something about a 1.6 clutch wont work in the 1.3 transmission.  :-\

oh will a 1.6 header bolt up to the samurai exhaust? or should i just use the 1.3 header?
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: phloop on November 17, 2008, 09:46:19 PM
I only had a bare 1.6 engine so I used the 1.3 alternator and all other ancillaries. I carefully redrilled the 1.3 bottom pulley to a 4 bolt fixing.

Didn't the 1.3's already have the 4 bolt hole pulley?
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on November 18, 2008, 04:13:03 AM
I've seen a 1.6 clutch used but the guy refaced the flywheel and redrilled the mounts. Search the web for Nitromax. The 1.3 header looked a better fit to the 1.6 header than the 1.6 header so I just used that. I don't know if the 1.6 header will match up to the 1.3 exhaust, never tried it.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on November 18, 2008, 04:14:35 AM
I only had a bare 1.6 engine so I used the 1.3 alternator and all other ancillaries. I carefully redrilled the 1.3 bottom pulley to a 4 bolt fixing.

Didn't the 1.3's already have the 4 bolt hole pulley?

Ah yes you're right. What I meant to say was that I carefully redrilled the 1.3 bottom pulley to a 5 bolt fixing.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on November 18, 2008, 10:17:40 PM
I've seen a 1.6 clutch used but the guy refaced the flywheel and redrilled the mounts. Search the web for Nitromax. The 1.3 header looked a better fit to the 1.6 header than the 1.6 header so I just used that. I don't know if the 1.6 header will match up to the 1.3 exhaust, never tried it.

That is a smart idea with how he drilled the pressure plate for the hole in the 1.3 flywheel. when i pull the motor. I'm going to see how much life is in my 1.3 clutch, then I'll decide. He did the 1.6 clutch because of the supercharger. (wish we had that in the states) Right now my clutch don't slip so hopefully when I'm done the swapping the 1.6, the clutch doesn't start to slip. If it does oh well  :-\

Thanks for the info on the header too. Just wasn't sure if the 1.3 header will reduce the power of the motor.

Ordering all my parts tomorrow so when i get home for Florida, they'll be waiting for me.  ;D
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on December 08, 2008, 09:11:29 PM
So, Im back from Fla and I got my parts.

I ordered my stuff from LowRange. They are very nice and very easy to talk too. No missing items and no mess ups. I recommend them fully!

This is what i ordered:

Trail Tough adapter plate

Low psi fuel pump

Gm alt. bracket

Dist O-ring and shank ring

Sloppy Shifter Fix Kit

Venturi tube

Soft Top

and while i was in fla at the turkey rod run in daytona i got a gm alt, autometer shift light and kc daylighters

I have some other questions  :-\ 

is the elec fuel pump water proof? it doesn't say anything about it being able to be submerged in water.

Also i was going to mount the pump in the engine bay but it says "must be within 12 vertical inches from fuel tank bottom". So, I dont know if that means as long as its not a foot higher than the bottom of the tank or it has to be also close.

Also should i use the 1.6 intake and exhaust gaskets or the 1.3s? im using the 1.3 intake and exhaust but im not sure what gaskets i should buy. i might just buy all 4 and return what im not going to use.

thanks again

also if you would like pics of my new parts  :) let me know ill post them

Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Drone637 on December 09, 2008, 09:12:29 AM
A good place to mount the fuel pump is to replace the stock fuel filter.  There is plenty of room and the fuel lines are already cut. :)

The pump's are usually water proof.  Since your fuel line is a sealed system the only issue is electrical, and DC will run under water. 
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on December 09, 2008, 06:13:25 PM
i saw that today when i was trying to figure out where to mount it. I'm just going to have a fuse that lights when it is blown in the cab so if it does go, I'll know exactly what happen at that instant.

thanks drone
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on December 10, 2008, 04:09:32 AM
I'm just going to have a fuse that lights when it is blown in the cab so if it does go, I'll know exactly what happen at that instant.

You may not need to, aftermarket pumps are usually quite noisy.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: lowrider on December 10, 2008, 04:20:42 AM
All that to put in a 1.6 wouldn't it be better to rebuild and beef up the 1.3?
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Drone637 on December 10, 2008, 11:52:13 AM
All that to put in a 1.6 wouldn't it be better to rebuild and beef up the 1.3?

Not really.  The stock US 1.3 is 65hp base, where the 8v 1.6 is 85hp and the 16v is 95.  So if your going to beef up an engine the 1.6 is a much better starting point.  Then you get into price vs performance.  Your going to spend more money on the 1.6 conversion then just putting a new exhaust on the 1.3, but if you need the extra power you might as well only spend money once.

Of course, I still wheel with the stock 970cc in my SJ-410.  :D

When I put the electric fuel pump in I wired up a relay in the engine compartment.  That way I can make sure it is getting full power off of the battery instead of going through the electrical system.  The second pump I bought is pretty quiet but noticeable if the key is on but the engine is not running.  If I let it idle for 15 minutes or so the pump will heat up and start to cavitate due to lack of fuel going through keeping it cool.  But I don't have a return line like you would with a FI setup.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on December 10, 2008, 07:06:16 PM
LOWRIDER  The money i have into the 1.6 swap is not that much. if i only added what i really needed to complete the swap would be 340 dollars. i was lucky on getting the motor for so cheap.

Drone637 i am keeping it carbed. i have everything i need to make it fi but i like the simplicity. i work all day on new cars dealing with stupid elec problems id like to start my car and worry if my tps sensor or maf or injector will go or something stupid like that.  thanks for the heads up on letting it idle to long the pump will start to over heat maybe ill find a fpr that i can run a return line some how.

the only thing i dont like about the instructions is it only tell you how to mount the adapter plate. it doesnt tell you anything about what flywheel/clutch u should use. i know i have to use the 1.3 flywheel/clutch but if i didnt have this forum id be guessing
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: idaholwb on December 10, 2008, 10:11:16 PM
 Actually the carb'ed 1.3 only had a whopping 53hp. The injected version got 66. If you do the 1.3 head on it instead you will have much better low-end and mid-range power without having to swear at the fuel pump issue. Absolutely no wiring to deal with.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on December 11, 2008, 12:19:32 AM
everyone is telling me that. im just going to try how she is with the 1.6. plus the big thing about this swap is able to drive comfortably on the highway not to have more power for wheeling even though thats a big plus :P

 i dont mind wiring thats my specialty  ;D

i plan on doing a weber carb so ill end up doing a elec fuel pump. i was looking at the FSM and the samurai has a return line so i can tap right into that when i get the regulator. i got to search what psi is so posed to be going to the carb.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Drone637 on December 11, 2008, 01:43:08 AM
I thought the 1.0L had the 55hp, and the 1.3L had 65hp base.

I know the multi-port 1.3L is rated at 73hp.  :D
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on December 11, 2008, 05:06:35 AM
I thought the 1.0L had the 55hp, and the 1.3L had 65hp base.

I know the multi-port 1.3L is rated at 73hp.  :D

Probably depends on location. In the UK the SJ410 is 45bhp, the SJ/Sammy 63bhp and the Jimny (G13B) 80bhp. The 1.6 has a lot more torque and makes it lower down.
The 1.6 has a bigger fuel pump (carb models), bigger oil pump and bigger main and big end bearings. I'm sure that it would be a lot more durable than a tuned 1.3
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: lowrider on December 14, 2008, 06:40:49 PM
So you can put the 1.3 intake and headers on a 1.6?
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: ROSS on December 14, 2008, 07:04:51 PM
yes.  thats 1.6 8-valve
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on December 15, 2008, 04:16:26 AM
So you can put the 1.3 intake and headers on a 1.6?

With a little bit of modification you can use all the 1.3 ancillaries. I did this when I fitted the 1.6 8V into my pickup.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on December 25, 2008, 12:51:47 AM
so i got my tracker its in my backyard  ;D
im trying to look at the headers and see if there's a difference.

  Does anyone know where to get header bolts if they break? also i know ive asked this about 4times but never know there could be someone new looking at the post but im useing the 1.3 intake so should i use the 1.3 intake gasket or 1.6 gasket. the same goes with the header if i use the 1.3 header should i use the 1.3 or the 1.6
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on December 25, 2008, 06:39:06 AM
The inlet manifold on the 1.3 has smaller ports than the 1.6. The 1.6 inlet gasket that I had wasn't a great match to the ports so I opened up a 1.3 gasket to fit.

Modified gasket on 1.3 inlet manifold:

(http://www.rhinoman.org/SuzukiStuff/SJ/13gasket.jpg)
 

Then stuck the manifold in my cheapo Workmate copy and broke out the flexidrive and a grinding tool

(http://www.rhinoman.org/SuzukiStuff/SJ/grinder.jpg)

I opened up the holes to the size of the gasket. There is a galley on one side of each of the ports, I just smoothed this out down to the level of the casting mark.

(http://www.rhinoman.org/SuzukiStuff/SJ/one_done.jpg)

On a carb engine the 1.6 fuel pump is bigger too so the manifold also needs a little clearancing in that area too

(http://www.rhinoman.org/SuzukiStuff/SJ/around_fuel_pump.jpg)


The alloy is really easy to work with and even taking it steady it was only about 1/2hrs work.

Surprisingly the 413 exhaust manifold was a good match to the 1.6 head so I didn't touch it, I used the 1.3 exhaust gasket too.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on December 27, 2008, 04:13:40 PM
DUDE YOUR THE GREATEST

Ive been looking all over for that information. I really appreciate the pictures and all. Im going to dig into it tomorrow.

I ordered my clutch kit today on ebay.

ive been checking out my 1.6  ;D she looks leak free but im still debating to do a head gasket. I'm getting a timing belt kit, water pump, thermostat, going to check all the vacuum lines. make it short im just going to inspect it very good.

Oh Rhinoman, How did u pull your motor? engine and trans together or pull the trans then the motor? my cherry picker is to short for my truck hehe so i think im going to let all the air out of my tires or lower the air on to jackstands?

Again thanks everyone -bob

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k299/EuroMaddness/img184.jpg)
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: ROSS on December 27, 2008, 04:59:23 PM
when it's lifted  put the floorjack under it and pull the front tires .  you can still move it on the jack and it gives you more clearence
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on December 27, 2008, 09:08:59 PM
i do it on dirt, so i try not to move it that much.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: Rhinoman on December 28, 2008, 06:32:29 AM
The 1.6 was delivered on a pallet, the 1.3 was pulled seperately. I fitted up the 1.6 then discovered that the top engine/gearbox bolts wouldn't fit, the holes through the bellhousing need to be opened out. I tried to drop the gearbox seperately but couldn't get it out so I pulled the engine again. I then refitted engine and box together.
I was working on a loose surface too so I know the problems, it was easier to push the SJ backwards and forwards than to try and move the hoist.
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on December 28, 2008, 02:04:10 PM
thats a reason why i bought the trail tough kit so u dont have to do any drilling it comes with stepper bolts. i was thinking pulling the front end off but didnt get to look at it today was to busy trying to fix my heat
Title: Re: Another 1.3 to 1.6 conversion question
Post by: SNJSamurai on January 07, 2009, 10:58:00 PM
So I finally found a replacement exhaust manifold stud and nut. But here's the tricky part it only pops up if I look under tracker, if I look under samurai I get nothing. Now it is a tracker motor but i am using the samurai header. Will this work? It should if the factory bolt/stud works. Here is the link.

http://www.google.com/products?q=1991+suzuki+tracker+exhaust+manifold+stud&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en&show=dd (http://www.google.com/products?q=1991+suzuki+tracker+exhaust+manifold+stud&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en&show=dd)

P.S. also got my new clutch kit too.  :) I got everything I need pretty much. Now I need some nice days to start working on her  :(