ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Build Diaries, How-To, DIY => Topic started by: v-stone on February 02, 2008, 08:34:17 PM
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Samurais, like most, brought me into the world of 4wheel'n zuks. Now that my family has grown the sami isn't so practical anymore so I turned my attention towards a 93 4 door sidekick. I have seen many pictures of built sidekicks sitting on 35s-37s and they look great. I am going to start out with a little more modest goal in mind than that because of budget and it needs to be my daily driver.
My plan is:
2.5" body lift
2" coil spacers
30"-31" tires.
tube bumpers
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I'm close to finishing my 2.5" body lift. Its square tubing boxed on one end and 1/4 boxed on the other.
I'll try to post pics. In the mean time if any one wants to show off there kick/tracker please post it, any tips or tricks are also appreciated.
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The best thing to do for looking at builds is the Members Ride thread.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=35.0
You can find just about any build in there. Great place to browse through when your looking for ideas. :)
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Thanks for the link.
My body lift is on. Took about 5 hours to install with limited tools and no experience with body lifts. Lots of fun and it looks good.
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So throw some pictures up already. :)
Half the fun of working on these vehicles is you can do the work yourself. Good to know everything worked out.
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hope you get to see the pictures
if not go here: http://themontaguefamily.blogspot.com/
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Hey Vstone, do you have the 5 spd or do you have the auto??? I am wondering what you have gear wise in the thirds,,,
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5 speed manual. 5.12 r&p
shaved the fenders down a little and put some 33" skinny BFG on it yesterday. It still rubs when I hit a bump or turn sharp. My plan on fixing it is a little more trimming, sledge hammer and 2" more of lift.
How can people run 35s?
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35's with toy axles and a body lift....
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How bout 36's with Suzuki Axles while keeping your IFS...I can only dream of my kick getting this big!
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/346906/4 ;D
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That rig looks great... I would worry about breaking stuff with out building up the front end....
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man good work i love it. i want mine that tall. is it top heavy?
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I think I would need to go with toy axles before going to big on the tires. I am really liking my 33" skinnies.
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V-stone, question for ya. I have read I don't even remember how many arguments on wide tires vs. skinny tires. Wide floats, good on deep stuff, bad on grass, good on sand and goo. Skinny digs, good on stuff up to the framerails, great on grass, not the best on sand and ok on goo. So many people disagree on what tires to put on what rigs it gives me a headache. I am going to be getting some 34's soon, but I don't know if I would prefer 9.50's or 12.50's. You say you like your skinny tires, do you think that Trackicks are better off riding on skinnies, or wide tires ??? Thanks for your help!
P.S. I wheel in no sand ever, very little water (none?) not insanely deep mud, and very few rocks. Hope that helps some?
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One more thing I forgot, how much of a difference do tires make performance-wise (acceleration, braking, handling) based on width. I've read alot about how even the same diameter tires have a huge difference depending on their width.
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V-stone, question for ya. I have read I don't even remember how many arguments on wide tires vs. skinny tires. Wide floats, good on deep stuff, bad on grass, good on sand and goo. Skinny digs, good on stuff up to the framerails, great on grass, not the best on sand and ok on goo. So many people disagree on what tires to put on what rigs it gives me a headache. I am going to be getting some 34's soon, but I don't know if I would prefer 9.50's or 12.50's. You say you like your skinny tires, do you think that Trackicks are better off riding on skinnies, or wide tires ??? Thanks for your help!
P.S. I wheel in no sand ever, very little water (none?) not insanely deep mud, and very few rocks. Hope that helps some?
I was just having this conversation with my brother yesterday. We were deciding on what tires we were going to get. He has a Toyota and has 32x10.5 TSL radials now, he said he is through with running a 10.5 due to the fact that they just like to dig in so hard. Now he wants a 33x13.5 and is telling me to order the same tire when he does. I think the max that i would go is 12.5.
Tracks/kicks and samis don't weigh that much, so they don't need a super wide tire to keep them up. When it comes down to it, its all personal preference and about what tire you happen to like the look of. It shouldn't be to big of a headache, every tire is going to have its pros and cons.
I think im going to with a 34x12.5
My .02
Amilla
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If I was running a sami again I would like a wider tire than 9.5. But, the 33 skiny looks and fits great under the sidekick (with a little trimming). I also haven't notised to much of a power loss and I think its because the more narrow tire. street performance/mgp is a big deal to me in this rig because it is my daily and I drive a lot. For hight, mpg, power and looks is why I love this tire.
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Rear fenders are trimmed and finished.
took it wheel'n and it did pretty good for being stock with oversized tires. Needs lower gears and more height.
Purchased 2" lift from jeff1997 that should be here for my next outing. excited!
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I purchased an additional t-case today. My plans are to cut the bottom front output off and add a sami t-case. Dual t-case with all custom mounts should be sweet! Got it all planned out, just needs some fine tuning and a few more parts, toyota drive lines, adapters, shackle bushings (for fabbed t-case mounts) and some lovely steel.
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2" lift is on and it looks good.
Purchased the spacers from jeff1997
Fabbed my own strut spacers (may change in the future to correct tire tilt)
'95 mustang rear shocks
Also started adding to the front bumper
Its getting closer!!!
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lookin way good!!!!
Tire tilt???
You can slot your struts for camber adjustment...
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tire tilt is an issue. Because my strut spacer has separate bolts from top to bottom I was planning on off setting the top of the strut to correct it. But thats not to high on the list right now.
Thanks for the complement!
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lookin way good!!!!
Tire tilt???
You can slot your struts for camber adjustment...
i did a search for this but didnt come up with anything is there any info of doin this somewhere
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I saw it somewhere but really all you do is remove tire, take out top bolt, smack mount into top (levers over bottom bolt), and slot top hole in strut to new location of mount (back.) I did mine with plain jane drill bits and a cordless (nice unhardened mild!)
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Got my exhaust in the 1st of May. Doug Thorley header, 32"(long) cherry bomb muffler and 2" exhaust all the way out. Sounds good! Here is a picture of the header.
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Nice job v-stone, Kick looks real good! Did you have to use a spring compressor to get the front spring to drop out of the way? I am i the middle of building a lift for my sidekick that is very similar to yours. i made coil spacers for the back out of steel, I was trying to get my front spring to drop enough to let me try them, but it would not. I haven't made the spacers for the front yet because I am not sure they are the same size. My rear ones worked like a charm with the shocks from a crown vic.
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I used some spring compressors but ended up dropping the A-arm any way. 2" spacers on the back 1.5" spacers on the front.
Thanks for the complements.
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Loving the kicker dont white 4 doors look bada$$
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finally got the bumper finished. Here is the pics of the finished product.
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oh man thats so sweet dude
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that IS a sweet bumper
more pics if you got em
:)
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I purchased an additional t-case today. My plans are to cut the bottom front output off and add a sami t-case. Dual t-case with all custom mounts should be sweet! Got it all planned out, just needs some fine tuning and a few more parts, toyota drive lines, adapters, shackle bushings (for fabbed t-case mounts) and some lovely steel.
This is what I wanna see pics of! I was thinking along the same lines. I already have the Sammy t-case. keep us posted on the progress!
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I purchased an additional t-case today. My plans are to cut the bottom front output off and add a sami t-case. Dual t-case with all custom mounts should be sweet! Got it all planned out, just needs some fine tuning and a few more parts, toyota drive lines, adapters, shackle bushings (for fabbed t-case mounts) and some lovely steel.
This is what I wanna see pics of! I was thinking along the same lines. I already have the Sammy t-case. keep us posted on the progress!
I may have gotten myself into a mess with the dual t-case. As fare as I've gotten with it is holding the sami case in place to see how it would line up. Its a big project to do on a daily driver.
As for more pics on the bumper, here goes. Thanks for the complements.
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Take lots of pics - I'm going to follow soon I hope!
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Check this out! Look under gearing Kicker 3 I think it is
www.ottindustries.com
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I see you added spring spacers, but you were running 33" tires with just a body lift & trimming at first? I want to go to 33" tires as well, but not sure how to get clearance.
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I had a 2.5" body lift, trimmed the front of the rear fenders, trimmed the back of the front fenders and took a hammer to the inside rear of the front fenders. I still rubbed when I hit the bumps until I installed the 2" coil spacers.
Hind sight-4" of lift before installing 33"
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Found some numbers for running a dual t-case using a sidekick and a samurai t-case. High gear will be reduced by 41% that means at 75 mph I will be at 4400 rpm with 33" tires.
Over all gear ratio is:
stock-34.438: 1
Dual-76.845: 1
The optional ratios for the cases:
1.41: 1
2.27: 1
2.55: 1
4.11: 1
At 1000 rpm in low range I'll be going 1.28 mph, stock 2.88.
Its a lot of work and may not be worth it in the long run. If there is a big snag it may go undone.
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Been toying with this idea myself...seems to me the biggest snags would be splitting the kick case and mating the sammy to it. Gotta split the case to do away with the front output. then mate the 2 cases in the shortest way possible. From there it is just a matter of mounting or moving a cross member.
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My plan is to cut the lower front out put off and keep the two cases separate. Its going under a 4 door so length isn't a huge issue. The intermediate will be short as posable so not to go to long.
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You could use the output yoke from the kick and the flanged yoke from the sammy. The intermediate shaft would be just a u-joint. Be sure to post some pics when you start the project.
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hillbillydave, thats what I was thinking. I'm a little concerned about movement because just a single u-joint isn't going to allow as much movement between the 2 cases.
Should I be concerned?
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Here is some progress.
I've started to cut the case and have made a bracket to replace the side mount on the lower half of the case. The front drive shaft will go by the new bracket where the lower output shaft is now. (post more pics with progress)
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v-stone, I think you are right, the one u-joint will not allow for much movement. I was thinking that the two cases would need to be tied together on the same mounts so that movement was kept to a minimum. I was planning to connect them without a u-joint, keeping them as close together as possible. This would keep the driveshafts as close as possible to the original length. I have a two door, so length is an issue.
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I was planing on making a coupler from the rear slip-yoke that comes from the tracker t-case output shaft. Figure that's the way to get them the closest & mate the transfer cases.
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Exactly the direction I was going, Jeremiah. Slip joint with a welded on flange. Right now, my plans are still in my head, but I will be designing soon....
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I was out in the shop working, and thinking what to do about connecting the 2 t-cases when under my table I saw a slip yoke from a samurai drive shaft. It fits in the 95 sidekick t-case pertectly. So that should save a little time and $. Exciting
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The only problem I see with having one u-joint to mate the cases is that u-joint will not lubricate itself very well because it will not "wobble". I think the angle of the driveshaft is what keeps the u-joint alive because it rotates the cups. Just my theory.
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Must admit, the slip yoke thing wasn't my idea. I've done a lot of reading on this ;D I just don't know if I'm brave enough / have the fab skills to do it on my own. But paying someone else $700 to do it for me??? That's $$$ that could go into a welder, and still have $$$ left over to pay a professional welder to tig & a machine shop to do whatever I need done. I doubt I could make something as nice as Rock 4x though :(
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Started making my mounts for the 2nd t-case. I'm using large sami spring bushings. I'll get some pics up when farther along.
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Well, the sidekick has taken back seat to all the other responsibility I have. I also haven't been building because I've been rebuilding. Right now my front drive train is broken (diff) for the second time. Its good encouragement to stick to my original plans of dual t-case and toyota fj40 axles.
I have got the sidekick t-case front output shaft cut off and almost ready to be welded up. hope it will give me enough room to run a drive shaft past.
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Someone here is making a t-case gear reduction box(?) using the kick t-case and allowing you to bolt on the sami t-case. I can't remember who it is, but they are also building a 6" bolt on kick IFS lift kit... Anyone know who I am talking about? Anyway that may help with the gearing/flange deal.
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It's rock4x4.com ;D
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the kick is lookin sweet sam i really like the bumper, that first pic with all of us at the five mile parking lot was the last time i saw you, we talked about hte dual cases my idea was to mate them but ive been slammed with work so all my projects are on hold, im right in the middle of linking the sami for a tj coil kit, and the tracker is my dd. my plan was to mate the cases with 2 flanges back to back shortening and strenthining the drivetrain. id like to doa dual case set up for my sami also since i run the track/kick automatic putting the track/kick case back on would be a breeze if i hadnt already sold it :-\ heres a recent pic of the sami
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Your sami is looking good.
I'm going to mate the sami case with a sami slip yoke. It fits perfect into the sidekick case and will bolt right up to the sami case, no mods needed. The only problem with that is having is having only one u-joint, I'm worried about it becoming too weak.
I'm dropping the sidekick t-case off at the welding shop on monday. He gave me the rundown of what he is going to do, its going to look awesome!
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It's rock4x4.com ;D
I can't get the page up.
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It's rock4x4.com ;D
I can't get the page up.
Try this:
http://www.rock4xfabrication.com/
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put the samurai t-case in place to see what length the rear drive shaft would be. After some cutting the case was in place, the drive shaft length will need to be 29.5" long. I've been told that the front drive shaft on a samurai is 27.25" fully compressed with 3" of slip, toss a spacer on (already have) and its a good start for going down the road.
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Got both cases in tonight. I still need to make side mounts for the sami case. Here is some pictures of the progression.
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The yellow bracket (is not attached to bar in pic) is to stabilize movement between the cases. I will be using the large samurai spring bushings to make mounts on both sides. better pics to come.
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Looking good! 8)
Still planning on doing this myself. So you do have a u-joint between the cases? how is the shifter lining up? My guesstimation was telling me that it will be very close to coming up through the same hole as the stock shifter hole.
Looking forward to seeing the completed project!!
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here it is installed. I still need to make one more mount and rebend the shifters, not to mention a few more bugs.
I did use a 1 u-joint intermediate shaft. The shifters can come up through the original hole as you can see , but will be in the way of each other without bending.
I used a stock length front drive shaft from a samurai with a spacer. To bolt it to the axle I just replaced the smaller flange with the larger one. The u-joints are the same so it was as easy as 1 2 3 (wish I would have known that before on other projects).
more to come on this
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Awesome! The rear driveshaft doesn't seem to have much angle to it, but then it is a four door. Waiting to hear the road test!!
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can you show more pics of how the two cases connect? Got bigger pics?
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I'll need to take more pics after it is completely solid. Right now its in and drivable but not bomb prof. I do have bigger pics but can't post them. I can email them to you if you want to post them for us.
Road test. 32 mph on the radar at 2000 rpm in 5th gear/ high range. After replacing my slip yoke on the shaft there is no vibration. Can't shift the sidekick t-case and don't know why.
more to come
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Waiting patiently for an update :D
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Waiting patiently for an update :D
Sorry, no updates on the dual cases. I couldn't get the sidekick t-case to shift so I pulled it back out and put the original stuff back in. I will take it apart and see whats holding it up, any suggestion would be nice. It might not go back in until winter is over.
I am working on putting a drivers side CV shaft on the passanger side. I should have it finished in a couple days. 1st cut the flange off drivers axle shaft. 2nd cut input shaft off the passenger shaft. I then had them turned in a lathe to insure they will be centered when complete. Here's what it looks like so far.
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Finished the driver-cv axle swap today. I had to cut part of the 3rd member mounting bracket off to clear the bolts for the axle.
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one more, axles sitting side by side to show length.
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Thanks for the information and photo's. I am converting a sammi rear diff housing to a front tracker housing, and have just welded in the mounting brackets (in the same place as stock). After I get it installed, I planned on working on the stub shaft modification. It appears that I should have the same mounting bracket problems as you have.
Much better to know in advance.
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After I installed my body lift I was having problems with my t-case shifter boot pushing it out of low range. I finally solved that problem by making my own out of rubberized cloth. Just installed it tonight. Looks good and doesn't pull on the shifter.
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Out wheel'n and busted the front dif mount. Shouldn't have cut that third bolt off. Here is the damage and how I (hopefully) fixed it. I couldn't just put the stock bracket back on because the mod cv axle.
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Finally got the dual t-case done and working properly last night!!! Its awesome. The rear drive line is vibrating bad because its worn on the slip.
Here is a picture before its in the car
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Here it is under the zuk
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how sluggish was your rig before the dual tcases on the 33's? looks good..... thinking about trying this instead of spending 500 on gears...
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how sluggish was your rig before the dual tcases on the 33's? looks good..... thinking about trying this instead of spending 500 on gears...
I haven't added it up yet, but I'm into this setup about 400. plus alot of work. I've got the 16valve engine and 33x9.5 tires. There was a power loss with the bigger tires but not sluggish at all. My top speed is around 50mph, not fun for a daily driver.
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Waiting patiently for an update :D
Sorry, no updates on the dual cases. I couldn't get the sidekick t-case to shift so I pulled it back out and put the original stuff back in. I will take it apart and see whats holding it up, any suggestion would be nice. It might not go back in until winter is over.
I am working on putting a drivers side CV shaft on the passanger side. I should have it finished in a couple days. 1st cut the flange off drivers axle shaft. 2nd cut input shaft off the passenger shaft. I then had them turned in a lathe to insure they will be centered when complete. Here's what it looks like so far.
Do you have the Hagen widening mod? Or, were you able to machine close enough to make it w/o widening?
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Did you DIY the dual cases? If so - more pics & info please!
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i haven't done the widening mod. I was able to machine it close enough to be the same length as the stock one, which caused problems with the mount (see earlier post).
I have done the dual cases myself. I have a bad vibration with it still that might make me go back to square one, again. pic of shaft between cases
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Why not cut the slip yolk from one of the old d-shafts, and use that to couple the output of tracker case to the input of sami case? That would allow you to make a married setup which WAY increases the reliability... would kill the vibes too.
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Looks good. Nice info and pics on the build.
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Thanks for the complements.
Having one u-joint means less time on a lathe I don't have. I'll be adding one more bracket to hold thing together and if that doesn't work, hopefully I can borrow a lathe.
I have added a new larger air filter. Its giving me a little better millage and power.
Just picked up a samurai axle to through a SAS swap in the mix of everything else. Planning on using yj leaf springs.
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Something to consider is the older Trooper springs. Same length as the yj, as wide as toyotas, but 1.5-2" more arch.... and offset pin.... Also, people report doing sami rears up front a success....
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I have YJ spring already. I have an old trooper with springs too, didn't know they are off set.
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Back to the Dual t-case. (sorry I'm jumping around)
After redesigning the second bracket for my dual t-case I finally got it right. Its going to work magic, I think. I still need to clean and paint it, but here is some pics.
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more pics of Dual t-case.
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So many options on how to build our 4 doors.... I will share my secrets if you share yours!!!
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So many options on how to build our 4 doors.... I will share my secrets if you share yours!!!
Absolutely!!! We are going to have some sweet 4doors in these parts.
The second bracket helped immensely but didn't fix the problem. I've thought about building it more like the OTT kicker case and may end up doing it that way after one more attempt. Drivelines, shifters, time and the speedometer cable are reasons that I don't want to dive into DIY OTT kicker case.
Anyone have a good lathe?
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So what exactly is the issue you are facing here?
This might be silly, but if you were worried about ujoint failure and wanted to get rid of your tiny stub shaft, you could do a slip yoke eliminator on the kick case and bolt flange to flange...
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So what exactly is the issue you are facing here?
Vibration coming from the intermidate stub shaft.
I'm not to concerned about u-joint failure, just want the vibration gone. I'm looking at putting a cv or flex disc joint in its place.
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Just finished the "widening" part of the hagen widening mod. Put some Strutmaster springs in and some rust oleum hammered paint on the control arms. I used a 9/16 drill bit for the new holes and went 1 1/4" out. With hind sight, thats to much because the springs now rub on the bump stop. Here is a couple before and after shots
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Can you do this without making the little stub shafts?
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I really like your dual case setup, hope you get it to work 100% soon, I wan't to copy it 8)
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Can you do this without making the little stub shafts?
Already got it. I might make another though because I first made it to be the same length as a normal shaft.
I really like your dual case setup, hope you get it to work 100% soon, I wan't to copy it
Thanks. I'll be running it in Moab the way it is in 2 weeks. It works good other than a little vibration. After the trip I'll redesign the brackets starting from scratch if it doesn't go well.
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After doing the widening mod I had to try it out so I put the second t-case back in and it worked perfectly this time. Don't know why, but I'm glad. I didn't put the spacers on the cv axles and broke one at the beginning of the trail. So all those doing the widening mod consider yourself forewarned.
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How's it affected suspension?
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suspension is much softer, perfect in a word. My springs do rub a little on the bump-stop drops.
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Spaced out the CV shafts 5/8" on both sides and that made it last through Moab. I'm welded in the front, ran hell revenge, steel bender and Kane creek (part in the rain) and didn't break anything! Here is the pics of the spacers
Dual t-case was awesome!
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Extended the lower control arms for the rear axle 1/2" last night. Looks good.
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I've been running the dual t-case now for a few months. This is my daily driver and I commute 60 miles a day so it has been well tested. The Last major thing I did was pulled the modified t-case and sealed the inside with JB weld. It has stopped the leak!!! Vibration is very low and think its just coming from a bad rear u-joint. I split the sami t-case shifter lever so it will be easier to put a shifter boot on the floor.
I made several different shifter nobs for my dual t-cases but they just didn't turn out right. These Jefferson shifters turned out just how I wanted.
"I love it when a plan comes together"
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So I know you sold this (Ask me how I know) I was wondering about the front springs/ the reasoning behind switching from the stockers is more what I'm wondering about.
It looks like a nice rig, your fab skills are pretty damn good if I must say :)