ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: thcrw739 on December 17, 2007, 04:16:45 PM
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Is replacing the tie rods a big job?
I took my kick to the tire shop and wanted to get it aligned and they said the front and backs were so rusted they needed to heat them up to get the ajusters to move, & they said its the best they could get it aligned at after bringing it back a 2nd time...wich when driving it, you can feel its still not very good....
So, i figure after they get replaced its going to require another alignment..
But is this somthing i can do myself fairly fast & easy then drive it to the shop to get it aligned
I really dont want to spend the $350.00 the qouted me for replacing them if i can help it...
about half of that would be nice
Also as i forgot to ask them, do you think they ment the outer or both outter and inner tie rods?
Thanks
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It is a prety simple job.A Chiltons or Haynes manual will give an excellent set of directions.Just remember to do an eyeball alingment to get it good enough to get to the alingment shop.
Also it is just inner and outer tie rods,so I don't know what they meant by front and back.
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Well is there tie rods in the back?
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There are no tierods in the back.
You mentioned adjusters being rusted in your first post. Are you talking about your brakes? I ask because the drum brakes have adjusters and there is no logical connection between alignment and brake adjusters.
They may be pulling your chain at that repair shop - so beware!
Doing your own brake job is not so difficult if you are mechanically-inclined and have access to a Chiltons or Haynes manual. You can find one for check-out at most public libraries.
If you can deal with the generic aspect of a brake job description try downloading a Samurai FSM (or the portion that has the brake maintence section). The process described pretty much applies for the TracKick too.
http://www.acksfaq.com/fsm.php (http://www.acksfaq.com/fsm.php)
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No,
The were definintly talking about the tie rods & having to heat em up to loosen the ajusters wich if i understand go between the the inner and outter tie rod....
as for none in the backs, heck im not defending the tire shop since that was my first time |removethispart|@ anyplace around here... but maybe he mistakenly said front and back and ment left & Right or inner and outter?
To add.. I had em do a allover check because this was a recent purchased kick....
and they said all brakes were fine...
One more thing could they had been refering to the rear radius rods, seems that they might coinside with a 4 wheel alignment?
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What year is your kick?
If it is like my 91 model 4 door there is no rear end adjustment.The lower trailing arms are fixed,as is the upper diff mount,although it has a ball joint set up to allow it to function properly.
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There is no adjustment in the back.
They were most likly talking about the inner and outter tire rods. To check the tie rods lay down in front of you truck. from the center of your tirer, go down the back side until you come to a rod going into the center of your truck. That is the tie rod. You will see that you can rotate it a little becase of the joints at either end.
Push up and down on both ends. If you can feel any movement, you need to replace them. Replacing them should not be too hard. Plus, they have been heated up and broken loose already.
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I really hate to be the bearer of bad news, but when I replaced the outer tie rod end on my '92 4 door kick, I needed the acetylene torch to heat things up to get them off, AND TO GET THEM BACK ON!! When i took it to get aligned, they also had to heat it up to adjust it. If you have access to an acetylene torch, it really is easy to do. If not, you may be spending that $350. Be carefull if you do it yourself because the rubber brake line is pretty close to that area & it can be burned from the heat.
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If your tie rods and adjusters are that ceased up I would replace everything. The adjuster sleeves are available and they are not to expensive. Try out http://rockauto.com. Also check your drag link, the bar which goes between the idler arm and the Pittman arm. If you can rotate it, it's bad and will allow the toe in to wander. Dealer only for new and they're expensive, but may be able to find used. Many people on this board sell used parts just post in the wanted.
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No,
The were definintly talking about the tie rods & having to heat em up to loosen the ajusters wich if i understand go between the the inner and outter tie rod....
Once again, I have learned another new descriptive word.
I guess that you are talking about that long nut on the tierod that can be turned to lengthen or shorten the tierod in the same way that a turnbuckle works. Never heard of a turnbuckle?? I guess you need to be Circus people, like me. ;) Either that or a wrasslin' fan.
"A day that you do not learn something new is a day wasted" - Elmer Gunderson
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Well its a 1997 sport
It was way outta alighnment when i got it but i figured after buying a few used cars in the past thats just part of the mantience that i'd have to get done...
Never figured on bad tie rods, but as they said at the shop, now living in a |removethispart|@ winter time snowy chemical coated roads invirement they get rusted out and bad after wile and need to be replaced and they end up having to heat em up to get em to move...I guess in my case since they said they cant get it alighned good with out new ones.... and buying it from here , that would make sence
So they have to be heated to take off and on? dont have a torch hmmm...
Definitly a lot of play in the steering, gotta sorta fight to keep it strait even after 2 alighnments, not to mention the ruff ride...
Some of that could be contributed to the cosmetic balance i told em NOT to do but they did it anyway..(always have trouble with cosmetic balances not working right)
I guess they were just talking about outter and inner and not front and back...
I dont know iwhat the adjuster is called technicly but i think thats what they called it
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My advice won't help you much because even though i live in a very wet environment (seattle), my tie rods are still not at all rusty, and even though the adjuster was very hard to loosen, it still loosens up just fine and can rotate easily.
Changing out a tie rod is actually quite easy, if it's not all rusty like yours, but i'll run thru a quick explanation anyway of how i do it.
Now, what i do first is count, with a pick, the amount of threads that are showing from the tie rod to the adjuster before you loosen anything. When you go to put the new one in, is should have roughly the same amount of threads as the old one, so this way you can get the alignment back very close to where it was, so that at least you should be able to drive it to the shop to get a real alignment.
Loosen the adjuster (takes 5 seconds ;) ), then remove the pin and undo the crown nut from the tie rod you want to replace and use either a fork, or a one of those ball joint removal tools, and pop the joint out of place.
Unscrew the tie rod out of the adjuster, holding the adjuster in place, then install the new one. Set the joint end up in place, then make the necessary adjustments to get the amount of threads back to where it should be, and you're done.
I did this on a friends Jeep Cherokee to replace both inner and outer tie rods on both sides of the vehicle, and the alignment was so close when i was done that the alignment shop was wondering why he thought he needed an alignment. It sounds like i was making that up.
Over a year ago, i pulled the entire steering linkage setup out of a junkyard so that i'd have spares for everything, including the idler arm. It was less than $10 because they charge by the foot. I may sell it one day, as i haven't needed any spares, but this is a great idea for anyone that sees it in a junkyard as a "I may need this one day" type of purchase.
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Thanks for the advice
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I need to know one more thing, any help would be great...
after 2 weeks of looking for the best price on tie rod assembly, im unsure im looking at the right ones..
So places say 4wd & 2wd are diffrent, as in seprately listed, some places list drivers side and passengers side as diffent, as in seprately listed
& then a few listing's have them diffrent on years
then some places (wich is actully the best price) say that 1989-1998, 2wd or 4wd is the same fit
& one last thing are the ones on the sport diffrent than the regular kick?
Thanks for letting me bug,
Steve
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From my work on fords it was hit and miss on getting the right tie rod ends on the first try. I have not worked on many trackicks. I could see it possible to have different parts for left or right depending on the thread (left hand or right hand) but both sides adjust so I am not sure. I think your best bet would be to call the dealer and give them your vin number and ask for all the part numbers and prices you would need to fix everything (tie rods adjusters drag link....). You could then shop on prices with your list, most places should have a part interchange list.
j
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you can also smack the steering knuckle where the tie rod bolts through it with a hammer (not super hard as if youre trying to break it) while pushing up or pulling down on the tie rod, whichever is pulling it away from the knuckle and it should pop out. be careful not to dent it up too bad. youre not trying to re shape it.
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im chimin in, somtimes they are a nightmare to pull out of the knuckle, they sell a fork and a puller, just like the previos poster said somtimes you need to smack it on the end of the arm[ longatudinaly sp?]with either one having full tesion, i recently did a 6 inch on a 77 chevy and it took three of us to break it loose[ uncommon] its steel givr hell
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www.rock-auto.com has good prices on parts. I pretty much skip the local places for them now.
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Well according to that rock auto, if you compare the sport with the regular jx and so on comparing thier catalog listing meshurements and such its the same parts..
So these should work in theory right?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-1998-Tracker-Sidekick-Tie-Rod-Rods-Assembly_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQcategoryZ33583QQihZ009QQitemZ190064161886QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
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So these should work in theory right?
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-1998-Tracker-Sidekick-Tie-Rod-Rods-Assembly_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQcategoryZ33583QQihZ009QQitemZ190064161886QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V[/url]
YUP! thats them,
As I understand it the A arms in a sport are the same length as Calmini 3" A arms. Those tie rods should fit fine.
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So these should work in theory right?
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-1998-Tracker-Sidekick-Tie-Rod-Rods-Assembly_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQcategoryZ33583QQihZ009QQitemZ190064161886QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V[/url]
YUP! thats them,
As I understand it the A arms in a sport are the same length as Calmini 3" A arms. Those tie rods should fit fine.
Great,
Thats good news,
those were the ones i was leaning towards as they have all the pieces in one set for $40.00 were the other places you have to buy diffrent parts seprately and buy the time i buy 2 sets its close or over $200 for eveything...
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Here's a good one for ya...
Well before i finally did any job with the tie rods i decided after percision tires's deal wich is were this whole ordeal came from to get a 2nd opinon...
So i took it to altons tires and they said the tie rods were not bad it was the ball joints
Ok so at this point im thinking a 3rd opinon might be justified..
So i took it to les shwabs & they said after looking at it nothings wrong with anything they could find and just guessing its still out of allighnment... and they said i needed a bearing repack wich is another story...
To verify things with their alighnment guy, i had to make an apointment but tomorrow
i'll get the alighnment checked and they will test dirve it and such....
This just verifies never trust a mechanics first word....
Since im fairly new to the area, i havent had a chance to find a good mechanic as i havent needed any major work done, i guess i have to go threw these things
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You can check this stuff yourself.
Tie rods: first rotate them if they rotate easily they are getting loose. Second with a large pair of channel locks try to compress the tie rod. This is done by putting one jaw on top of the threaded stud and the other on the cap. If you are able to compress the tie rod it should be replaced.
Ball Joints: lift the tire off the ground by putting a jack under the A arm. Now put a pipe/crowbar/2X4/or whatever, under the tire and try to lift it. If the tire moves the ball joint is bad.
Drag Link: This is the bar which goes between the Idler arm and the Steering arm. This should not rotate. If you can rotate the bar so the tie rods move up and down it is bad and must be replaced. Even if everything else on the front end is good but the Drag Link rotates it will allow the toe in to change as your driving down the road.
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Turns out there really wasnt anything wrong with either tie rods or ball joints or anything
After taking it back to less shwab today for my appointment for a thourogh allinment check and such..
So final Cost me a $52 dollars allignment at a good shop that knew what they were doing and 3 weeks of stressing over wich parts and cheapest way of getting the work done...
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??? ok, well after all is done and nothing is suppose to be wrong with it...
The Steering still feels lose or sloppy, not near as bad as it did prior to the alignment,
But just not quite right.... seems hard to keep it straight for periods of time, not like its drifts real far off like an alignment problem... but like the steering is too lose, kinda like an chevy..
Is this normal?
I dont remember it being like that on my 93 jx 4 door i had years ago...
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Check the steering shaft, Have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth while you look under the hood. Sometimes the rag joints wear out if you have them on your truck.
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What would a bad rag joint do when your looking at it?
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Think of it as a soft u-joint. It's supposed to allow your steering shaft some angularity of movement while absorbing some of the road vibes instead of transmitting them up the steering column.
Then again a lot of makers never used them so their value is questionable.
A good rag joint will have some "squishiness" to it as you turn the steering wheel but won't fold over or have a very large amount of "give" to it.
The older GM trucks have these as well and I've heard of guys having them fall apart while wheeling due to age and rot.
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Once again,
Checked all nothing wrong...
Had it re checked at less shwab, nothing wrong..
I guess its just me getting use to the new, but i could sware that it didnt feel loose like that on my other sidekick..
Maybe its just a sport model thing?