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Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.

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Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« on: December 15, 2011, 03:49:15 PM »
 I am a fairly new owner of an '88 Samurai, and a novice gear head.  It's mostly stock except for mudders and a moderate lift (I haven't seen the vehicle for months now so I can't really tell you just how big of lift).  I am going to be towing my Samurai some 750 miles behind a U-haul and after that for frequent much shorter trips behind a motorhome.  I am aware that the recommended procedure for flat towing is T-case in neutral and trani in 2nd(maybe 4th), hubs and steering unlocked. Is that all correct so far?  I figured I would disconnect the rear drive shaft for the long haul also.

Ok, so here's where my main question comes in:
I have been reading lots of people's comments and am getting a little confused.  I am wondering if flat towing a lifted Samurai is a bad thing?  Some people are talking about the exaggerated angle of "something" maybe the front drive shaft?  I am not clear what is bad for it, if I disconnect the rear drive shaft if that fixes the problems, and also if short trips w/ all intact is still bad for it.  Could you help, and maybe use simple language, as I am learning about all this stuff.  Thanks!

PS. One more question: I assumed I would have to use a raised receiver hitch on the tow vehicle so that the tow bar is more level.  I also saw that someone had a curved tow bar that could be flipped depending on which vehicle sat higher, has anyone heard of this?  Any recommendations? 
88' Samurai JX

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Offline Merlin93

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 05:14:51 PM »
There's a HUGE amount of information and discussion accumulated over the years about flat-towing.  Some time with the search function, here and elsewhere, will reward you with the best advice.  In a nutshell:
1) The stock Samurai transfer case leaves 4WD engaged when in neutral, thus spinning the front driveshaft, already at a steeper angle and steeper still with a lift, through the rear driveshaft. NOT GOOD! The front driveshaft is intended for low-speed 4WD operation only.  If you break the front U-joint (steeper angles=more stress) at speed on the Interstate it can do a lot of damage.  You'll never detect a problem beginning to occur from your towing vehicle. I've unknowingly towed bad wheel bearings for hundreds of miles -- live and learn, and pay.
2) The towbar should be level or slope down to the towed vehicle.  I use a 4-inch drop receiver on the motorhome, upside down, to raise the towbar to keep it level when towing one of mine.  
3) The absolute safest way to tow a Zuk is to remove or disconnect the rear driveshaft (at the differential) and wire/tie it up. That will work for your long trip.  When you get there, you can easily reconnect and implement your flat-towing solution for your motorhome.  

My Zuk has a small 2-3 inch lift on 29" tires. My towbar has come up to now being level, so I'd need to do something different with more lift or larger tires. Suzuki recommends 2nd gear and T-case Neutral, but I now use twin-sticks (true 2WD neutral) and 4th gear.  When I once left the shifter in 2WD-High for 60 miles it saved the engine.  To get some splash lubrication, I start and run the Zuk in gear and T-case Neutral for 5 minutes, before pulling out while towing. On a long tow day, I'll sometimes run it again later while gassing up or taking a break.

Edit: To re-state the towbar angle issue, the mounting point height for the towed must be lower or equal with the mounting point on the towing vehicle. A curved towbar does not accomplish this.  I suspect, without knowing, that the reason is to keep the towed from overriding the towing vehicle during sudden deceleration.  If true, a towbar curved in the vertical axis does nothing to solve this need. I got all my tow gear from Blue Ox (the towing company), and their representatives were quite insistent on this requirement.  There's some additional good information on their website. I have too much at risk to argue with the professionals. 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 06:42:08 PM by Merlin93 »

Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 05:50:21 PM »
Thank you for your helpful response.  I am trying to be safer than sorry.  So, is driving at highway speeds while the front drive shaft is engaged/spinning a bad thing no matter how far it's towed because of the vibration?  Would I be ok leaving it in 2wd and the trani in neutral?  I am a little tired, so humor me if I am talking about suicide with that last sentence.

I may be doing this often possibly, so if you have a suggestion besides a twin stick (of which I'll look into once I'm moved).

And you said you would have to do something different if your zuk had a bigger lift/tires, what would you do different that I might need to consider?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 06:37:57 PM by Zoraidamae »
88' Samurai JX

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Offline my996duc1

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1987 Tintop / 1.6 16V ps & ac / 6.4 t-case Twisted TT / 4.30 R&P Hybrid rear / Double Tough axles / Shrockworks all around / ARB f&r / Mighty Kong & TT full skid / DS disconnect / CV shafts f & r / YJ missing links f & r / Petroworks tintop cage / 15 gal Tank / 31" x 12.50 Pro Comps

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Offline my996duc1

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 10:38:24 PM »
"Trail Tough has what you are looking for = http://trailtough.com/"

Thanks, one would think you work for Trail Tough.  ;)


Nope, but that would be cool.
They just happen to be the only company that makes/sells these parts (atleast that I know of).
And I just happen to have these three on my Sami.

The tow bar is really nice as it is held together with pins and can be easily take apart and broken down for easy storage.


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« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 10:41:14 PM by my996duc1 »
1987 Tintop / 1.6 16V ps & ac / 6.4 t-case Twisted TT / 4.30 R&P Hybrid rear / Double Tough axles / Shrockworks all around / ARB f&r / Mighty Kong & TT full skid / DS disconnect / CV shafts f & r / YJ missing links f & r / Petroworks tintop cage / 15 gal Tank / 31" x 12.50 Pro Comps

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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 10:57:41 PM »
Just pull your rear drive shaft out (forget what gear it is in) or rent a trailer NOT a tow dolly.
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

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Offline talonxracer

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 06:03:51 AM »
It takes very little effort to remove the driveshaft, 4 nut's and bolts and a bungi cord to hold the driveshaft up and away from the pavement.
Tim "the toolman" Taylor is my HERO !!!

The only GOOD Commie is the commie taking a dirt nap....

Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2011, 08:55:18 AM »
Thanks mrfuelish and talonxracer, I will just do that each time then. No big deal.

 
Just pull your rear drive shaft out (forget what gear it is in) or rent a trailer NOT a tow dolly.

Why not a tow dolly?
88' Samurai JX

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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 01:49:06 PM »
because if you do not pull the rear drive shaft and put the transfer case in neutral the front drive shaft will still turn. The rear wheels are still on the ground unless you put the rig on it backwards.
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 08:17:14 AM »
because if you do not pull the rear drive shaft and put the transfer case in neutral the front drive shaft will still turn. The rear wheels are still on the ground unless you put the rig on it backwards.

right right, it would only be helpful if I didn't get a tow bar installed by that time.  Thanks.

One more question: I have a custom heavy duty bumper on my rig that has a 2' receiver hitch receptacle.  My question is if there is something that works with that rather than getting a standard tow bar??  I attached a picture of an example of what mine resembles (this is not my zuk), without the d-rings.  Thanks for all your input so far.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 08:43:06 AM by Zoraidamae »
88' Samurai JX

Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 09:42:41 AM »
How much does the trail tough tow bar drop to become level with the tow vehicle? Will it drop it low enough that I wouldn't need to raise the ball hitch?

The tow bar is curved for towing a lifted Sami.
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=163&category_id=16&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53_
88' Samurai JX

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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 09:52:24 AM »
I would just install a regular tow bar,mine only has two half inch bolts holding the bar to the front end,you can drill holes or add some angle iron to the bottom of yours and drill them, p.s. don't back up while towing with a tow bar. and mine towed better when I had the front wheels locked straight ahead when driving in town pulling in driveways, the front is so lite i did not even notice any difference except the front tires did not freak out going into driveways.
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

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Offline weldboy

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 05:31:10 PM »
To stop the front wheels from going crazy just hook a bungee cord to the bottom of your seat and run it through your steering wheel and back down to the seat. It will keep enough tension on the wheel to keep it from going crazy. Been doing it fot 20+ yrs. now, without a problem. ;D

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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 05:38:45 PM »
to hold the steering wheel I started out using a fan belt and shutting the door on it and then seat belts when they came out and now I just use a key !
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

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Offline my996duc1

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Re: Question about flat towing a lifted Samurai.
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 06:59:47 PM »
How much does the trail tough tow bar drop to become level with the tow vehicle? Will it drop it low enough that I wouldn't need to raise the ball hitch?

Here is a pic of mine. As it sits in the picture, the tow bar is 24" from the ground where it attaches to my Shrockworks bumper(bottom edge of bar to the ground). The ball coupler is sitting at 17 3/4" (measured from the bottom edge to the ground).

For an exact measurement of the drop I would call Trail Tough and ask. They have always been super helpful over the phone (even when not placing an order).



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1987 Tintop / 1.6 16V ps & ac / 6.4 t-case Twisted TT / 4.30 R&P Hybrid rear / Double Tough axles / Shrockworks all around / ARB f&r / Mighty Kong & TT full skid / DS disconnect / CV shafts f & r / YJ missing links f & r / Petroworks tintop cage / 15 gal Tank / 31" x 12.50 Pro Comps