No mine is tight!!!! and solid
- Steering play is like new.pwer steering too!
- All suspension bushing near 0 play..within factory specs

Too bad the body isn't as good as the mechanicals are now....

Zag

The joys of projects....

- Trying to get access to a lathe to build the underdrive pulley, what a PITA, can't afford the
  $60-$75 hr the machine shops are charging and my machinist buddy went to Germany for 2
  month.

- Working out the lowering mods is also becoming a chore, I want more drop and more travel
  than anyone appears to have done before....i really want about 2"-3" of actual suspension
  drop, but I want at least stock travel. Shortening the strut shafts to keep them from
  bottoming is not a problem, but the front geometery is, may have to make new lowers or a
  similar mod...but I will figure it out.

     I now completely understand why you guys are going up instead of down...it's easier! On a different vein, as I dig into the suspension design and geometery the Sidekick is more impressive than I used to think. It's solid and robust (comparatively), and the geometery in the rear and the basic design is very similar to the live axle Alfa Romeos, the front is fairly good by small car standards, no wonder they handle so well for a little 4X4!

The more I work on these little tanks the more I like them...

Zag

I agree that the stock geometry is dang good. The 3-link rear is well setup (needs some tweaks when lifting, but takes 2" without much walkunder).

I still say the best "budget" drop would be ...

1) Increase the track width. This will lower the front (dunno how much). The increase in track width cause greater forces on the stock springs causing them to compress. You keep the same travel (stock has 2" extra up).

2) Cut rear springs. This will lower it and also increase the spring rate.

Cost of this is minimal (might need 2" BS 15x7 wheels), will lower it, and should stiffen the rear.

Another thing to consider to lower the COG, is to drop the front frame (aka do the reverse of the frame mods done for project rockstar). This would lower the entire front end (including the engine). A 2" front drop would maintain the front geometry (which IMO is fairly stiff), lower the COG, and then just have to play with the rear (e.g. spring cut).

Hey Snofalls

     Gonna try the front track increase, doesn't matter if it lowers it I want to reduce the understeer and widening the track helps with that. I will let you know if it helps lower it though.
     I really don't want to start choppin the frame if I can help it, this is supposed to be an easy cheap,  project (ya right)

I'll try to keep everyone posted on what works.

Zag

zag,

Take a look at the frame lowering thing ... I know cutting into the frame sounds daunting, but it's VERY cheapo 2" lowering that also brings down the COG.

The front C is already welded to the rear frame. Notch out at that point enuf to lower the front C 2". The front body mounts will need 2" spacers, but the brakes, steering etc will all still reach (all the 2" body lifts prove that). The tcase mount will need a drop too, but that shouldn't be to big a fab issue (aka drop/flip the mounts on the frame).

I'll take a look when I bring it in the shop next.....i was trying to make this an easy copy for anewbie though....but I keep and open mind.

Zag

Zag may I suggest that you do all your performance mods before swapping the diff ratios. Keeping the 5.38's which are hard to find may not be a bad thing as I would suggest a small drop in top speed for the gains in acceleration may be a good trade off. If you find that you need to eventually go to 5.12's then there will be plenty of takers for the swap. Another reason is that if you do want to do some trail running then more ground clearance is desirable so having a second set of say 235/75R15 muddies will be a nice simple swap and the 5.38's will be more desirable, trust me.

When you talk about dropping it with respect to the sills maybe you should be thinking more in terms of with measuring with respect to the chassis as that is your real ground clearance and is more relevant to your CoG due to its inherent weight. Calmini had a lowering kit using a drop control arm kit and replacement rear springs. You can see it  here http://www.hawksuzukiparts.com/  They also do the front and rear sway bar kit to give you an idea on sizing. The stock rubber on these rigs is 27.1" and you're talking about going to 25.4" which is 1.6" difference and will only lower it by 0.8".

On the suspension front FYI when I first lifted mine I used the Old Man Emu kit and actually handled and rode better than stock. It's amazing what the right spring rates and valving will do for handling even when lifted. As you've said you want to change these maybe do your sway bars first and then see what you've got before doing the next mods. Also have a think about a strut brace to tighten up your front end.

Oh yeah, you could pick up a strut brace of a wrecked Sport that could be modified to fit. An LSD wouldn't be a bad item to put on your shopping list down the track for the type of use you're talking about.

The one problem I see is that the setups for slalom/tarmac and for dirt/gravel rallying are quite different in their requirements and maybe by using different swaybars and or disconnects and adjustable shocks you can tune to some degree for this. Just thinking out aloud. Even hunting around for some old 6" or 7" rims for different rubber for each purpose. I know it all costs but the differences could be worth the effort. Possibly even some on here who might have things you want that deals could be done with for your intakes or spacers etc.

By the way do you have Lada 4x4's up there? Once considered using the t-case from one (probably the best part of the car) as they are divorced and center output but would need a little clocking, in a dual t-case setup. The high ratio would have compensated nicely for 32"-33" rubber and would have ended up with fulltime 4x4 and would have used a couple of solenoids for high /low and locked/unlocked. Put that with your 4.6's or or even some 4.3's and you would have a fulltime 4x4 with the right high range gearing and great low range choices ( 2.3 + 1.8 ) for crawling 

Over here Suzuki sold a lowered version of the Track/Kick. The Fatboy was around 2" lower and had 10" wide alloys, drove like a go-kart, lol. The springs still come up on ebay from time to time but I think CJ is right, you should do the sway bars first, that will have a big effect on what spring ratings you need. The camber correction bolts can be used to restore the front geometry. Increasing the track makes a big difference, mine understeered horribly with the 2" lift and no sway bar. 1 1/2" wheel spacers brought it back to near stock

Rhinoman/CJ

     Thanks I really appreciate the input........

     The suspension and gearing will stay stock until all the performance modifications are done to the engine, I really need to keep them consistant to get good results on the engine changes.
    CJ, I use the rocker measurement because its an easy one to take. I'm working with one of the local ProRally guys from the CarClub I used to be with on the suspension mods and the lowest point clearance from the chassis is targeted at 6" whick translates to 8"-9" at the rocker.
    Surprisingly the ProRally cars do real well here in the Slalom series. A big chunck of it is driving style....you have to be alot more agressive with the higher stiffer suspensions and you have to be what we used to call a bit of a butcher (like to get the vehicle all bent out of shape and sliding) as opposed to the real low sticky cars that reward a verey precise style. Seeing as I used to have a rep of being a real butcher I think we will do ok. I will have a seperate set of tires for Slalom (P195-50-15's, already have a good used set).
     Also, I'm not worried about the ground clearnace for two reasons
1) The kind of trial stuff I do is pretty mild compared to you guys
2) I'm going to Armor the bottom of this thing like a tank, front to rear

     The reason I will eventually swap to the 5.12's is to keep the same effective gearing as the 5.38's with the shorter tires....ProRally is closed course like they do in Europe and I will need the speed.
     Strut brace is a really good idea and I have been thinking of making one, possibly tied to the cage like we used to do with road racers.
     Sway bars I'm building will be adjustable, and auxillary that adds to the front and the rear will work off the control arms. Thats for the tips to check out sizing though.

Rhinoman
     Thats for the tip on the FatBoy, we never got that one here and I appreciate the input on the spacers...nice to know I'm on the right track.

The limited slip is just not in the budget for now but it sure would be nice.

Thanks again for all the input guys I really appreciate it.

When it's all done and I've run a season I'll probly be back to find out how to lift and get serious about off road....us old guys get bored easy.

Zag

     Yes we have Lada's here, they are getting rare but are still around and that t/c does look interesting.
     

what is a lada?

Lada........

     Russian built version of FIAT vehicles
- Lada 1500S was a Russian copy of a Fiat 125
- Lada Niva was a 4X4 based on a Fiat military vehicle.
  Little bigger than a SideKick with a 1500 SOHC, 5spd
  16" wheels......body and suspension built like a tank.
  Engine and Trans.....sucks and can't get parts easy
  anymore........apparently very capable off road when
  they were running.

Zag

Zag unless you guys got something really different I think you probably meant 124 not 127. It was a Fiat design originally in 1966 I think. A lot of the same stuff went into the Niva and guys used to pull the original engine and replace it with a Fiat twincam for more go. Yeah, agricultural is the way to describe them and I think the main tool to carry was a hammer. Good heating though for those cold Russian winters but they certainly were not a fine piece of automotive engineering  The heated rear window was to keep your hands warm when pushing them  Like I said about the only good part is the t-case which is actually pretty rugged and reliable and has been used in all sorts of rigs. With a couple of switches to operate solenoids for the high/low and lock/unlock it wouldn't be a bad way to get fulltime 4wd and some more gearing. I've seen them here for $100-150 Pacific Pesos and can still pick up parts for them. Even found someone who was selling brand new t-cases.

All the lowered Kicks I've heard of seem to have a 2" drop so that seems pretty standard and seeing as Suzuki did the same drop in the UK I would suppose that would be a good starting point. Looking forward to seeing it progress. Something to look at is improving the uptravel in the front as it is quite limited at the moment and there is room in both in the strut and cv angle to cope with it and as you are going to run small rubber it will still be able to stuff in there.

Hi CJ
     Actually I meant the Fiat 125, it was a model they didn't export...in effect a 124 with a big trunk...all the mechanical swaps. Guy here in Edmonton has one that has a 2.0L Twin Cam with twin 45DCOE Webers and all the trick Fiat/Abarth engine and suspension goodies. The only thing that makes you look is the 15" BBS wheels. He even kept all the Lada emblems.
     Scares the snot right outta the Ricer kids...they can't believe that got hammered by a Lada.
LMAO

     I appreciate what you're saying about the suspension travel, I'm trying to maintain at least stock up and down....but first I have to lick my wounds as I damaged the engine in the airplane tonite...got the details on another post.

A slightly depressed

Zag

Oooops

     Hey CJ, I dig screw up my Fiat designations...I should've said 125 (124 with a big trunk) not 127 (Little FWD beast). I corrected my posts.

Sorry

Zag