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HELP! Missing 16v

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Offline bentparts

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HELP! Missing 16v
« on: April 03, 2008, 03:59:12 PM »
Did a second compression check on the Tracker today after finding out I had done the first one incorrectly. The good news is it's over 190 lbs on all 4. The bad news is , I managed to screw up the plug wires putting it back together, and when I went to start I got several LOUD backfires. Got out the manual, corrected the plug wires, and it starts, but misses on #3. It's getting spark, checked all the wires , plugs etc, all was good. Still missing, like it's not firing on one cylinder. Checked the timing and it was Advanced like 25 degrees! OK, I thought the belt jumped or somthing. Pulled everything apart, and the timing belt seems to be lined up fine.  My FSM has me confused on a couple of issues, one being the the distributor timing. I wanted to check if the dizzy jumped time, or broke a gear, or somthing went out of wack, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to set it correctly. If the cam and timing belt marks are lined up, where should the dizzy be pointing? #1, #4?  Any help on this would be really appreciated.
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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 05:18:54 PM »
If the timming belt jumped time, there would probally be very evident damage to the belt, not to mention a few bent valves. Probally wouldn't run at all or very rough. Might have poped a hole in the piston when it backfired, pull the dipstick with its running and if there is oil blowing out or a lot of air or smoke comming out that is probally it (unless your engine is worn out, then it would do it also). I would change the spark plugs out first though, because more than likely the isulator on number three is cracked shorting it out causing it not to fire. These are just a few things among many that can go wrong. Good luck.

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2008, 04:47:43 AM »
Cam and timing belt marks should be lined up with no. 4 at TDC. You can see if its at TDC by checking the rocker movement through the oil filler cap.
Did you have the jumper in the diagnostic plug to fix the timing to base settings?
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2008, 04:50:47 AM »
Cam and timing belt marks should be lined up with no. 4 at TDC. You might be able to see if its at TDC by checking the rocker movement through the oil filler cap.
Did you have the jumper in the diagnostic plug to fix the timing to base settings?
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline bentparts

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2008, 09:19:43 AM »
OK, Thanks Rhinoman. Now my FSM , the factory GM manual, says line the cam and timing marks up to #1 TDC. When I checked everything that's where it was. I tried putting the spark plug wires back on according to the same FSM, and it has 2 different wiring diagrams! Now I'm totally confused, at least last night it started but ran poorly,m now sit wont start at all.  It used to run great the way it was, now I think I killed it, or at least injured it. Do you have any idea how the spark plug wires should be routed into the distributor on a 16v? If you look at the top of the dizzy, and imagine top left, top right, bottom left and bottom right, which cylinder wire goes where ? AND if mine is timed to #1 TDC, and it ran great before the comp test, what the heck did I do to it?  and, BTW the jumper is in the diagnostic plug.
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Offline lostsamurai

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2008, 09:26:25 AM »
check #3 wire the boots tear esily when pullin them sometimes its real hard to see, it will arc out inside the valve cover, also make sure your setting up your dizzy 1324 counter clockwise NOT clockwise like the owners manuel says
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Offline bentparts

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2008, 10:39:35 AM »
Checked all the plug wires inside and out, 3x, all ok. Tried wiring it 1324 counter clockwise, got a fart out of it, that's all. Timing belt looked fine, no damage or evidence of it jumping. I followed the FSM to the letter in checking the cam timing, Re-setting the distributor ( according to the FSM, #1 cylinder to TDC compression stroke, measured with comp tester, set dist rotor to #1,) which I did, which according to FSM is upper right on dist. At this point I'm pretty stumped. 
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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2008, 11:43:00 AM »
It's possible that you are now 180 degrees out of time now, The piston hits TDC on the exhaust stroke also. With the valve cover off, #1 plug out, turn engine over by hand until #1 hits TDC and exhaust and intake valves are closed, distributor should be pointing at #1 plug wire on tower. You can use a long skinny screwdriver in the spark plug hole to see when the piston has reached TDC.

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Offline bentparts

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2008, 01:06:22 PM »
Got it running again, but it's still sounds like it's missing. I've tried the plug wires every way described on this forum and Zuwarri's. So far I've done a bunch of searches and have come up with plug wiring sceneros of four different ways. My stupid FSM shows the firing order and distributor turning clockwise! That's backwards! Ive also tried turning the disty 180 degrees, no joy. I'm now thinking at this point I may be 1or 2 teeth off on the dizzy. It does start and idle fine, just sounds like it's not firing on one cylinder. Also with the timing lite on it, and the jumper in the diagnostic plug, it's still advanced. I'll keep trying. Thanks everyone for your input.
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Offline Uncivilized

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2008, 02:42:19 PM »
So far I've done a bunch of searches and have come up with plug wiring sceneros of four different ways. My stupid FSM shows the firing order and distributor turning clockwise!
My friend's FSM had this too. I also noticed the cam gear has 2 letter "E's" for markers... of course we lined it up to the wrong one, so we thought crank & cam were matched, but really weren't.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 12:41:11 PM by Uncivilized »

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Offline bentparts

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2008, 04:01:24 PM »
Even if I had the cam timing off, How is it that it ran perfect before I messed up the plug wires?  If it ran that good, and it does, with the cam timing off, I'm keeping it that way for sure. I did check the cam timing very carefully  several times, and it didn't jump form the time I replaced the belt 25k ago. I can get it to start and idle, and the motor will build rpm, just sluggishly. It will load up the plugs if I do run it too long. I've rechecked the compression, good across the board so I dont think I bent anything or holed a piston during my attempts to get it running. Now I'm beggining to regret never fixing my CEL, the bulb shook loose and fell out, never put it back in. So checking the codes may be a problem. I just may have to fix that now. I'm still not convinced that the plug wires are correct, I've seen 4 different ways to route it so far. Anyone out there got a 95/96 16v TracKick they could take a look at and clue me in? I'm beggining to think the problem isn't just ignition related, and I may have toasted some sensor or the ecm. I even pulled the turbo out of it and put the header back in, no difference.
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Offline Element

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2008, 04:30:56 PM »
I have a 97 4dr, is there anything I can do to help? Want pics, just let me know...
Jerry                                                               Member since:   May 14, 2006


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Offline bentparts

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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2008, 07:31:35 PM »
Thanks Jerry, A look at how your plugs are wired would be great, but I think they may have changed them in 96? If you could take a look at  the order they go into the dist cap that would be great. THANKS!
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Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2008, 10:00:13 PM »
My haynes book shows the 16v engine firing order is 1-3-4-2.  The distributor shows it rotates counter-clockwise and the #1 plug attaches to the distributor on the lug closest to the passenger fender.  I took a quick pic with my camera phone.

Re: HELP! Missing 16v
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2008, 04:54:47 AM »
Didn't notice that you had a turbo, bad news, the backfire probally bent or broke one or more of the vanes. This would also explain the sluggish acceleration of the motor.